The Executioner's Curse

[Randyxpxp]

This is something I’ve wanted to make a post about for some time now. I’ve posted on the ToS forums and Reddit before (Randyxpxp on the forums and Randy_333 on Reddit), including strategy threads on vampires, Classic All Any, and NK. I like to play Classic AA, so that’s my main area of interest. Executioner is one of my favorite roles, my second favorite role behind serial killer. Like many players, I enjoy the ability to watch the chaos unfold and wreak havoc myself without regard for whether I live or die, as once an exe has lynched its target, it wins regardless of whether it survives. I love to observe as town meets its doom and night killers such as mafia, vigilantes, and serial killers occasionally try in vain to murder me. However, as I’ve played exe over time, I feel like I have a bit of a curse on me. This curse doesn’t usually come in the form of jailors who execute me after I lynch my target or arsonists who randomly ignite me, but in the form of werewolves who, in virtually every case of this kind, have mauled me the very night after my exe win, even after I’ve clearly lynched a town and explicitly claimed exe. Although in the past I sometimes didn’t claim exe after my win, I usually now claim exe every time so that evils know I’m exe and don’t waste attacks on me. Even if someone doesn’t claim exe, if they post an invest or LO will that turns out to be fake or they claim sheriff but their target is town (notwithstanding disguisers), they’re probably an exe. I would prefer to live, and I would usually prefer town to lose, but I don’t need to live to win. It’s just a preference, and I let evils know I’m exe so they can calculate their target priorities.

However, for some stupid reason, at least about five times now, even though it is clear I’m an executioner and I’ve already won, the werewolf decides it’s a good idea to waste an entire full moon on a single exe. Let’s just consider the stupidity of this strategy for a moment. Not only can the executioner side with the werewolf, but the executioner can also itself become suspected of being the werewolf, and in any case, the exe is one of the only roles that a werewolf doesn’t need dead for the werewolf to win. They need to kill town, mafia, vampires, and other NK. One of the NKs, the arsonist, can even kill the werewolf, and in an exe game I just played tonight, that’s exactly what happened to the werewolf. Yet time and time again, even though I’ve already won and in most cases made it clear I’m an exe, they maul anyway.

To be clear, on every single one of these occasions, I wasn’t randomly pushing people during the day, trying to get the werewolf lynched, being deliberately annoying, or anything like that. All I did was get my target lynched, claim exe, and they maul me. It’s like I have a curse, and they’re compelled to maul me for some idiotic reason. Then, every single time this has happened, the werewolf ends up getting lynched or killed, and loses, while I win. There has even been at least one occasion on which I spoke to a medium from the dead and got them to lynch the werewolf. It’s so clear to me that, generally speaking, mauling an executioner is just about the worst possible strategy a werewolf can employ. There are so many other better targets, targets the werewolf needs dead, targets like consiglieres and vampires and vigilantes and sheriffs, etc. etc. etc. Yet time and time again, these absolute idiots don’t use their damn brains, and as a result fail to understand the likely benefits that they can gain from leaving the exe be. Now, of course, the exe could also turn against them (or the exe could even be fake), but the fact of the matter is the werewolf can potentially use the exe, the werewolf doesn’t need the exe dead to win, the exe can be suspected of being a werewolf or another evil, and, in the first place, the exe might be lynched or executed just for being an executioner, which means the werewolf is not lynched that day or executed that night. There are so many obvious reasons why it’s a bad play to maul an executioner like that.

I’ve also seen mafia and SKs that try to kill me at night at some point after I’ve won and claimed exe, and in these cases as well, I’ve sided against the faction who tried to kill me and have usually orchestrated their demise, even giving town the win when I could have easily sided against town. There have been other occasions when my target has been resurrected and I’ve explicitly asked evils not to kill them, and rather than listen to me, they kill my target. In retaliation, I side against them, and end up getting them lynched or killed. So because of all this nonsense, I’ve decided to make a post about why it’s unwise and dangerous for evils to attack or otherwise antagonize executioners, and, furthermore, how evils can effectively take advantage of the existence of an executioner. This especially applies to executioners who’ve said they will side with evils, or who have otherwise not given any indication they will side with town, but it generally applies to normal executioners.

