roles that could be changed

[logthefro]

Town of Salem is a fun game that I play quite a while but there are some roles that I find fun but others don't and leave early all because they get that role some roles are and what is wrong with them.

(Put role here):(Explain what's wrong)
(If you have ideas please say them)

Mafioso: I personly like it but I am always seeing people leave when they get it and it is so much harder on mafia you can be smart but you get controlled by the godfather with no freedom if they are bad then you are technically bad. not only that but you are their puppet so you can just throw them to test and see if they are a vet. You may be able to see why most people don't like it.
(mabey give them some more freedom so the godfather is not the obvious better one.)

Framer: it only helps if invest or sheriff are in the game plus they click the same person. if the town has a spy and a lookout then what are you supposed to do and spy is the direct counter. It is situational and you can't do as much for the mafia. I can't see any other reasons why people don't like it.
(i can't think of ways to help this one)

Disguiser: What's the point it can only fool ret and medium but disguiser has to be very lucky for either one to be in the game and have the same will as the role overall very bad.
(give this role some more use other than just when they are dead)

Forger: Only helps when certain role come out and late game you have to have lighting had to write a will in time. Hope town does not have a medium.
( mabey if you have a page that the will would go into so you can right it during the day)

Town roles that could use some help.

retributionist: you only have one use at a time After you revive it is literally sitting around. hope jailor does not die early or you will do a lot of sitting and waiting.
(give the ret some more use after reviving)


Medium: I find usful and fun but others don't can help support town and stop forger and Jani but nothing else that is why it is supported but does not do that much only talking.
(give the medium more use to make more fun to play)

Mayor: Situational where you wait to please a button it suffers from the same problem as retail where there is a lot of waits and nothing happens at night granted after hitting it you have a 50% chance of not having tp(doc on you) you can still have a lo or bg but bg then has a dilemma jailor or mayor and lo only helps when you do so.
(give more use to the mayor at night or just more use)

Spy: Bugging has barely any use and is constantly wrong mafia. mafia visits does not always do good like finding out that good
(fix bugs so they work: they usually give bad results: give more use to bugged like saying what happened to them as a sheriff interrogation or arsonist douse)

Neutrals or neutral that could use help.

Arsonist

It takes so long to cover the right amount of people to win maximum nights if only role blocked once by 4 escorts and one jail with an exe as the NE then it's about 19 days it can be higher is roleblocked fewer people dying or having a witch on your side but there are other problem like if your doused person dies which happens too much there is no way to kill early on without being very weak.
(mabey give the ability to set people on fire but they can get save by tp but ignition is different, plus mabey all who visited ignited can die too but can be saved by tp)

[DragonClaw66]

I will be making a list of changes to all roles in the classic version of Town of Salem (not the expansion).

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Town (General)
Problem: There are too many existing roles in the Town that have too much power, however, nerfing them too much would drop the Town's win rates drastically (presumably).
Fix: Add the Town Power alignment, which contains the Jailor, Mayor, and Retributionist.

Jailor
Problem: Even if moved into an alignment made specifically for powerful Town roles, it is much too strong.
Fix: Jailing provides basic defense, executions deal powerful attacks, a player cannot be jailed consecutively, the Jailor only has two executions.

Mayor
Problem: It is now too weak when compared to the Jailor and Retributionist.
Fix: Can now be healed by Doctors. Gains another ability that occurs during the voting period (unknown).

Retributionist
Problem: Same as the Jailor.
Fix: I have no idea, but it needs a nerf.

Investigator
Problem: The results are too restricted, giving evildoers too little claim space.
Fix: Until more Town roles are added, this feels like the best possible overhaul.

Spy
Problem: Seeing Mafia visits is completely overpowered and prevents any sort of planning or success in ability for the Mafia.
Fix: Rework it, but I have no idea how. Perhaps make the bug a part of its core ability?

Veteran
Problem: Too weak when compared to the Vigilante's direct killing power.
Fix: Alerting grants a temporary powerful defense and immunity to all effects applied by evildoers.

Vigilante
Problem: A Vigilante shooting a Town member is much too devastating.
Fix: The Vigilante loses all bullets if a Town member is shot, but also only has two bullets. To make the community happier, give it a death note like the Jailor's.

