TOS RULES GUIDE

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TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Meandrina » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:55 pm

Update: June 5, 2020: The rules guide will no longer be updated. It's companion the Juror guide is being made public and will current instead. Please use this link to obtain that document. http://bit.do/Juror-Guide or direct link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14cR ... sp=sharing




http://bit.do/ToS-Rules If that is not working for you, here is a direct link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F-n ... sp=sharing

A brand new guide of the game rules has just been released! It's been in the works for over 2 months and was a collaboration between the trial system and GMods, even BMG gave some input. It includes not only the rules, but a bit about the reporting system and how to appeal.

it's pretty important if you want to keep yourself from getting suspended ;)

Be sure to spread this link around to all your friends that play this game and all Discord servers that associate with this game (but be sure not to spam it) and be sure to read it through.

Dates of updates, see details in the doc's change log:
July 1, 2018
Sept 30, 2018
Nov 15, 2018
Jan. 21, 2019
Aug 24, 2019
June 5, 2020






~~~~~~~~
A sidenote from me...
PLEASE stop using whatever report reason you want. Reporting for the wrong reason actually slows down the report from being judged. The higher the report reason does NOT mean the faster the report is viewed. Hate speech/harassment does NOT mean you hate what the player is doing.

Edit: change of wording from "new rules guide" to "new guide of the game rules" so that people don't mistake this as new rules.
Last edited by Meandrina on Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:31 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:39 am

Meandrina wrote:A sidenote from me...
PLEASE stop using whatever report reason you want. Reporting for the wrong reason actually slows down the report from being judged. The higher the report reason does NOT mean the faster the report is viewed. Hate speech/harassment does NOT mean you hate what the player is doing.


I kind of want to second this particular bit. Yesterday, I worked on about 180 reports in the Trial System and about 10-20% of those reports were reported under the wrong reason, which really just means it takes LONGER for reports to get handled, since we have to go out of our way to duplicate those reports for the right reason, meaning I could have done about 20-30 reports more in the same timespan if they'd all been reported for the correct reason.

Gamethrowing is -not- Hatespeech/Harassment.
Speaking another language is -not- Hatespeech/Harassment.
Two (or more) people with similar ingame names doesn't automatically mean they're cheating, only report when they have info they shouldn't be able to have OR if they admit to cheating specifically.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Shakira123 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:35 am

New rules and you wanna announce this in a forum post.

Hahahahahaha.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Jackparrot » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:52 am

Very nice! hard work put in i can see. Why not replace the offical rules with these?
I am not as active as I used to be, although I should be somewhat active.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Shakira123 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:07 am

According to these rules my guilty report last week (https://www.blankmediagames.com/Trial/v ... id=1373817) is a clear innocent.

Yet Naru himself guiltied it and judges defended the decision.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Meandrina » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:06 am

@bleachkid: Literally says the definition is the second sentenece you quoted. Confirmed town is not "game confirmed," which is thrown about lossely. Confirmed town for trials is an absolute. If the NK is being voted up, then there is some evidence against them, or if they are on trial and out during their defense; this is acceptable.
No matter how the rules are written there will always be some that disagree. The wording was very carefully used, which is why the guide took so long to create. This wording was chosen to be the most comprehensive and most easy to read for speakers of other languages. Also, no matter how things are written, there will always be someone that tries to find loopholes. The guide is an effort to educate those players who wish to be educated, for those people who don't know what the ins and outs of the rules are. Let's face it, the rules on the BMG website are quite vague; this was an effort to assist players. We could have simply kept these cloaked in darkness instead of trying to get the word out.

@Jackparrot: Thanks, it is being worked on. Shape said he would bring it up to the rest of the BMG team. If/when they ALL approve, he can officially decree them and maybe add it to the website or some other venue.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:17 am

Shakira123 wrote:According to these rules my guilty report last week (https://www.blankmediagames.com/Trial/v ... id=1373817) is a clear innocent.

Yet Naru himself guiltied it and judges defended the decision.

This isn't the place to argue guilty verdicts, but for your clarity, it's pretty clearly stated in the new rules.

And I quote: "Attempting to get someone lynched without reason over multiple games." The "multiple games" should be taken lightly in this scenario. Anything that says "I'm a brat, I was pissy and I wanted to lynch someone out of spite because they did this or that to me last game" is clear harassment. If you don't like the verdict Naru gave you, either take it up with Naru (in PM), or with TP (in PM).

Also, @bleachkid: a townie is 100% confirmed when it's a revealed mayor, or a revived townie, or a Veteran who was visited by multiple people and named in their will.