Reasons for evils to not attack or otherwise antagonize executioners:

1. The executioner may be lynched instead of you.
2. The executioner may be executed instead of you.
3. The executioner may be shot instead of you.
4. The executioner may be bitten instead of you.
5. The executioner may be stabbed, mauled, or ignited instead of you.
6. The executioner may be investigated instead of you.
7. The executioner may be suspected of being evil, even your role specifically.
8. The executioner may side with you.
9. The executioner can be used as a distraction.
10. The executioner wins with evils, and is not needed dead for any evils to win.

Guidelines for using executioners as evil:

1. Do not waste an attack on the executioner. If there is evidence the executioner is fake and may be an enemy such as town, mafia, or NK, you may reconsider this. But generally, it is a waste of time to attack the executioner, and may even result in them siding against you.
2. If someone appears to be an executioner, vote their target, and this will be likely to put you in their favor. They will be more likely to side with you later. Even a single innocent vote on an executioner’s target may turn them against you or your faction. Lynching town as evil is also generally beneficial for them, regardless of the exe.
3. If someone has pushed to get a town lynched and claimed exe, do not push to lynch this person just because you attacked them and they have defense. Occasionally, evils will fake exe, but more often than not, an evil who fakes exe will not go through the trouble of pushing to lynch a town, getting them lynched, and then claiming exe. If you try to get an executioner lynched just because you weren’t able to kill them at night, this may very well come back to haunt you, as you may have been able to use their vote against a more dangerous opponent, such as an SK, a werewolf, or an arsonist. The exe may even claim they were attacked and use that as evidence against you. They have no obligation whatsoever to side with you or benefit you in any way.
4. If you are a consigliere or witch, do not call out an exe as an exe, and do not vote innocent on their target. If anything, you can simply abstain. I have actually seen a witch find me N1 before and push for my VH target to be voted innocent. When my target was then killed at night, the witch pushed to lynch me and I haunted them for being stupid.
5. If you find yourself in a kingmake situation, in which the executioner is the deciding vote, do not under any circumstances piss the exe off. This includes voting against or attacking the exe, or otherwise insulting them or doing some dumb shit that’s liable to piss them off. If they say they’re siding with a certain faction, it’s probably in your interest to claim to be a member of that faction to get their vote.

In conclusion, don’t be daft and waste your time on executioners as evil. You’re more than likely going to end up screwing yourself over in the end. This can also apply to town, who often lynch or execute an executioner when, on occasion, the exe could have won it for town, and was effectively town’s only hope. It’s an especially bad idea generally for town to lynch an executioner in late game when several town are already dead and there are still killers on the loose. This just gives evils another night to operate freely. For you werewolves out there who have a thing for mauling executioners, you have the entire night after the exe’s win to pick your target, and determine whether they could be an actual exe. If they pushed to get a town lynched, voted guilty, and claimed exe, they’re probably an exe, and if you attack them, you’re probably wasting your time and harming your own chances.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

I don't think you should have made this long post, I literally read the first 5 sentences and knew what you wanted. You are playing in ranked practice or all any, don't expect people to be smart there. Expect the worst, so if you really hate it you can try playing ranked; it will change your way of looking at Neutral killings and mafia roles forever.

Actually on second hand don't play ranked; you wont like it.