Bodyguard
Problem: Once an evildoer is counterattacked, the Bodyguard should die no matter what. Also, the counterattack order is randomized and it should not be.
Fix: An unstoppable attack is dealt in the event of a successful counterattack. It counterattacks in the following order: Town Killing, Mafia Killing, Neutral Chaos, Neutral Killing.

Medium
Problem: It's underpowered when players leave but overpowered if there is another Medium.
Fix: Can select a dead Town member to view their whispers, notifications, last will, and role. Can no longer read the dead chat.

Mafia (General)
Problem: The faction can be stopped way too easily when facing distraction abilities (role blocking and jailing).
Fix: Tactical Mafia allows much more flexibility. The Mafioso is removed.

Godfather
Problem: With the addition of Tactical Mafia, it is practically useless.
Fix: It knows what roles visit the Mafia.

Disguiser
Problem: Core of ability relies on it being dead.
Fix: No clue, but it needs a strong buff or a complete rework (preferably the latter).

Forger
Problem: Rarely knows the target's role. When it does, forging it often offers no benefit.
Fix: Can edit a forged will during the day. Can choose a fake role and will to override a target's true role and will. The target's true role and will are revealed two days after their death.

Framer
Problem: Can't trick most Town Investigatives.
Fix: This.

Blackmailer
Problem: Blackmailing can be effective, but also counterproductive in many cases due to the ability for players to reveal they are blackmailed via vote spamming.
Fix: Players are no longer informed that they are blackmailed; it appears that all sent messages are successful. The Blackmailer, however, loses the ability to hear whispers.

Amnesiac
Problem: It's too Town-sided because it never lives long enough and everybody is informed of what it remembers.
Fix: Remembrance occurs before attacks. Receives a scum autovest. Players are no longer informed what roles are remembered by Amnesiacs.

Survivor
Problem: It has no interaction with other players during the game (with its ability and goal).
Fix: This.

Jester
Problem: It doesn't work in favor of evildoers as often as it should.
Fix: Receives a scum autovest. Once lynched, all Town night abilities will fail until the following day; no longer haunts players.

Witch
Problem: Much too oppressive due to its ability to harm Town roles easily.
Fix: Autovest changed into a scum autovest. Can now only determine factional alignment of targets.

Arsonist
Problem: Kills too slowly.
Fix: This.

Serial Killer
Problem: Not really any problems, but it could use a little help.
Fix: When jailed, can choose whether or not to attack the Jailor.

Werewolf
Problem: Extremely unreliable.
Fix: This.

[Joacgroso]

I don't think allowing gfs to read whispers would be a good idea, because no one would whisper anymore knowing that there is a gf in every game. It would be the same as a spy reading the mafia chat: it would be useless except for mind games.
I also disagree with jesters being unable to haunt. Winning as jester would become way less rewarding, making the role boring. However, I do think they should get a vest of some sort.
Also, I think mayors should be able to be healed by doctors, since they can be protected by any other TP anyway.

[DragonClaw66]

I don't think allowing gfs to read whispers would be a good idea, because no one would whisper anymore knowing that there is a gf in every game. It would be the same as a spy reading the mafia chat: it would be useless except for mind games.
I also disagree with jesters being unable to haunt. Winning as jester would become way less rewarding, making the role boring. However, I do think they should get a vest of some sort.
Also, I think mayors should be able to be healed by doctors, since they can be protected by any other TP anyway.

Honestly, you make a good point about the Godfather; whispering would be completely useless.

Fun is kind of subjective here; I feel like winning as this Jester would be just as fun.

I actually forgot to add that part; I also think that Mayors should be able to be healed by Doctors.

[Pixies]

Mayor
Problem: It is now too weak when compared to the Jailor and Retributionist.
Fix: Can now be healed by Doctors. Gains another ability that occurs during the voting period (unknown).

Retributionist
Problem: Same as the Jailor.
Fix: I have no idea, but it needs a nerf.

Here is the things with both of these roles - the Mayor role was once healable by doctors, even when they were revealed. They could also recieve/send whispers. When the Devs updated this role, both of those were dropped to where they cannot whisper when they revealed and only the BG/Jailor can protect them. I think one or the other (either whispering or healing by doc) should come back for the mayor role.

