orangeandblack5 wrote:Edit: Update 1.5 has been announced, and it looks like a pretty great step in the right direction. I will not change the name of this thread, but it looks like BMG is making strides in good directions balance-wise, and the new programmers will help accelerate the process even more. Should be awesome.
It's back baby!
Welcome to the new, improved, and re-purposed Town of Salem 1.5 thread (previously known as Town of Salem 2.0).
This was, surprisingly, kicked off by something that Mroz4k said in a random thread not long ago. Spoiler:
Mroz4k wrote:Lets come up with a series of changes to the most troublesome parts of the game, ones that we all will agree upon, and push them as a change together.
I am not talking about another Town of Salem V.2 - nothing on that scale. I am thinking about sitting down, figuring out what are the biggest problems with the game right now, and try to make simple adjustments that would eradicate it with huge emphasis on not over-buffing/over-nerfing the allignment (which was the biggest problem of the Town of Salem V.2).
Here are my thoughts on things that need changing the most:
Easily confirmable roles = preferable removal of ability to "confirm" for most of them, others ability to confirm themselves in some sort of nerfed form: Mayor, Retributionist, ressurected Town, Veteran, Spy, Vigilante.
Needed buff for Disguiser, Framer, Forger
increase to win rate of Neutral Killings (collective or individual buffs)
new, better Ranked rolelist, in consideration of these other changes
changes to Vampire and Vampire Hunter
So, here's the basic idea. This is a compilation of the best, most popular, and most agreed-upon suggestions in the ToS community. They are all things that most players have agreed need to be done, and sooner rather than later. It will be a much smaller list than the original ToS 2.0 thread was, but it will also be much less debatable, because everything in this list has already been debated to death and everything here has been mostly agreed upon. This should hopefully result in less fighting and more pushing the devs to fix the largest holes in the game right now. Now, with all that said, here's the list:
Spy Changes: Spoiler:-Remove ability to read Mafia night chat -Remove ability to read whispers once dead -[Maybe] Now has three night actions that let it read whispers on the next day Blackmailer Changes: Spoiler:-Can read whispers Framer Changes: Spoiler:-Now makes framed targets appear with the Mafia Killing role to Lookouts -Now makes any Mafia visits to the framed target not show up to Spy (including Framer), and makes the framed target's visit show up to the Spy -Now can frame Mafia members show up as Not Suspicious to a Sheriff and as Framed to Investigator -[Maybe] Can now change apparent cause of death of the framed target via moon button, priority Vig>BG>GF/Maf>Jailor>SK>Arso>Jester>WW>Vet (priority debatable) Disguiser Changes: Spoiler:-On first disguise, the Disguiser´s Last Will is displayed (acts as a forge, but uses the Disguiser's actual last will). -On second disguise, the first victim´s Last Will is displayed. -On third disguise, the second victim´s Last Will is displayed. -Upon death, the most recent victim's Last Will is displayed (only way the third victim's Last Will will be displayed). Doctor Changes: Spoiler:-Healed targets of attacks now show up as immune to the attacker Lookout Changes: Spoiler:-Now a Town Protective role Bodyguard Changes: Spoiler:-Can only kill Werewolf when its target is attacked, not when its target visits the Werewolf's target Vigilante Changes: Spoiler:-Death Note Removed -Cannot shoot revealed Mayor unless controlled or target is transported (need to figure out how to make this work with Vampire) Veteran Changes: Spoiler:-Death Note Removed Jailor Changes: Spoiler:-Death Note Removed -Number of executions reduced to 2 (and/or some other nerf, because holy crap this thing is OP) Arsonist Changes: Spoiler:-Douses now give no feedback notification -Dousing an undoused target now extends the draw detector by one night -Now makes doused targets "smell like gas" to an Investigator, effectively framing them as an Arsonist -Now detectable by Sheriff Sheriff Changes: Spoiler:-Can now detect Arsonist -Can now detect Werewolf on non-full moons -Can now detect Vampires -Can now not detect framed Mafia members -Or scrap all of the above changes and make it an alignment detector Amnesiac Changes: Spoiler:-Can now remember as Godfather or Mafioso if no other Mafia roles are dead -Doing so with only one Mafia Killing role alive makes you the other one, regardless of which one you remembered (if the only living MK role is GF you become a Mafioso and vice-versa) -Doing so with both Mafia Killing roles alive rolls