[UzayAltay]

Spoiler:

This is something I’ve wanted to make a post about for some time now. I’ve posted on the ToS forums and Reddit before (Randyxpxp on the forums and Randy_333 on Reddit), including strategy threads on vampires, Classic All Any, and NK. I like to play Classic AA, so that’s my main area of interest. Executioner is one of my favorite roles, my second favorite role behind serial killer. Like many players, I enjoy the ability to watch the chaos unfold and wreak havoc myself without regard for whether I live or die, as once an exe has lynched its target, it wins regardless of whether it survives. I love to observe as town meets its doom and night killers such as mafia, vigilantes, and serial killers occasionally try in vain to murder me. However, as I’ve played exe over time, I feel like I have a bit of a curse on me. This curse doesn’t usually come in the form of jailors who execute me after I lynch my target or arsonists who randomly ignite me, but in the form of werewolves who, in virtually every case of this kind, have mauled me the very night after my exe win, even after I’ve clearly lynched a town and explicitly claimed exe. Although in the past I sometimes didn’t claim exe after my win, I usually now claim exe every time so that evils know I’m exe and don’t waste attacks on me. Even if someone doesn’t claim exe, if they post an invest or LO will that turns out to be fake or they claim sheriff but their target is town (notwithstanding disguisers), they’re probably an exe. I would prefer to live, and I would usually prefer town to lose, but I don’t need to live to win. It’s just a preference, and I let evils know I’m exe so they can calculate their target priorities.

However, for some stupid reason, at least about five times now, even though it is clear I’m an executioner and I’ve already won, the werewolf decides it’s a good idea to waste an entire full moon on a single exe. Let’s just consider the stupidity of this strategy for a moment. Not only can the executioner side with the werewolf, but the executioner can also itself become suspected of being the werewolf, and in any case, the exe is one of the only roles that a werewolf doesn’t need dead for the werewolf to win. They need to kill town, mafia, vampires, and other NK. One of the NKs, the arsonist, can even kill the werewolf, and in an exe game I just played tonight, that’s exactly what happened to the werewolf. Yet time and time again, even though I’ve already won and in most cases made it clear I’m an exe, they maul anyway.

To be clear, on every single one of these occasions, I wasn’t randomly pushing people during the day, trying to get the werewolf lynched, being deliberately annoying, or anything like that. All I did was get my target lynched, claim exe, and they maul me. It’s like I have a curse, and they’re compelled to maul me for some idiotic reason. Then, every single time this has happened, the werewolf ends up getting lynched or killed, and loses, while I win. There has even been at least one occasion on which I spoke to a medium from the dead and got them to lynch the werewolf. It’s so clear to me that, generally speaking, mauling an executioner is just about the worst possible strategy a werewolf can employ. There are so many other better targets, targets the werewolf needs dead, targets like consiglieres and vampires and vigilantes and sheriffs, etc. etc. etc. Yet time and time again, these absolute idiots don’t use their damn brains, and as a result fail to understand the likely benefits that they can gain from leaving the exe be. Now, of course, the exe could also turn against them (or the exe could even be fake), but the fact of the matter is the werewolf can potentially use the exe, the werewolf doesn’t need the exe dead to win, the exe can be suspected of being a werewolf or another evil, and, in the first place, the exe might be lynched or executed just for being an executioner, which means the werewolf is not lynched that day or executed that night. There are so many obvious reasons why it’s a bad play to maul an executioner like that.

I’ve also seen mafia and SKs that try to kill me at night at some point after I’ve won and claimed exe, and in these cases as well, I’ve sided against the faction who tried to kill me and have usually orchestrated their demise, even giving town the win when I could have easily sided against town. There have been other occasions when my target has been resurrected and I’ve explicitly asked evils not to kill them, and rather than listen to me, they kill my target. In retaliation, I side against them, and end up getting them lynched or killed. So because of all this nonsense, I’ve decided to make a post about why it’s unwise and dangerous for evils to attack or otherwise antagonize executioners, and, furthermore, how evils can effectively take advantage of the existence of an executioner. This especially applies to executioners who’ve said they will side with evils, or who have otherwise not given any indication they will side with town, but it generally applies to normal executioners.

