Ambusher seems underpowered

[hissingwillows]

Maybe it's just my experience in games with the role, but I feel like ambusher is kind of a rough role to pull off effectively. Every time I've gotten ambusher, I've never ended up actually hitting anybody, and nearly every time I've been in a game where someone else is ambusher, they end up getting spotted by another visit.

I feel like the role has too much of a nerf - it's hard to actually manage to kill someone unless you go on someone you're sure will be visited, but often there will be many visits on that target (such as visiting a jailor to ambush TP/LO) and you'll be immediately outed. I think it makes sense for the person getting ambushed to see the name since it gives the medium a bit more use - but I've personally never seen the med even need to get info from the ambush victim, since the ambusher gets outed by another visit to their target.

Thoughts? Have others seen more successful ambusher games? It might just be that I've been in a lot of games with unlucky ambushers, but I've rarely seen it meaningfully help the mafia. I don't want to totally dismiss it as a viable role, but I haven't seen it utilized well.

[Brilliand]

The Ambusher's ability is currently to get an extra kill. That's pretty crazy. So, unless Ambusher gets an overhaul to give it a different downside, it's kind of necessary that it be hard to pull off.

If the Ambusher could reliably kill even twice per game without outing itself, then it would be horribly overpowered.

[kyuss420]

what Brilliand said.... without the ambusher being spotted by players, it wouldnt be hard for maf to easily get constant 2Kpn. How it works now is a typical 1 for 1 situation if ambusher chooses to visit an obviously high visited target. Chances are he will kill an important role, but maf will lose a player in the process.

Its a coven role, and works pretty well there as you can camp on poisoned claims and kill a doc, or camp on a surv claim and kill a TI, which is where its best utilised. Play it like a TI and camp on suspicious townies to pick off a curious TI, instead of going on the most protected players in the game.

I think it would be even easier to pull off in classic, as you dont have crusaders to worry about, so when the TP have to split (like when a mayor reveals), you can easily snipe them...or snipe the LO on the TPs, or even snipe a TP on another TP while the LO is on the TP youre sniping (do classic players even chain protect like that???)

So yea, its best utilised as a TP/LO chain breaker, or a TI sniper.....not so much as a ''visit the player who will have most visitors'' kind of role

[Brilliand]

or even snipe a TP on another TP while the LO is on the TP youre sniping (do classic players even chain protect like that???)

Yes. Not as much anymore, since the Jailor meta is more popular, but it was quite common back before the Jailor meta, and it's still a known strategy even now.

[Cookazoo2]

I suggest that the Ambusher instead waits in ambush to "mug" someone, either giving them an unflavored roleblock or giving them a nullified visit with flavor and no ambush message
("A shadowy figure beat you senseless on the way to your target. Your visit was nullified!")

And then giving a 2-shot coin ability to become cautious (more than one visitor? don't ambush or visit) and kill if someone visits. Charges are depleted upon use versus on successful ambush, meaning that the Ambusher will only EVER increase KPN twice.

[Ezradekezra]

I suggest that the Ambusher instead waits in ambush to "mug" someone, either giving them an unflavored roleblock or giving them a nullified visit with flavor and no ambush message
("A shadowy figure beat you senseless on the way to your target. Your visit was nullified!")

That's just a Mafia Rolestopper

[Cookazoo2]

I suggest that the Ambusher instead waits in ambush to "mug" someone, either giving them an unflavored roleblock or giving them a nullified visit with flavor and no ambush message
("A shadowy figure beat you senseless on the way to your target. Your visit was nullified!")

That's just a Mafia Rolestopper

Rolestopper stops ALL visits. This stops one.

Also, note how there's a limited-shot cautious kill ability.

[Ezradekezra]

I suggest that the Ambusher instead waits in ambush to "mug" someone, either giving them an unflavored roleblock or giving them a nullified visit with flavor and no ambush message
("A shadowy figure beat you senseless on the way to your target. Your visit was nullified!")

That's just a Mafia Rolestopper

Rolestopper stops ALL visits. This stops one.

Also, note how there's a limited-shot cautious kill ability.

A Rolestopper doesn't necessarily stop all visits. I've seen versions used that only stop one visit, such as in XX9.

The cautious kill thing overly complicates the role a bit, but is otherwise fine.

Having a Rolestopper that's informed of who the rest of the Mafia is would be a bad idea because they would just continuously go on the kill target in order to render TPs useless.

[EqsyLootz]

Ambusher is known to be a high risk high reward. Especially in gamemodes like Ranked. Ambusher can single handedly lead the mafia to victory simple with getting some extra kills.

If gf is jailed you can get a kill by ambushing the jailor and getting the doc gone. One extra Kill per night makes Ambusher a very powerful role.

[Lewisfaisal4869]

I rmbr people bitching about Ambusher being op when it came to classic. Heck that's what lead to the 4v10 rolelist with confirmed ambusher.

It's a good role if used correctly, but using it correctly isnt always easy.