Osservatore (Mafia Support)

[Sman808]

It is never stated that you cannot visit your fellow Mafia members, so I don't see why that would be assumed. But I will add this anyways.

No other random mafia can without transporter/witch, so that is why.

[orangeandblack5]

That's because they generally do harmful things to their targets. It's an anti-trolling measure.

[Skulomania]

Although i do wish the framer had the ability to target mafia to 'frame them as town'.

[Nellyfox]

It is never stated that you cannot visit your fellow Mafia members, so I don't see why that would be assumed. But I will add this anyways.

Because with the current game mechanics no mafia can visit each other.

[BPsycho2]

Framer should be able to visit his fellow mafia members and frame them.

Just because if you're claiming outside of your results, you can cover it up, and fool the Spy while you're at it.

[randomguyhavingfun]

It is never stated that you cannot visit your fellow Mafia members, so I don't see why that would be assumed. But I will add this anyways.

Because with the current game mechanics no mafia can visit each other.

Framer and consort should be able to do that though

[orangeandblack5]

I wouldn't be against letting any Mafia member visit another

[YamiChan]

I like the idea of the Mafia having a role kind of like this. There are some issues with this one, however.

-The name. It's kind of terrible. I'd rather we just stick with Tracker or how about Snoop?
-Being able to see who a player visits is fine. I don't think they should also see who visits the player and be able to visit their own teammates. The second ability would make the Mafia WAY to OP, especially when paired with a Consig.
-Hearing whispers is also too OP, especially since the BMer can already do that.
-What does it mean to ignore detection immunity?

[HereThereEverywhere]

Osservatore is bad, but Snoop is good? I think Osservatore fits into the Mafia, seeing as they already have Consigliere. Snoop would seem out of place imo. Tracker is meh, but I usually imagine it as a Town role.

Hearing whispers is too OP because Blackmailer does it?

How would this make Mafia too OP? Mafia roles should be a bit stronger than Town roles, because Mafia members are a lot lower in numbers compared to Town. That's why Consig gets the actual result and not X/Y/Z.

Visiting their own people should be an ability of most/all Mafia roles.

[YamiChan]

"Osservatore" is a word that does not even seem to exist when you search for that, it doesn't fit with the game, and who wants to type that out? A role's name should also give you at least some idea what it does.

Yes. There doesn't need to be two Mafia roles that read spoilers.

Mafia roles do not need to be THAT strong.

Mafia should not be able to visit their own.

[YamiChan]

Godfather and Consierge both sound common enough.

The last thing we need is to remove more roles.@_@ And the ability to read whispers along with all its other abilities is still too much.

Why should they be able to? For one thing, it would make gamethrowing Mafia that much more unbearable. It can also render Spies and Transporters useless, along with other roles.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Osservatore is what, Italian for Observer? Gee, I wonder what THAT does? Consigliere is okay and this isn't?

The night actions shouldn't actually go through on your fellow Mafia. It would just show you visiting. The only ones that would go through are Forges/Cleans when they actually die. One reason they're good is because as GF/Mafioso, you can target your own to shoot a Transporter who keeps transporting them.

Spies should be removed or replaced. It doesn't make Transporters useless. You have to actually know they're just transporting one Mafia member. This would lead to Transporters NOT doing that, which means if they want to transport Mafia, they'll have to be careful about it. Trans is really strong anyway.

[orangeandblack5]

Plug "Osservatore" into Google Translate

Jeez

Also Blackmailer would (obviously) lose the ability to read whispers - the Osservatore gets that power instead.

[YamiChan]

Everything about it is too much, and I've said why.

[HereThereEverywhere]

I assume you're talking about Mafia being able to visit other Mafia, right?

For one, it wouldn't do anything for gamethrowing. Make it so Mafia visiting other Mafia doesn't do anything, other than show up to lookouts and Spies.

As for ruining Spy, it should be replaced anyway. As Spy, if you just survive to lategame and write down every Mafia visit, you basically know who is and isn't Mafia. That's just too easy, and takes no skill. It's only other abilities ruin communication for scum completely.

As for Transporter, it's already too powerful anyway. It's basically a TP role, but it's a TS instead, and it's instantly confirmable. Making it a little weaker by allowing Mafia to target each other isn't a real nerf at all. Besides, Trans would only be effected if they're just transporting one Mafia member over and over again with themselves, which is unfair to Mafia anyway.

[orangeandblack5]

Everything about it is too much, and I've said why.

No, you just said it was too much.

Food for thought: what advantage is there for the Blackmailer to read whispers instead of a not-as-good Consigliere-type role?

None. But there are advantages to the opposite being true, most notably allowing a semi-decent Investigative claim because it can investigate things, and allowing the whisper-reading Mafia Support role to also use its night ability without giving itself away.

[YamiChan]

No, I'm saying that EVERYTHING about it is too much. The basic idea of a Mafia role that can see who a player visits is good, but too much is added on. It doesn't need all those other abilities.

The odds of a Spy living that long aren't great, and the odds of them being certain who isn't Mafia decrease when Mafia doesn't have the Any, RM is a role that does not visit much or at all, and with the existence of a Trans or Witch.

The Transporter is NOT overpowered. I've said this so many times. They mess up results and all other actions. They can get themselves or Townies killed. They are chaos.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Transporters are chaos in the hands of bad players. A good transporter doesn't transport without a reason. If they're transporting every night, they're most likely doing so randomly and thus aren't all that good at the role.

Spy is just a bad role in general, and should be replaced/removed.

Now I'm just thinking about Kirize's second to last post about this role really. Good points.

Kirize is a part-time ninja.

[YamiChan]

If they're not transporting, then they can easily be killed. They are far from overpowered.

Spy is a fine role. It has been weakened a lot by recent changes, but it's still a fine role.

[YamiChan]

What do you mean, why am I not transporting?

It's been weakened severely, and you're getting off-topic.

[YamiChan]

You're not making any sense...

[destruction5033]

This role is good but why make it read whispers instead of the bmer? It's one of the worst roles with out this ability and this role is one of the best with it.

[orangeandblack5]

Met, as per usual, brings up some valid points.

I say go through with it and if necessary nerf it. Both TP roles are really good and most Mafia roles are pretty bad, so.

[YamiChan]

I didn't, though...

Any Mafia role reading whispers is a pain, because it just makes it so no one bothers whispering, making the ability pointless. This was already close to the case once they weakened the Mayor.

Why not just stick with the role's basic ability and leave it at that?

[HereThereEverywhere]

Whispering doesn't happen in the games I play. Not because of the fear that a Blackmailer exists, but because "Whispering is suspicious"
If the whisper notification were removed, I can guarantee it would happen more often.