you a Random Mafia role (if both a GF and a Mafioso are alive you roll a new Mafia role) -No longer gives a Town-wide notification upon remembering a role Transporter Changes: Spoiler:-No longer gives feedback notifications -Can no longer transport Jester guilt Executioner Changes: Spoiler:-Can now have Spy as its target -Can no longer have any Town Power role as its target -Now loses night immunity after hanging its target -Town must now kill it to win (the game cannot end in Town victory if an Executioner is alive) Forger Changes: Spoiler:-Forged Will can now be edited during the day or nights when you haven't picked anybody -Forges carry over into the next day and affect lynched targets Godfather Changes: Spoiler:-Can choose which Mafia member is promoted next via buttons in the Mafia box Werewolf Changes: Spoiler:-Now detectable by Sheriff on non-full moon nights -Still cannot kill on Night 1, no matter what -Always kills visitors on full moon nights OR can kill on non-full moon nights if it didn't kill 2+ people the night before OR can kill every night, but killing 2+ people removes its kill for the next night Witch Changes: Spoiler:-Can now control people that have left but are not yet dead Alignment Changes: Spoiler:-Town Power added (Ret, Mayor, Jailor) -Neutral Benign changed to Neutral Unaligned -Neutral Chaos removed OR restricted to Chaos game modes -Lookout is now Town Protective Jester Changes: Spoiler:-Now Neutral Unaligned Investigator Changes: Spoiler:-Change Investigator Results List to:
Framer, Vampire (Framed Targets)
Escort, Consort
Spy, Vampire Hunter, Blackmailer
Mayor, Jailor, Retributionist
Vigilante, Bodyguard, Mafioso
Investigator, Consigliere, Amnesiac
Lookout, Forger, Witch
Doctor, Disguiser, Serial Killer
Sheriff, Transporter, Godfather, Executioner
Medium, Janitor, Jester
Veteran, Survivor, Werewolf
Arsonist (Doused Targets)
Role-list Changes: Spoiler:
Town Power
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Support
Town Protective
Town Killing
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Godfather
Mafioso
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Killing
Neutral Evil
Mayor Changes: Spoiler:-Can now be healed by Doctors (buffed so it can be part of Town Power) Retributionist Changes: Spoiler:-Self-revives if killed without reviving anybody (buffed so it can be part of Town Power)
The other option is to nerf the Ret so it dies when it revives somebody and not make it a part of the Town Power grouping. However, this would require a reshuffle of the Investigator results list and warrant the addition of a new Town Power role. Vampire and Vampire Hunter Changes: Spoiler:-See here: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=33899&p=1011786#p1011786 Gamemode Changes: Spoiler:-New gamemode "Chaotic Custom", which is an exact copy of Custom but in the Chaos section and will host all of the crazy games
If you don't understand any of these suggestions, feel free to ask for clarification. If I goofed and forgot something, let me know!
http://i.imgur.com/v1cxcDw.png If you want a copy of the official Town of Salem 1.5 banner in your signature, just copy and paste this into your signature!
I laughed so hard because 94% of this isn't in the 1.5 patch. Change the name of this thread so that no one is confused, please. 'cause almost none of these ideas are in the 1.5 patch
Why the fuck did you quote the OP and then not read the first part of the thing you quoted?
Spoiler:I'm probably just going to lurk forever, posting occasionally But if there ever comes a point where my account speaks its last Know that it was a pleasure to be here, especially in Forum Games During my teenage years, this place was my first real community Thank you all so much for playing silly games with me I'll never forget you
I laughed so hard because 94% of this isn't in the 1.5 patch. Change the name of this thread so that no one is confused, please. 'cause almost none of these ideas are in the 1.5 patch[/quote]
Good, because I read through them and they are all HORRIBLE suggestions. The game is way better as it is. Its already annoying that in the new patch vampires can kill mafia.. Vampires are way too overpowered anyways, because theres 4 of them and they can just "make" new members.. Very unbalanced when they start killing the mafia. ANd mayor not being able to whisper? THat just makes the whole role useless..
And those suggestions in the first post, as I said, completely horrible.. No vigi death note to explain why he shot? Retri dying? Having to lynch exe? The game exists, and works great, and has worked great for a long time. DOnt go changing something that works to something that doesnt.
I hope the changes the person listed will stay as ideas and not come to the actual game.