In the situation that you are NK and mafia is town's priority since many towns died. Suppose you were being pushed on by the mafia and you reveal as NK to get the town to vote with you, certainly not game-throwing, yet by the new "guide" it's stated as it is. This is probably rare still it does happen several times.
The mafia pushing on you (as in: ermagerd, I checked bleachkid and he's SK!), means there is evidence on you. But as long as they don't say anything in that direction and it's still possible for you to play around it (i.e. Death Note says you're immune: you still have plenty of ways to talk yourself out of it, instead of going "Fine, I'm SK and I'll side with town"), there is ABSOLUTELY no need for you to out yourself.

In the situation where the town is outnumbered and a town plays off as jest?

To be honest, townies playing off as jest generally isn't seen as a "good strategy", since chances are the townie will still get lynched. You are OBLIGATED to defend yourself on the stand, unless you are an ACTUAL jester. If mafia has you outnumbered, chances are they're more than willing to take the chance to lynch a possible jester anyway.

These rules are, in my opinion at least, clear enough. Let's be fair, if you're smart enough to try and find a million loopholes in the rules, you're smart enough to realise that common sense also applies to the rules.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:37 am

basedblue3 wrote:
Meandrina wrote:
@basedblue: We we still "believe" that to be true. Good luck changing our opinion on that. And congrats on being in the guide ;)


The countless games that I won thanks to this strategy is enough proof. Already gave plenty of proof of my games where this strategy allowed me to carry town in the past but biased mods and judges don't care


Syanna, Syanna, Syanna... Sigh..

It's not just that the judges don't care. It's that the community (apart from a couple of your friends who're also hellbent on trying to find loopholes in rules) absolutely did not like your "strategy" and that with said "strategy", you ruined countless of other people's games. Now I know it's hard, thinking about other people besides just yourself and how YOU want to play the game, but really, you're better off giving up on the discussion, because the "Syanna tactic" will never be a valid playstyle.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:59 am

basedblue3 wrote:
Flavorable wrote:
basedblue3 wrote:
Meandrina wrote:
@basedblue: We we still "believe" that to be true. Good luck changing our opinion on that. And congrats on being in the guide ;)


The countless games that I won thanks to this strategy is enough proof. Already gave plenty of proof of my games where this strategy allowed me to carry town in the past but biased mods and judges don't care


Syanna, Syanna, Syanna... Sigh..

It's not just that the judges don't care. It's that the community (apart from a couple of your friends who're also hellbent on trying to find loopholes in rules) absolutely did not like your "strategy" and that with said "strategy", you ruined countless of other people's games. Now I know it's hard, thinking about other people besides just yourself and how YOU want to play the game, but really, you're better off giving up on the discussion, because the "Syanna tactic" will never be a valid playstyle.


most of the "community" is simply bad at the game and doesn't even play ranked and they have no interest in making carrying plays. They just don't understand it. The mods are the worst because they have never played ranked in their life and they only play a game of All any or Coven once every 6 months and they dare say what gamethrowing is and isn't in ranked


Look, hun, really. I get where you're coming from when you feel you're not being heard, or you're being judged by the "wrong kind" of people, but.. There simply can't be a different set of rules for Ranked Play. And you can't expect everyone else in the community to have to give in to the wishes of about 8-10 people who've actively "complained" about getting punished for your strategy.

There comes a point in time where you have to pick your battles and, sadly for you, this is a battle that, at least for now, can't be won. For now, instead of tirelessly arguing your stance (which we know by now, trust me), how about you come up with a different strategy that might generate less complaints from your fellow players? A tactic that's both fun and prosperous for you, but also for others? And then eventually, when there's a major part of the community that actually backs up your "Syanna tactic" and you can do it without the reports streaming in, we can talk about the old tactic again.

Right now, I suggest instead of trying to kick everyone with "power" in the game and/or on the forums in the shins about something that's in the past, show everyone that you're above that. That you can (eventually) play the game without resorting to using a tactic specifically asked not to use, just to "spite" mods and judges. People might just get a bit more respect for you again and actually be more open to an actual talk about the tactic, instead of now, where everyone is so tired of the drama around it, the discussion automatically gets cut short.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:01 pm

ivan08651 wrote:I was playing ranked practice as jailor, day 4, lost internet connection, gets reported for being AFK.


To be fair, you were in the game and you were unresponsive. :/

Let the TS handle it and take it up with TP or Naru if you don't agree with the outcome.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Meandrina » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:05 pm

basedblue3 wrote:.... The mods are the worst because they have never played ranked in their life and they only play a game of All any or Coven once every 6 months and they dare say what gamethrowing is and isn't in ranked


Actually, many of the mods play way more often that once every 6 months, some play daily. And even further some play ranked. (insert giant gasp). I know its true! Please stop pretending you know everything. Also as I stated before, many people collaborated on this guide, are you next going to say that none of those people have played ranked?