Reasons for evils to not attack or otherwise antagonize executioners:

1. The executioner may be lynched instead of you.
2. The executioner may be executed instead of you.
3. The executioner may be shot instead of you.
4. The executioner may be bitten instead of you.
5. The executioner may be stabbed, mauled, or ignited instead of you.
6. The executioner may be investigated instead of you.
7. The executioner may be suspected of being evil, even your role specifically.
8. The executioner may side with you.
9. The executioner can be used as a distraction.
10. The executioner wins with evils, and is not needed dead for any evils to win.

Guidelines for using executioners as evil:

1. Do not waste an attack on the executioner. If there is evidence the executioner is fake and may be an enemy such as town, mafia, or NK, you may reconsider this. But generally, it is a waste of time to attack the executioner, and may even result in them siding against you.
2. If someone appears to be an executioner, vote their target, and this will be likely to put you in their favor. They will be more likely to side with you later. Even a single innocent vote on an executioner’s target may turn them against you or your faction. Lynching town as evil is also generally beneficial for them, regardless of the exe.
3. If someone has pushed to get a town lynched and claimed exe, do not push to lynch this person just because you attacked them and they have defense. Occasionally, evils will fake exe, but more often than not, an evil who fakes exe will not go through the trouble of pushing to lynch a town, getting them lynched, and then claiming exe. If you try to get an executioner lynched just because you weren’t able to kill them at night, this may very well come back to haunt you, as you may have been able to use their vote against a more dangerous opponent, such as an SK, a werewolf, or an arsonist. The exe may even claim they were attacked and use that as evidence against you. They have no obligation whatsoever to side with you or benefit you in any way.
4. If you are a consigliere or witch, do not call out an exe as an exe, and do not vote innocent on their target unless it is clear the target will be voted innocent and you do not want to appear suspicious. I have actually seen a witch find me N1 before and push for my VH target to be voted innocent. When my target was then killed at night, the witch pushed to lynch me and I haunted them for being stupid.
5. If you find yourself in a kingmake situation, in which the executioner is the deciding vote, do not under any circumstances piss the exe off. This includes voting against or attacking the exe, or otherwise insulting them or doing some dumb shit that’s liable to piss them off. If they say they’re siding with a certain faction, it’s probably in your interest to claim to be a member of that faction to get their vote.

In conclusion, don’t be daft and waste your time on executioners as evil. You’re more than likely going to end up screwing yourself over in the end. This can also apply to town, who often lynch or execute an executioner when, on occasion, the exe could have won it for town, and was effectively town’s only hope. It’s an especially bad idea generally for town to lynch an executioner in late game when several town are already dead and there are still killers on the loose. This just gives evils another night to operate freely. For you werewolves out there who have a thing for mauling executioners, you have the entire night after the exe’s win to pick your target, and determine whether they could be an actual exe. If they pushed to get a town lynched, voted guilty, and claimed exe, they’re probably an exe, and if you attack them, you’re probably wasting your time and harming your own chances.

At The old times when You can kill Jailor with attacking The one who Jailed , This was A legit strategy .
My assumation is people who Watch old games or read All Guides Do that , without realizing it fails .
Another thing I saw is people who think Exe Will be visited due they are confirmed evil , which is bad Logic .
A funnier thing I saw is WW attacking exe thinking " they Can be Mafia "
You are completely right on This not being viable , due it help town and harms You . In All situations , an exe alive is better Than A town alive for WW .


Also Another Note : If You know there is an exe as Maf/NK , helping them at their job is Also A good strategy .

[Randyxpxp]

I don't think you should have made this long post, I literally read the first 5 sentences and knew what you wanted. You are playing in ranked practice or all any, don't expect people to be smart there. Expect the worst, so if you really hate it you can try playing ranked; it will change your way of looking at Neutral killings and mafia roles forever.

Actually on second hand don't play ranked; you wont like it.

I don't like Ranked, yes. I know the prevalence of new players is higher in All Any, but I still prefer it to Ranked. I also think the kind of target selection I described is fairly obvious, but that's why I wrote this post, because despite being fairly obvious, a lot of players still target executioners and end up screwing themselves over in the process, while the exe still gets their win whether they live or die.

[GrumpyGoomba]

k