Now with the Retributionist, I think it needs to be changed from Town Support to Neutral Evil or Neutral Chaos. In almost every game, a ret is easily confirmed by people when they are forced to revive the first dead townie (which sucks when the first dead townie is someone like a MEDIUM.), then a handful of people are all like "Nerf the ret" or just gives up. I think they should change it similar to the Necromancer in Coven, but instead of using 1 person's ability at night, they revive the person, regardless of their faction.

[Joacgroso]

At this point making mayors unhealable is stupid, since they can still be protected by any other TP + transporters. They should be able to be protected by everyone or no one, to reduce swing. Also, it's pretty weird that they can't receive whispers while other roles like amnesiacs, retris, jailors, transporters (in classic), veterans and revived players, who can also start whisper games, can. Now that bmers can read whispers, there's already discouragement to play whisper games, so I don't think that nerf is needed.
About retris, I think the least that should be done to them is reducing their priority so they can't revive people the night the die, and even then they would still be OP due to their confirming ability.
Also, about the neutral ret suggestion: how would that work? If they revive someone evil, town would just lynch them again. And what would be their goal? Reviving someone? In that case, they would still revive the first townie who dies so they don't risk being killed before reviving,

[BlastingOff]

Mayor
Problem: It is now too weak when compared to the Jailor and Retributionist.
Fix: Can now be healed by Doctors. Gains another ability that occurs during the voting period (unknown).

Retributionist
Problem: Same as the Jailor.
Fix: I have no idea, but it needs a nerf.

Here is the things with both of these roles - the Mayor role was once healable by doctors, even when they were revealed. They could also recieve/send whispers. When the Devs updated this role, both of those were dropped to where they cannot whisper when they revealed and only the BG/Jailor can protect them. I think one or the other (either whispering or healing by doc) should come back for the mayor role.

Now with the Retributionist, I think it needs to be changed from Town Support to Neutral Evil or Neutral Chaos. In almost every game, a ret is easily confirmed by people when they are forced to revive the first dead townie (which sucks when the first dead townie is someone like a MEDIUM.), then a handful of people are all like "Nerf the ret" or just gives up. I think they should change it similar to the Necromancer in Coven, but instead of using 1 person's ability at night, they revive the person, regardless of their faction.

Revive the Mafioso only to see them lynched on the same day.

This is why an "evil" Retri is not a thing for Role Ideas

Any retri rework has to involve interaction with dead somehow, as that's what devs generally want.

Regarding the BMer rework, I have seen and prefer the one that makes it like a LO that can still read whispers. It helps making LO not insta-confirmable once he gets a visit correct.

Exe should also be reworked honestly, some Exes decide to side with Town anyways, so mislynching a Town isn't really harming the town and do not benefit evildoers. Not sure how it's gonna be reworked, though.

I don't see a point in removing Mafioso. If you apply Tactical Mafia, Mafioso can just be reworked into something useful, so Mafia has a guaranteed advantage.

I have seen for SK an idea about giving it the ability to throw its knfie at someone during the day once per game, thus effectively killing them during day phase, though that's probs hard to implement and could be really game-changing

that's it, for now.

[lalasex]

> ret needs some help

LMAO honestly...

[Koleszar]

I wish you would let Spy read PMs again and remove his ability to see Mafia Visits at night and let him with Bugs and Whispers.

[BasicFourLife]

Roles that could be changed: everything

[DragonClaw66]

Roles that could be changed: everything

Honestly, this has some truth to it. Few are perfect, some are alright, a bunch need some big boi changes.

[BasicFourLife]

Roles that could be changed: everything

Honestly, this has some truth to it. Few are perfect, some are alright, a bunch need some big boi changes.

ill find a mistake with every role

[swagmm23]

Yeah, i have to disagree with the amount of nerfs that the Jailor gets.He is overpowered for sure, but all of these nerfs will make him too weak IMO.

Lowering his executions to 2 is alright, but weakening his execution attack and the defense he provides to the jailee is a bridge too far.

[Yummysht]

Playing as mafia is very hard. GF comes up as BG/GF/Arso in invests will and when they claim BG, they immediately being considered as susp. The game is too hard for GF.

[BasicFourLife]

or accept the fact that Town of Salem is a badly designed game, also chances of being invested are pretty mf low and you should just consider it the same as Sheriff/Non GF interactions

[swagmm23]

or accept the fact that Town of Salem is a badly designed game, also chances of being invested are pretty mf low and you should just consider it the same as Sheriff/Non GF interactions

And yet, people still play this game.