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:13 pm

basedblue3 wrote:
Flavorable wrote:Right now, I suggest instead of trying to kick everyone with "power" in the game and/or on the forums in the shins about something that's in the past, show everyone that you're above that. That you can (eventually) play the game without resorting to using a tactic specifically asked not to use, just to "spite" mods and judges. People might just get a bit more respect for you again and actually be more open to an actual talk about the tactic, instead of now, where everyone is so tired of the drama around it, the discussion automatically gets cut short.


I never used that tactic to "spite" the mods. I used it because it HELPED ME WIN GAMES and I WANTED TO WIN. If it makes me win games then I will use it. If it makes me win games then how could it be gamethrowing? It CAN'T be gamethrowing if it makes you win because the definition of gamethrowing is doing something that you know will make you lose.


Okay, I'm going to stop you right there. Let's not do this dance again, alright? Like I said, I understand where you're coming from. I do. But arguing about it, at least for now, is pointless. Try to read what I said again, ignore the stuff that immediately frustrates you and take my tips to heart, alright?

And try not to hog the thread too much, so other people who have questions or need some clarity have the space to do so as well, without feeling they're interfering on an argument. And I'm not saying that to be a b*tch, trust me, I just want to help, but right now is not the time to discuss your strategy (not yet anyway).
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Veeena » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:16 pm

Moderator Message: Keep this on topic and do not bring up past shit. If you have questions or want to continue on your discussion, take it to PMs with the OP. Thank you.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:17 pm

bleachkid wrote:This guide should be, in my opinion, made by people that have played/understand this game. Many of these are completely situational that unless you wish to play this game linearly, it would make sense.


Just to focus on this part, and not on the difference of opinion we're having; The rules shouldn't just be catered to the couple people who play Ranked. The largest part of the community doesn't play Ranked, why should all of them suffer, just because of the Ranked players?

The problem with catering to the Ranked players ONLY, is that (and I mean this without offense) high elo ranked players are generally very fanatical players who don't really care about things being fair or not, they only care about whatever technique they can use to increase their own win-rate, no matter who else has to "suffer" within those games, half the time, they don't even care about the other people in their own faction. And while that's perfectly fine, if that's your thing, it shouldn't mean the largest part of the community, who plays this casually, should have to adhere to the playstyles and very much frowned upon (and simply disliked) strategies, just because y'all are proverbially stomping your feet.

Ranked doesn't make this game, as much as you'd want it to. Casual gamemodes make this game.

But if at least 15 high elo Ranked players agree with you, why not party up un a 15 man party and create your own Ranked system. As long as there's no non-premade people in the party, y'all are free to have your own rules and use your own strategies, as long as you all agree to them beforehand. Created your own Ranked system and everyone is happy.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Meandrina » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:50 pm

I will again state,this guide was announced and available for comments for over 2 months to the over 100 people in the trial discord server. The server is open to anyone who partakes in the trial system.

The guide was an effort to educate players of the rules, not create nor change the rules that are currently being enforced. If you would like to request a change to the current rules, please feel free to start a thread about changing the rules. I will be happy to discuss and explain any of the rules listed. However this is not the place to try to change rules. Also open to suggestion on where else you feel this should be posted.


While I realize 100 players in a very small drop in the playerbase, the effort was to create a list of the existing rules, not to create nor change the current rules. As the document states, as the community changes, the rules may change and will be updated and logged in the document.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby WittyRecluse » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Flavorable wrote:
In the situation that you are NK and mafia is town's priority since many towns died. Suppose you were being pushed on by the mafia and you reveal as NK to get the town to vote with you, certainly not game-throwing, yet by the new "guide" it's stated as it is. This is probably rare still it does happen several times.
The mafia pushing on you (as in: ermagerd, I checked bleachkid and he's SK!), means there is evidence on you. But as long as they don't say anything in that direction and it's still possible for you to play around it (i.e. Death Note says you're immune: you still have plenty of ways to talk yourself out of it, instead of going "Fine, I'm SK and I'll side with town"), there is ABSOLUTELY no need for you to out yourself.

This is a basic game scenario that I think you don't understand.

Earlier today I played one game, was SK, ended up winning. The last players left were vig, invest, gf, forger, and me. I actually didn't out myself here (just pushed lynch on forger since I was worried that disguiser MIGHT be dead so town would have 3v2, or at least that they would think that it's dead and lynch a SK claim "just in case"), but normally in this scenario I would instantly out myself as SK at the start of the day and ask town to side with me, otherwise both mafia will try to get me lynched later and it will be easier for them since I wasn't aggressive up front.
