mibbels3476 wrote:you should just increase the amount of people in lobbies to 17 or 18 to fit all role needs
mibbels3476 wrote:you should just increase the amount of people in lobbies to 17 or 18 to fit all role needs
mibbels3476 wrote:you should just increase the amount of people to 17 or 18 to fit all role needs
mibbels3476 wrote:no coments on that idea
orangeandblack5 wrote:This isn't a patch
It's a suggestion (really a few)
Responses in bold.xlspongebob wrote:Reasons for disagreement: The whole point of the Spy is to be the ultimate counter to the Mafia, and taking away the ability to read chat at night would severely weaken it.(If one of the night actions is reading Maf chat or making a new role that can read night chat, then this is perfectly fine.) Having any Town role be able to read the Mafia chat destroys the Mafia's ability to play tactically. This absolutely wrecks game balance at higher levels of play. Without the Mafia even being able to formulate a plan, they will always be cripplingly underpowered. If healed targets show up immune then all immune roles can easily claim to be immune when attacked, resulting in the Town auto-lynching someone that claims to be healed which would cause many Townies to be lynched (If that is the point of this change, then it makes sense.) That is the point, and that is how the game used to work. It won't be good cover, but it puts some heat on the Doctor, which is sorely needed right now. Deathnotes are crucial for the TK since it allows them to communicate with Town while remaining anonymous. Also, Town wouldn't know why the Jailor executed someone, or why a Vig shot someone so randomly. It also lets the TK roles instantly confirm themselves as Town. This is very much not needed for roles that are already very powerful on their own. It just destroys balance and removes important claimspace. WW being detectable by Sheriff on all nights makes it even more difficult for WW to win since both Invest and Sheriff can find him. You'll also note that I buffed Werewolf. By a lot, actually. Sheriff also really needs a buff. People need feedback for Trans because it will cause massive confusion, same for Amne. Then Transporter needs to play smarter. There is no reason to make it instaconfirmable just so idiot Transporters have a safety net. Not seeing if you're doused also makes it harder for Arso to get caught by Lookout. Lookout is already really powerful, and Arso is a weak but sneaky NK.Speaking of which, why is the Lookout becoming Protective? The Protectives prevent people from dying, the Lookout only watches them and gathers information by seeing who visited, like an Investigative should. (If Lookout gains the ability to save people, then this makes sense.) Letting Lookout protect people would be overpowered. This is here to nerf Town Protective as an alignmemt, make power roles think before revealing (a Lookout won't save them, and most people are too selfish to care about the fact that their death and the resulting lynch of their killer will result in a huge boon for their faction. I am honestly confused on some of the changes for the Spy, but if the Spy can still read whispers whether by default or choice, then he can still easily prove himself. Don't worry, he can't that easily. Blackmailer can now read whispers too. I would also completely support removing Spy. If Exe must be killed for Town to win, then Invest will call someone out if seen as possible Exe, making it harder for an already difficult role to win. Executioner is one of the easiest roles in the game. Plus, the Town should be calling out evil roles. That isn't a problem. The point of the WW is to less often than other killers, but have the ability to massacre people. Therefore, punishing the WW for multi-killing in any circumstance goes against its purpose. I'm not punishing it for multi-killing??? I'm definitely all for the WW killing visitors on Full Moons automatically though. Jester is DEFINITELY evil. He deceives everyone, and kills whomever he wants if he wins. So basically it has to follow a specific strategy and if it succeeds gets to help whichever side it wants. Pretty sure that sounds like a NB that actually requires skill to win. That, and it just doesn't feel right knowing that the Jester, Survivor, and Amne will be in the same allignment. Why not? The roles are all extremely similar. Also, I personally think Jailor is fine the way it is, since "good" Jailors are rare, and most of the time Jailor has no clue or dies early. Jailor is only OP if the player is advanced, but that can go with almost any role. Jailor is a Vigilante, an Escort, and a Doctor all rolled into one, instantly confirmable, and part of an already overpowered alignment. It needs a nerfbat to bring it to the same power level as the Retributionist and the Mayor (which are both getting buffs).
These are all just my opinions, and I may seem to be negative towards this patch, but I really am looking forward to it. Especially with the new and improved Mafia roles. >:D
Question, why isn't Medium getting any balances/buffs? I don't think its weak, but most of the community certainly does.
Suggestion for buff for Med: If the Medium is killed night one, the "Medium's Curse" will strike on the killer, causing them to die. (It would be great to see a community lore/myth actually become part of the game ) Medium is fine. It needs no change. If you die Night 1, too bad. So can almost every role.
orangeandblack5 wrote:No offense, but that is a string of some very ill-informed arguments (in my opinion).
