Supertcgamer wrote:The jailor meta cripples all evils claim space in rank. Evils cant claim tp nor LO. They're forced to claim one of the 3 TI roles, a TK role (which is always sus) or a TS role which is impossible to prove as. And certain TI roles are nearly impossible to fake such as inves unless your consig or witch, then there is spy and sheriff. These are the only TI roles you can easily claim (especially if mafia). As well this really limits NK and mafia killing people as if they kill a cc, say a sheriff and one of the killing factions claims sheriff that "sheriff" is getting lynched. So maf and NK really have to hit LO and tp first which is hard to do at times and sometimes the RTS are in favor of nothing but LO and tps which gives them all the ability to setup a high defense. And allows possibly the other TIs (if any) to figure out who maf is cause TIs and tp and RTS are pretty much full. If RT is nothing but literally tp/lo and both TI is LO. Well there's only claim space for TS and TK. And proving to be TS or TK is a death sentence, even if you manage to get the real tk or ts lynched or exe, it's 1f1.
Jailor meta breaks the game and it's time for it to go.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
OreCreeper wrote:Supertcgamer wrote:The jailor meta cripples all evils claim space in rank. Evils cant claim tp nor LO. They're forced to claim one of the 3 TI roles, a TK role (which is always sus) or a TS role which is impossible to prove as. And certain TI roles are nearly impossible to fake such as inves unless your consig or witch, then there is spy and sheriff. These are the only TI roles you can easily claim (especially if mafia). As well this really limits NK and mafia killing people as if they kill a cc, say a sheriff and one of the killing factions claims sheriff that "sheriff" is getting lynched. So maf and NK really have to hit LO and tp first which is hard to do at times and sometimes the RTS are in favor of nothing but LO and tps which gives them all the ability to setup a high defense. And allows possibly the other TIs (if any) to figure out who maf is cause TIs and tp and RTS are pretty much full. If RT is nothing but literally tp/lo and both TI is LO. Well there's only claim space for TS and TK. And proving to be TS or TK is a death sentence, even if you manage to get the real tk or ts lynched or exe, it's 1f1.
Jailor meta breaks the game and it's time for it to go.
But evils can claim LO and definitely TP? What's your elo?
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
wozearly wrote:OreCreeper wrote:Supertcgamer wrote:The jailor meta cripples all evils claim space in rank. Evils cant claim tp nor LO. They're forced to claim one of the 3 TI roles, a TK role (which is always sus) or a TS role which is impossible to prove as. And certain TI roles are nearly impossible to fake such as inves unless your consig or witch, then there is spy and sheriff. These are the only TI roles you can easily claim (especially if mafia). As well this really limits NK and mafia killing people as if they kill a cc, say a sheriff and one of the killing factions claims sheriff that "sheriff" is getting lynched. So maf and NK really have to hit LO and tp first which is hard to do at times and sometimes the RTS are in favor of nothing but LO and tps which gives them all the ability to setup a high defense. And allows possibly the other TIs (if any) to figure out who maf is cause TIs and tp and RTS are pretty much full. If RT is nothing but literally tp/lo and both TI is LO. Well there's only claim space for TS and TK. And proving to be TS or TK is a death sentence, even if you manage to get the real tk or ts lynched or exe, it's 1f1.
Jailor meta breaks the game and it's time for it to go.
But evils can claim LO and definitely TP? What's your elo?
Erm...good luck with that LO claim during the Jailor meta.
If there is actually another LO in the game, on N1 you'll need to be seen visiting the Jailor (and so not be a killing role) and correctly identify the other Lookout, plus who any TP, Escort and Spy claims are to whisper them to the Jailor on D2 (assuming no Jailor cc's). While there's a small possibility for error in the 3+ visits confusion, you won't know how many visitors the Jailor has and so still need to predict with high accuracy. Frankly, the bar for that is absurdly high, and with a few whispers the Jailor will rapidly establish which LO will is correct and which one is a complete fabrication.
The only way to fake it with another LO in play is to use other Mafia members to pretend to be those roles and try to present Town with two completely contradictory LO wills both backed up by their respective visitors. The problem there is that as soon as the Town establish which one is the Mafia version (Disguiser is only of limited help here) then they can simply sweep up any Mafia members involved in the fakery. You'd be better off not risking it.
So if you're trying it, you're doing so in the 50/50 hope there is no actual Lookout. But as you have to openly claim D2 and your info will be amongst the first to be followed up, it's a very ballsy move that again, you ideally need at least one of the other Mafia to go along with. Which means the whole house of cards can fall if you're challenged - and you will be, by all the roles that actually did visit the Jailor which you have no idea about when you make the fake claim.
Claiming LO was always somewhat tricky, but under the Jailor meta at high ELO it's just not worth it.