Flavorable wrote:
In the situation where the town is outnumbered and a town plays off as jest?

To be honest, townies playing off as jest generally isn't seen as a "good strategy", since chances are the townie will still get lynched. You are OBLIGATED to defend yourself on the stand, unless you are an ACTUAL jester. If mafia has you outnumbered, chances are they're more than willing to take the chance to lynch a possible jester anyway.

These rules are, in my opinion at least, clear enough. Let's be fair, if you're smart enough to try and find a million loopholes in the rules, you're smart enough to realise that common sense also applies to the rules.


Again, you don't understand the gameplay example. I had a similar case, where the remaining roles were me (doc), gf, forger, jester, mayor, and arsonist. I claimed arsonist openly and pushed lynch on jester, hoping that the following would happen:

-jester haunts godfather or forger
-gf attacks arsonist thinking that it's BG
-arsonist either ignites nobody or a mafia, making it 2v2 or 2v1 the next day

I continued claiming arsonist on the stand when evils voted me up and got lynched only because jester wasn't going for his best chance at winning; this was not gamethrowing on my part, it was actually a solid play and the mayor innoed me. It's completely valid to claim to be an evil role in a situation like this where town has last majority and you need a creative play to win.


Flavorable wrote:
basedblue3 wrote:
Meandrina wrote:
@basedblue: We we still "believe" that to be true. Good luck changing our opinion on that. And congrats on being in the guide ;)


The countless games that I won thanks to this strategy is enough proof. Already gave plenty of proof of my games where this strategy allowed me to carry town in the past but biased mods and judges don't care


Syanna, Syanna, Syanna... Sigh..

It's not just that the judges don't care. It's that the community (apart from a couple of your friends who're also hellbent on trying to find loopholes in rules) absolutely did not like your "strategy" and that with said "strategy", you ruined countless of other people's games. Now I know it's hard, thinking about other people besides just yourself and how YOU want to play the game, but really, you're better off giving up on the discussion, because the "Syanna tactic" will never be a valid playstyle.


This is a valid playstyle when used by a skilled player that knows what they're doing and how to back off an accusation; I use similar tactics frequently and am one of the top players in ranked with a higher winrate than nearly any other active player. It's not a valid strategy for a player who is clearly not good at the game and is doing it to troll, like Syanna.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:19 pm

WittyRecluse wrote:all the above


And not to be mean, but.. How many times have you been suspended now?

If the rules are clear enough for someone with about 2000 games played to understand with the guide, I don't see the problem.

The validity of the rules aren't at discussion here, merely the clarity of the guide. And if every single exception has to be added, everyone is gonna go crazy. People should be able to use some common sense. And no, of course people aren't going to report you if you, as NK, out yourself in a situation where you would otherwise pretty much be guaranteed a loss, to try and coax the town into trusting you, hoping to still kill them in the end. The point is that you don't go day 2: "I'm SK, I'll help town".

Like Meandrina already said: If you want the rules to change, or discuss the validity of them, take it up with someone who has the power to change them. As far as I can see, the guide is clear enough.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby WittyRecluse » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:45 pm

Flavorable wrote:
WittyRecluse wrote:all the above


And not to be mean, but.. How many times have you been suspended now?

If the rules are clear enough for someone with about 2000 games played to understand with the guide, I don't see the problem.

The validity of the rules aren't at discussion here, merely the clarity of the guide. And if every single exception has to be added, everyone is gonna go crazy. People should be able to use some common sense. And no, of course people aren't going to report you if you, as NK, out yourself in a situation where you would otherwise pretty much be guaranteed a loss, to try and coax the town into trusting you, hoping to still kill them in the end. The point is that you don't go day 2: "I'm SK, I'll help town".

Like Meandrina already said: If you want the rules to change, or discuss the validity of them, take it up with someone who has the power to change them. As far as I can see, the guide is clear enough.

For gamethrowing? (which is what my post is about) Never. And considering that judges and mods have a history of not using common sense in their interpretations of the rules, basing everything off of the exact wording of rules instead of the obvious fair judgments that should be given, these notes should indeed be added.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby GeniusWind » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:03 pm

Meandrina wrote:http://bit.do/ToS-Rules

A brand guide of the game rules has just been released! It's been in the works for over 2 months and was a collaboration between the trial system and GMods, even BMG gave some input. It includes not only the rules, but a bit about the reporting system and how to appeal.

it's pretty important if you want to keep yourself from getting suspended ;)

Be sure to spread this link around to all your friends that play this game and all Discord servers that associate with this game (but be sure not to spam it) and be sure to read it through.




