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Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:59 am
by Tanf
As the title says. This role is pretty much useless, its completely invalidated by the presence of spy (or lack of Sherif), and even when a spy isnt in game you still need a masive stroke of luck for it to actually be relevant.

All you can do as a framer is visit someone and hope that Sheriff visits that same person, and then let the Sheriff do the work for you, thats it. Its just an unfun role that doesnt allow for much play making, making it, and by extent the whole mafia, less fun- Its unfun to have framer in your team, and its unfun to be the framer in your team.

And yeah I know its technically possible to be usefull as a Framer in other ways but lets be real, the chances of making a successfull play are very slim, and pretty much anything you can do with a Framer you can do with any other Random Mafia role.

I feel like removing it would decrease the number of players who immediately leave the game when they get Mafia roles.

Thoughts on this?

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:00 am
by Google
roles cannot and will not be removed from the game. if you want to make a suggestion on how to fix framer, please go to Role Ideas.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:06 pm
by shelboo
Nov 28, 2018
Achilles wrote:I would prefer to buff both the Framer and Disguiser separately instead of combining them into one role.

Reference

There was previously discussion about the role. If you start from earlier in the thread, you'll see an idea the community voted against so the devs didn't put it in.
This is the same thread where the Sheriff change came from to show evils as suspicious instead of saying they're "Mafia", "Serial Killer", etc.

As Google has stated, the role will not be removed from the game. BMG won't change the role until after the Unity port comes out.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:35 am
by kyuss420
Tanf wrote:As the title says. This role is pretty much useless, its completely invalidated by the presence of spy (or lack of Sherif), and even when a spy isnt in game you still need a masive stroke of luck for it to actually be relevant.

All you can do as a framer is visit someone and hope that Sheriff visits that same person, and then let the Sheriff do the work for you, thats it. Its just an unfun role that doesnt allow for much play making, making it, and by extent the whole mafia, less fun- Its unfun to have framer in your team, and its unfun to be the framer in your team.

And yeah I know its technically possible to be usefull as a Framer in other ways but lets be real, the chances of making a successfull play are very slim, and pretty much anything you can do with a Framer you can do with any other Random Mafia role.

I feel like removing it would decrease the number of players who immediately leave the game when they get Mafia roles.

Thoughts on this?


Well, if players love town so much, then they should know how to sheriff. If they know how to sheriff, then why would it be so hard to frame the sheriff's target? Read the chat, who would you be checking if you were sheriff? Theres your framing target.... Out thinking town roles is pretty fun, causing mislynches is pretty fun, making town doubt the sheriff claim is pretty fun.... How many noob sheriffs have player 1 as n1 in their will?

Of course, if you're just pulling rando crap with the hit and hope method, then sure, you may as well stay home and hope for a mafioso promotion.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:36 am
by Bricklet
shelboo wrote:Nov 28, 2018
Achilles wrote:I would prefer to buff both the Framer and Disguiser separately instead of combining them into one role.

Reference

I was just reading this and it said that the Unity port would be done sometime around February. We're in September now.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:05 am
by ElderSivart
Bricklet wrote:
shelboo wrote:Nov 28, 2018
Achilles wrote:I would prefer to buff both the Framer and Disguiser separately instead of combining them into one role.

Reference

I was just reading this and it said that the Unity port would be done sometime around February. We're in September now.

Yeah, the ETA got changed, there actually isn't one now.

Unity is in beta for the Steam client so it's assumedly close to being ready, but the devs don't give dates because they often miss them. Sometimes things are harder than you expect, I guess.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:20 am
by KatiyaKramer
Bricklet wrote:
shelboo wrote:Nov 28, 2018
Achilles wrote:I would prefer to buff both the Framer and Disguiser separately instead of combining them into one role.

Reference

I was just reading this and it said that the Unity port would be done sometime around February. We're in September now.

That was before the Data Breach happened and the devs had to put the Unity port on hold in order to address it and up the security for the game.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:53 am
by woahah
KatiyaKramer wrote:
Bricklet wrote:
shelboo wrote:Nov 28, 2018
Achilles wrote:I would prefer to buff both the Framer and Disguiser separately instead of combining them into one role.

Reference

I was just reading this and it said that the Unity port would be done sometime around February. We're in September now.