[Luixls]

These are more like opinion since im too lazy to write problem and fixes.

Jailor
Perfect as it is. It´s supposed to be the most powerful role, and its supposed to get the job done. Town SHOULD rely on him, and the counterbalance to jailor lies in its insane calling and chat-checking/scum reading without as much time as the other townie roles since he also needs to question people in night chat. This role rewards good players and punishes bad players, thats way it should be.

Retributionist
People always call retri OP, but I think it´s fine. More powerful than most rules sure, but if no one dies at the start hes just a sitting duck, he can get RBed, his targets could leave the game, and he can be targeted by exe. He has no way of getting leads. Only way we can ¨nerf¨ him is disabling night-chat whispering (when the night timer is over and you can whisper people, and the whisper comes up under the night section of the chat) and perhaps even early-day whispering (when the game its calling out everyone who died) that way he can get fake CC´ed by evils more easily since he cant just instantly confirm himself. But then again, good evil players can just copy his technique and prepare fake whispers with someone they suspect is getting Rezzed

Spy
Just like the jailor in which this role rewards good players and punishes bad ones, but on the more extreme side... And I mean EXTREMELY EXTREME. Good players totally counter a mafia team with 2 random mafia that aren´t forger and janitor. Everything else is just mafia shooting themselves in the foot by confirming non-mafia roles while visiting, while bad players won´t have 2 clues about what is going on. Its still better than the old spy for sure. Perhaps a fix would be making the bug faaaar better, for example ¨Your target was visited by a investigative role.¨ ¨Your target was visited by a protective role.¨ ¨Your target was visited by a evil role.¨ And removing mafia visits alltogether, or seeing only 1 non-kill mafia visit per night.

Veteran
Vigilate´s better.

Vigilante
Shooting a town? Game´s lost. Proffesional scum readers get work done tho.

Bodyguard and Doctor
Leave it like they are until they add another TP. Don´t really see one as more impactful as the other.

Transporter
Only a bit OP in the way it can easily confirm himself, but its fine. Until there are 2 of them. And then there might be 3 of them. And then there might even be 4 of them, and there aren´t good enough players to understand the way multiple-transporting works with the number list and all TI´s get their results screwed and nobody understands what is going on anymore, so people just stop trying and let Jesus take the wheel until either the transporters die or the game ends. I don´t think making them a unique role is the correct fix since mafia, with their already low win%, usually claim transporter and transported between themselves to have SOME kind of teamplay, and the legit transporter could just shut down that claim if hes unique. Perhaps making them have a cooldown of 1 night after transport might be the way to go, and perhaps making them vulnerable to RB and witching.

Disguiser
He needs to die to get its job done. Mafia loses a vote. Town figures out hes disguiser 80% of the time. Useless. Might as well surrender when you have 2 of these as your RM slots.
Completely rework it or remove it. Or merge it with another class...

Forger
Useless on N1. Then, practically useless if you don´t know your target´s role. And if you DO know your target´s role but he posted his will beforehand you have 30 seconds to imitate it AND think of new fake info to write down. Merge it with framer.

Framer
You kidding me right? Merge it with forger/disguiser and choose one of the latter to do during the night. When framing someone you also disguise as your target, so you aren´t always framer, vampire, jester. FUCK IT, go crazy, if your target gets hanged during the day he comes up as framer. Reverse disguising.

Jester
He dies too easily during the night. But the rest is fine, good players find a way.

Now we all know NK has the most problems of them all:

Arsonist
The fix for this guy is to do nothing N1, and then having 2 action per night onwards. Decide to douse 2 targets per night, or douse and ignite one target in a single night. High risk, high reward.

Serial Killer
Best NK role. Gets hard countered by being jailed/RBed. Perhaps give him a 1-time ¨psycho mode block¨ that doesn´t automatically kill the jailor when jailed and the escort/consort when RBed. Example, he gets jailed n1? He doesn´t attack, but if he gets RBed n2 during the same game he stabs and dabs.

Werewolf
Attack a single person on non-full moon nights, rampage on full moon. Doesn´t get 1-time psycho mode block SK gets.

[LevinSnakesRise]

Closing for necro.