~~~~~~~~
A sidenote from me...
PLEASE stop using whatever report reason you want. Reporting for the wrong reason actually slows down the report from being judged. The higher the report reason does NOT mean the faster the report is viewed. Hate speech/harassment does NOT mean you hate what the player is doing.

Edit: change of wording from "new rules guide" to "new guide of the game rules" so that people don't mistake this as new rules.


Hello, sometimes when i report players, the report won't appear under the player's account. Often times I find that if someone else is reported in the game, then it is unlikely for the report to be present. Is it a known bug?
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Meandrina » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:07 pm

It does take 2 people to report for the same reason in order for a report to generate.
For example, if we are playing with wittyrecluse up there. I report him for spamming, but you report for hatespeech/harassment; the report will not get generated. But, if we both report for spamming, the report will generate.
I have also heard of some glitches of reporting from the end game lobby.
Other than that, I have not heard of a limit to the number of reports that can be generated for a given game, but I will ask around.

(not picking on you witty, you were just the one that posted above)
Last edited by Meandrina on Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby GeniusWind » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:23 pm

Meandrina wrote:It does take 2 people to report for the same reason in order for a report to generate. For example, if we are playing with wittyrecluse up there and I report him for spamming, but you report for hatespeech/harassment... the report will not get generated. I have also heard of some glitches of reporting from the end game lobby.
Other than that, I have not heard of a limit to the number of reports that can be generated for a given game, but I will ask around.

(not picking on you witty, you were just the one that posted above)


Your first sentence and example sounds different to me. So we need 2 or more people to report someone for gamethrowing for the gamethrowing report to register? Because I reported someone a few hours earlier for gamethrowing but their report didn't appear when I checked for it after the game ( 10 min+ ). Basically nothing about this game's report was registered.

Edit: Okay gotcha. It makes sense now why players usually ask everyone to report a gamethrower. Cuz an individual report will be auto-discarded -__- Thanks!
Last edited by GeniusWind on Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Meandrina » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:28 pm

sorry, i dropped a sentence when I got distracted while typing. Edited now, do it make more sense?
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby abizoey » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Meandrina wrote:I report him for spamming, but you report for hatespeech/harassment; the report will not get generated. But, if we both report for spamming, the report will generate.


Has there ever actually been official confirmation that this is how it works? Because I was under the impression that if two people report a player for different reasons, the report will still generate with the 'highest priority' reason.
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby WittyRecluse » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:42 pm

abizoey wrote:
Meandrina wrote:I report him for spamming, but you report for hatespeech/harassment; the report will not get generated. But, if we both report for spamming, the report will generate.


Has there ever actually been official confirmation that this is how it works? Because I was under the impression that if two people report a player for different reasons, the report will still generate with the 'highest priority' reason.

Yeah fairly sure you're right here
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Re: TOS RULES GUIDE

Postby Flavorable » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:21 am

abizoey wrote:
Meandrina wrote:I report him for spamming, but you report for hatespeech/harassment; the report will not get generated. But, if we both report for spamming, the report will generate.


Has there ever actually been official confirmation that this is how it works? Because I was under the impression that if two people report a player for different reasons, the report will still generate with the 'highest priority' reason.


Time to ask around. I'll get back to everyone about that.
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