That was before the Data Breach happened and the devs had to put the Unity port on hold in order to address it and up the security for the game.

the data breach happened before febuary afaik. The dev account BlankMediaGames was the one compromised and promptly deleted after they realized it was, and I think that was January. In fact, the breach was last december. I get that the unity port needed to be delayed, but in the way the steam beta came out there wasnt that much actually changed to fit PC. This is nothing to do with the topic anyways.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:02 pm
by KatiyaKramer
woahah wrote:
KatiyaKramer wrote:
Bricklet wrote:
shelboo wrote:Nov 28, 2018
Achilles wrote:I would prefer to buff both the Framer and Disguiser separately instead of combining them into one role.

Reference

I was just reading this and it said that the Unity port would be done sometime around February. We're in September now.

That was before the Data Breach happened and the devs had to put the Unity port on hold in order to address it and up the security for the game.

the data breach happened before febuary afaik. The dev account BlankMediaGames was the one compromised and promptly deleted after they realized it was, and I think that was January. In fact, the breach was last december. I get that the unity port needed to be delayed, but in the way the steam beta came out there wasnt that much actually changed to fit PC. This is nothing to do with the topic anyways.

I meant that Achilles' post about Unity coming in February happened before the breach. He posted that in November, the Breach happened late December and was discovered in early January.
I was only clarifying it because Bricklet pointed out how Achilles said the port would be done by Feb, when that statement was made pre-breach.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:11 am
by woahah
KatiyaKramer wrote:
woahah wrote:
KatiyaKramer wrote:
Bricklet wrote:
shelboo wrote:Nov 28, 2018
Achilles wrote:I would prefer to buff both the Framer and Disguiser separately instead of combining them into one role.

Reference

I was just reading this and it said that the Unity port would be done sometime around February. We're in September now.

That was before the Data Breach happened and the devs had to put the Unity port on hold in order to address it and up the security for the game.

the data breach happened before febuary afaik. The dev account BlankMediaGames was the one compromised and promptly deleted after they realized it was, and I think that was January. In fact, the breach was last december. I get that the unity port needed to be delayed, but in the way the steam beta came out there wasnt that much actually changed to fit PC. This is nothing to do with the topic anyways.

I meant that Achilles' post about Unity coming in February happened before the breach. He posted that in November, the Breach happened late December and was discovered in early January.
I was only clarifying it because Bricklet pointed out how Achilles said the port would be done by Feb, when that statement was made pre-breach.
I get that, but your facts are inaccurate
I still kind of think the devs were just procrastinating cause how the beta came out

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:07 pm
by BasicFourLife
Google wrote:roles cannot and will not be removed from the game. if you want to make a suggestion on how to fix framer, please go to Role Ideas.

i cannot express how incredibly disappointed i am in you to make this post

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:16 pm
by woahah
BasicFourLife wrote:
Google wrote:roles cannot and will not be removed from the game. if you want to make a suggestion on how to fix framer, please go to Role Ideas.

i cannot express how incredibly disappointed i am in you to make this post

;-; im sorry mom

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:22 pm
by LayleCB
Framer could probably use a buff, like maybe choosing what role pool to frame them as to invests and showing as sus to sheriff. Sheriffs almost always proceed with caution, if not the whole town when they come up with a sus result. The Sheriff / Framer dynamic throws towns into a black hole where sheriff results are never entirely trusted, even if they are a real sheriff with a real line on maf, yet framer rarely works to begin with. Framer/vamp/jester results are never taken seriously by invests either, and can be shattered by just asking for a will most of the time.
I'm all for changing it if only because people hate playing maf in general, and a small buff or rework might be in order just so people don't get so disgruntled by seeing they're a maf role.

Re: Can we please remove Framer from the game?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:21 pm
by Tharok
I have to disagree with you. Framer's effectiveness may depend on the ELO of the players you get put against, so this may be another thread that is Ranked oriented, but I wanted to discuss it anyway. The people I usually get put up against get fooled by really basic Exe claims or if it really was a Framer. Also, I would refrain from referring to roles as "unfun" because you feeling that way does not hold true for everybody, or even the vast majority of players.

I definitely do not think removing it would decrease the number of leaving players. But, then again, that statement may apply solely to Ranked.