Should Witch be balanced like a Neutral or like a Traitor?

[Cookazoo2]

As Witch could probably use a fix considering the current Ranked list, my question is:

Should we balance Witch around the concept of being Neutral (Evil) or treat them like a fifth and uninformed Mafia member?

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Neutral for sure

[Ezradekezra]

Definitely as a Neutral, since it's supposed to be able to side with other scum roles and even win by itself in some scenarios.

[kyuss420]

Nuetral, ofc, as ranked isnt the only game mode in town of salem (just has the highest % of whingers IMO) besides balancing it around a role list that changes every season is kind of moot.

So what kind of ''fix'' are you talkin bout here? How is it even ''broken''? and what exactly is your suggestion on changing it?

[Cookazoo2]

The question is essentially "do we improve the Witch's capabilities of survival or do we improve the Witch's ability to win?"

Essentially, total scumshield or win while dead?

[syjfwbaobfwl]

I vote for total scumshield

[Ezradekezra]

Keep the one-shot shield as-is (maybe give attackers a defense message tho) and let it win while dead

That'll also solve the issue of people hanging the Witch to screw them over

[Brilliand]

What do you mean by "total scumshield"? Do you mean permanent instead of one-shot?

I think the Witch's shield should remain one-shot, but should become a perfect defense against all scum attacks (for that one shot), while being useless against Town attacks.

[dolphina]

Keep the one-shot shield as-is (maybe give attackers a defense message tho) and let it win while dead

That'll also solve the issue of people hanging the Witch to screw them over

this is basically my opinion

[Cookazoo2]

I mean Invincible Defense for a 1-shot. But only against non-Town.

[dolphina]

I mean Invincible Defense for a 1-shot. But only against non-Town.

perhaps

[Brilliand]

I mean Invincible Defense for a 1-shot. But only against non-Town.

Okay, then "total scumshield" is exactly what I prefer.

Keep in mind that that's a net nerf to the Witch in Ranked, though, so there's still room to buff the Witch alongside that. I've previously proposed a limited "win while dead", where the witch has to predict which evil faction will win; if she manages to correctly predict that while still alive, she can then win while dead.

[OreCreeper]

I'm not sure if this would nerf witch too much but I think it should show up as suspicious to the sheriff.

[kyuss420]

So is the problem that witch is too hard for town to deal with in ranked? Seems this is the case from the nerf suggestions (show as sus to sheriff lmao, no shield against vigi unless maf hit them already)

or is just that maf can hang the witch if they choose (which is reportable under harrassment, i believe)

[Cookazoo2]

So is the problem that witch is too hard for town to deal with in ranked? Seems this is the case from the nerf suggestions (show as sus to sheriff lmao, no shield against vigi unless maf hit them already)

or is just that maf can hang the witch if they choose (which is reportable under harrassment, i believe)

witch being hung for the lolz being reportable in ranked is fine.

The ultimate goal of this was to make Witch slightly more counterable for Townside (not entirely necessary but not unnecessary) while trading that town-stopping power for scum-protection. In this case, Witch can now also survive one Arsonist ignition, which was a big problem.

When Arsonist was in Ranked.

[alex1234321]

Witch should be an uninformed minority, not a fifth Mafia member. If you want to make it into a fifth Mafia member, change it into a Mafia role. But please nerf it because it would be OP even compared to Consort.

Like Town, Witch should have to scumread to determine who is on its side. For that reason it shouldn't be able to determine exact roles. Like scum, it should have to push mislynches without getting caught. Having roles that have to do both of these things adds depth to the game that wouldn't be possible if Witch was a fifth Mafia member.

[Yemac]

Keep the one-shot shield as-is (maybe give attackers a defense message tho) and let it win while dead

That'll also solve the issue of people hanging the Witch to screw them over

this is basically my opinion

I love this suggestion, though I would not oppose witch showing up as sus, or witch having a counterbalance (like one night shield against mafia, but vig can kill them).

Witch now needs to balance a really fine line between finding mafia, but only being able to reveal themselves when Jailor/Mayor/TK is dead. Mafia relies on Witch to witch jailor so mafia can maintain majoirty, but Witch can't rely on mafia unless there is a consort to block the Jailor's execute

[Descender]

neutral, it means the original concept of a traitor stays as is and adds more variation to the game