OreCreeper wrote:You can even include your other RM in your will and just put "and more". Even if the other RM dies, you won't look sus cuz RMs are expected to visit jailor n1.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
OreCreeper wrote:Does a spy post their will d2? Shove it into your will. Did you kill a TP n1? Shove it into your will. You can even include your other RM in your will and just put "and more". Even if the other RM dies, you won't look sus cuz RMs are expected to visit jailor n1.
Joacgroso wrote:Claiming invest isn't that hard as mafia. Just ask your teammates what they are going to claim and post the results the next day. You can also claim TP or lookout if you are jailed n1. If you are framer, forger or disguiser you can claim TP and visit jailor n1, being confirmed by lookouts.
CrimsonKatana wrote:AKA admitting you're trash at the game in a post
Joacgroso wrote:Claiming invest isn't that hard as mafia. Just ask your teammates what they are going to claim and post the results the next day. You can also claim TP or lookout if you are jailed n1. If you are framer, forger or disguiser you can claim TP and visit jailor n1, being confirmed by lookouts.
Supertcgamer wrote:I agree with the framer and disguiser visiting jailor so they can "confirm" themselves. Forger has 3 visits. It's not worth it. But there is a problem to this, spy. Spy counters all RMs hard, if spy's there and a LO is there all they need to do is get claims lynch a guy to find out who evil is. sometimes being 1f1 or 2f1 etc. Even if there is no lo it might be a bit harder to weed out the evils but a few lynches and vigi shots with a jailor exe should do the trick. Spy makes this a problem.
Supertcgames wrote:You do realize when your RM even visits jailor a long side with all other tp claims and LOs claims and you claim TI it gives off there is a play going on. So if say mafioso or gf claims inves and disguiser and framer claim tp and or spy there is already to many claims, you got a guarantee tp cc, and two guarantee TI ccs. Then you'll have 3 RT ccs if any of em are ti or tp. Then there is the problem with TS. Ret is still unique so anyone who ccs ret will juat become a 1f1 showdown. Then you have escort which can go either way, meds who CAN confirm each other at night and mayor. So TS is usually out of the question. Not to mention if your RM disguiser or framer is killed for a 1f1 deal will also out you as a fake inves. Which in more times than not it happens. So it's not really a good idea to claim inves as maf or give out their claim info on day 2 or day 3 unless necessary. It can work and be very smart but it's to hard to pull off. Jailor is a problem, town is suppose to be the uninformed majority, jailor is a team captain that gets info rolling way to fast in early game. Even if maf plays along on the meta there is still a high chance of maf.getting found out. The winrates prove this.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Joacgroso wrote:Spies are actually a reason to visit the jailor, not to avoid him. If there is a lookout, mafia can get some misslynches or missexecutions, which can give them mayority. Lynching one TP might make the difference between killing the jailor and gaining mayority or not, even if lookouts finds out who killed him. But more importantly, if there is a lookout and mafia doesn't visit the jailor, then everyone who visited him will be confirmed, which is way worse for mafia than one of their teammates being suspected.
Joacgroso wrote:What winrates prove it? Where does that data come from?
Joacgroso wrote:I don't understand why town would suspect a TI claim because other people visited the jailor ... You don't need to cause that many misslynches in order to get mayority. Even if you are outed after that, town won't be able to do anything about it ... It's true that backing up a teammate is risky, but if mafia members don't coordinate and work like an actual team, they will be destroyed by town, who will try to confirm each other. Of course, it's better for evils to claim late, but town shouldn't let them do that.
TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:Fix to D1 Jailor meta
If the Jailor talks D1, he gets modkilled
Ez
cob709 wrote:solution to jailor meta:
DAY ONE
Jailor: "im jailor tplo on me"
Godfather: "I'm Jailor, TP/LO on me."
everyone: wha???
Godfather: "Oh, he's a fake."
NIGHT ONE
Attack Jailor
(if jailed): "I was vet baiting"
DAY TWO
Godfather: "I was vet baiting"
CheezePie wrote:I mean, the jailer meta works under the right conditions.
But I never follow it as a jailer. It's fun seeing the town go mad D2 because I haven't claimed.
cob709 wrote:solution to jailor meta:
DAY ONE
Jailor: "im jailor tplo on me"
Godfather: "I'm Jailor, TP/LO on me."
everyone: wha???
Godfather: "Oh, he's a fake."
NIGHT ONE
Attack Jailor
(if jailed): "I was vet baiting"
DAY TWO
Godfather: "I was vet baiting"
TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:Fix to D1 Jailor meta
If the Jailor talks D1, he gets modkilled
Ez
OreCreeper wrote:TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:Fix to D1 Jailor meta
If the Jailor talks D1, he gets modkilled
Ez
I can do better. Any townie who visits the jailor gets dealt an unstoppable attack. Now all the silver elo players who dont know how to deal with the jailor meta can stop complaining
BlastingOff wrote:A better idea: Mafia autowins as soon as a townie rolls. Let's reduce town's winrate
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