The game doesn't "work great", it's fundamentally flawed in many places
Spoiler:I'm probably just going to lurk forever, posting occasionally But if there ever comes a point where my account speaks its last Know that it was a pleasure to be here, especially in Forum Games During my teenage years, this place was my first real community Thank you all so much for playing silly games with me I'll never forget you
The game is horrible now. It is so swingy. These suggestions would make the game less swingy, while balancing it. I do not get that most people voted that they like Town Power, but nearly everyone who I talk to says that they hate the idea.
I would appreciate not having to make a Town Power slot, but it would be the easiest way to balance Mayor, Jailor, and Retributionist combos right now.
Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.
that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.
ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.
Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
orangeandblack5 wrote:WW/Witch/Lookout needs a Mafia role tbh
Werewolf needs more cover than that. Just replace him with Mafia.
Oh and about the rest of psychos results: Bodygaurd needs less pressure Vigilante or veteran are guaranteed in every game you can't just put both of them with a non confirmed Mafia role
I have become what i despise, a man who despises himself.
Yeah, I'll probably make some changes to all of my threads either as soon as I don't have to stay up past midnighg every night doing homework or the weekend after next (next weekend is potentially the busiest one of my life).
And when my computer is fixed.
So yeah, stuff'll happen. School needs to calm down first though.
Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.
that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.
ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.
Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
Your target has dirty hands. They are either a Bodyguard, Jester, Mafioso, or the Werewolf.
Your target smells like gas. They are either a Framer, Vampire, or Arsonist!
2nd one I'm absolutely sure needs to happen. Adds an NK role to framer (buff).
Also Arsonist isn't a complete 50/50 if investigated n1. Putting Arsonist with Framer literally only helps both
I think that having both mafioso and werewolf makes this insufficient cover. It's more like a desperate attempt than an actuall solution to me. As for the second one it's nice claimspace wise but it means arsonist will get the frame dousing. This will severely weaken all investigatives as it conceals the players actual role. I don't feel like this should be a thing.
orangeandblack5 wrote:Yeah, I'll probably make some changes to all of my threads either as soon as I don't have to stay up past midnighg every night doing homework or the weekend after next (next weekend is potentially the busiest one of my life).
And when my computer is fixed.
So yeah, stuff'll happen. School needs to calm down first though.
So you are in high school? Must be hard balanching stuff out. Can't wait for the updates though.
I have become what i despise, a man who despises himself.
Got four AP classses, Chemistry (which is notoriously hard at our school), and Spanish 4. Leaving band as my only easy class.
I'm also in Key Club, Crew (Rowing), Robotics, Boy Scouts, and Science Club, so there goes all of the rest of my time (including weekends ;().
So yeah, lots of homework (and club/team stuff). At least I get a leg up on the AP Tests in that I won't be taking the SAT with the rest of my class (opting out), giving me extra time to study.
Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.
that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.
ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.
Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
Don't change Benign to Unaligned because, why exactly? Oh yeah, just because you want to.
Jester needs to stay in the Neutral Evil alignment, because it could directly harm the Town, and causes death, which the Neutral Benign alignment never should involve.
jadensr wrote:Jester needs to stay in the Neutral Evil alignment, because it could directly harm the Town, and causes death, which the Neutral Benign alignment never should involve.
But why
Spoiler:I'm probably just going to lurk forever, posting occasionally But if there ever comes a point where my account speaks its last Know that it was a pleasure to be here, especially in Forum Games During my teenage years, this place was my first real community Thank you all so much for playing silly games with me I'll never forget you
It can also directly harm evils, and in fact killing one Mafia/Neutral helps the Town a lot more than killing a Town member harms it.
Also it's now Neutral Unaligned here because some people literally will not stop bitching about Jester killing people makes it unfit for Neutral Benign, but it's no problem to them if it's Neutral Unaligned (weird, I know). If I sound really salty about this issue, I am.
Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.
that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.
ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.
Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
orangeandblack5 wrote:It can also directly harm evils, and in fact killing one Mafia/Neutral helps the Town a lot more than killing a Town member harms it.
Also it's now Neutral Unaligned here because some people literally will not stop bitching about Jester killing people makes it unfit for Neutral Benign, but it's no problem to them if it's Neutral Unaligned (weird, I know). If I sound really salty about this issue, I am.
what if we keep it neutral evil and have it randomly select a town guilty voter ? if there is none the jester will not kill because neutrals have no honor or regrets and the mafia are fanaticalls only believing in their goal so they woulnt feel guilty enough to suicide for 'ynching a jester
I have become what i despise, a man who despises himself.