First off, nobody was ever excited for Vampire or Vampire Hunter. We all knew months in advance that they would be "annoying, broken, and unbalanced". Neither role's core concept has ever been pulled off well by any other Mafia game before, and sure enough Town of Salem was not able to bypass the inherent problems in these concepts.
Secondarily, you're putting petty details above game balance. If you step back from Jester for a second and look at how it functions within the game compared to Survivor/Amnesiac and the Witch (the only good NE right now), you'll see that it is near-identical to the Surv/Amne and drastically different from the Witch. The NE category needs roles that are decidedly anti-Town to function well, and the NB category is for roles that have to succeed at their own seperate goal and can win with anybody. Jester does this. Who cares if it "directly kills" one person? Since when is that not allowed? Because Survivor and Amnesiac can both do worse.
Also, arguing that the informed minority shouldn't be able to plan or communicate is something I'm not going to spend time responding to (I'm a busy person). If you want my full response to this I can get back to you in two and a half weeks when school ends (and likely not before). Otherwise, please read Elastoid's topic on the subject.
Gotdeathstar wrote:Well it's nice to be appreciated, thanks. Also, I'm glad you like some of my ideas. Some thoughts on your thoughts:
1. I shudder to think what sort of buffs the Mayor would need to be anywhere near the Jailor as the 'power' role in an environment where you have to wait to confirm Maf roles before whispering. Couple vests and a gun? Also the Vet thing is a nice strategy but it just equates to 'talking to' a non-Maf name in Maf chat now - it's such obvious bait that only the inexperienced will fall for it.
3. My point was that if LO swaps over to TP it will be the only TP without some sort of self-protection. It could be argued that getting extra info on the non-killing visits is an extra buff that replaces the protection, but I think having to reveal and make the town listen to your claims balances that out. Meh, either way.
5. I have to admit, I haven't read the rules in detail, but I assume you're talking about people leaving D1 as Medium. I was talking more about people that die early as Med and don't stick around for the seance (frowned on but not rulebreaking?). From what I gather, BMG is looking at Medium already, so I thought I'd throw out a couple of ideas.
6. Jester is more of a personal thing for me, It's just a massively enjoyable role. Again, if there's anyway to compromise between the Jester ethos and game balance (i.e. nerf/change the punishment), I'm in. Jester will be perfectly fine, just needs to be neutral benign
Ok possible Jester idea - Ability: 'Get yourself lynched to vote from the graveyard' Goal : 'Get lynched and see the town lose' (need to do both to win).
If you revert your Exe to the original 'leaves town/dies' idea this might work out. Exe wastes 1 lynch, kills a town and leaves (removing a swing vote - so all good), Jester wastes 1 lynch and stays as an untouchable anti-town vote. Both are innately evil, neither kill 'directly', lore crusaders are (possibly?) happy and there's some debatable level of balance. If it's too OP, limit the number of votes to 3 or something.
It would also liven up the graveyard play a bit. Townies would have to really be careful about who they flame after getting lynched, and could squeeze an after-death advantage by 'jesting the jester'.
This is just off the top of my head, so its probably badly thought out and has a few holes.
Pls no. just Neutral Benign.
7. I thought that town-wide alert sounded familiar. Nice catch!
Don't really know what you're getting at with the Ret comment - are people claiming it's balanced in its current state? In need of buffing?
Kirize12 wrote:I came up with a fix for Jester (actually Invenio did but w/e):
Jester roleblocks all the people who voted to get it on trial instead of killing.
Also, Jester should only be able to haunt (or roleblock) the people who voted to get it on trial, rather than the guilty voters.
Kirize12 wrote:I came up with a fix for Jester (actually Invenio did but w/e):
Jester roleblocks all the people who voted to get it on trial instead of killing.
Also, Jester should only be able to haunt (or roleblock) the people who voted to get it on trial, rather than the guilty voters.
Kirize12 wrote:JammySplodge wrote:Kirize12 wrote:I came up with a fix for Jester (actually Invenio did but w/e):
Jester roleblocks all the people who voted to get it on trial instead of killing.
Also, Jester should only be able to haunt (or roleblock) the people who voted to get it on trial, rather than the guilty voters.
That would make Town more likely to vote up a Jester claim, all that happens is that the night is skipped
That's not a punishment, it just gives the Town more discussion time
That's pretty major. (._. )
Do you not understand how taxing a roleblock is?
Frostwolf103 wrote:I agree about Disguiser changes because in my opinion this is how disguiser is meant to be played like this, not as Disguiser (pretended to be dead) has victim's last will with his/her name written becomes instant death sentence.
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