ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

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ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby SgtSpanky » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:57 pm

I've played the game for about 6 years yadayada... I stopped playing a few years ago when there wasn't an elo system yet and the role list included neutral benign and an "any" role. I had issues with that list but even more so with this ranked system since I restarted playing quite a few months ago. I'm going to list some of my likes and concerns with each system and in general review some changes that I think will make the game more balanced.

OLD RANKED SYSTEM:
I liked the fact that NB roles were included in this. It allowed some freedom and more mystery in determining the role list. It also added another way to weasle out of something as an evil role. I liked the length that games usually lasted. Games in new ranked rarely end up in plot-twisted showdowns. These are all stomps in one way or another. In general I felt like the game was relatively balanced. Evils and town I felt had an equal chance to win when played right.

However, there were some issues with the "any" role that I felt made it unbalanced. I never thought "any" was truely random. Many times I found it to be 4 Mafia with the 4th coming from "any". Which seemingly made the game unfair, especially if NB wasn't town sided. If the "any" really was random I think a lot more balanced games would have come of it. I also thought the lack of mystery in town roles made it harder on town back then actually. Less randomness I felt made it easier for evils to lie as a certain role but nowadays users are much better at determining roles, etc. Maybe 1 more RT slot would've been better than 2 TP slots. Finally, the NB spot did make games quite tipsy (ie. on a knifes edge) especially in 4 mafia games. Maybe if this had some slight adjustments to either an RT spot or another unique role, the games could be balanced and more interesting.

IN SUMMATION of OLD RANKED:
I thought I was much better than this current ranked. Maybe some slight tweaks in the form of another RT slot or 2 and true balancing of the "any" position and finally a balanced between having an "any" and the NB spot would've made the game quite fun and interesting.

NEW RANKED:
The only thing I like about new ranked is that there are more RT slots. These allow more freedom for evils to get things done at least. Oh and the ELO system is like...cool I guess and we have one now which is nice.

There are SO MANY things wrong with this new system. I do want to start by saying that Town roles themselves aren't OP. Sure some are pretty powerful but its the system itself that enables some of these roles to be so good. The meta that many ranked games have also allow good players to easily identify many of the roles without any disputes. I would suggest however, that maybe some more helpful Mafia roles be put into effect as some of the RM are absolutely useless like forger.

Now I'll get to gameplay. I find so many games have NUMEROUS requirements for evil roles to even have win-conditions. You need at least 2 if not 3 evils to have good claims and 3 or more to help shift towns focus. That alone is hard. You also need the neutral roles and mafia to help each other at least a little bit to have any chance at winning. Finally, even if all those happen, you need at least 1 member of town to "throw" the game by evil roles' confusion and misinformation, if not 2 townies to throw if not all evils do a good job. This is so rare now that games will end simply because evil roles don't have the resources or numbers to put up a fight. Sometimes of course, evils get lucky early on and steamroll the game, but this happens so much more often for town especially at higher ELO's. The winrates for mafia I believe are very low and for neutral evils it has to be astronomically low. What I'm saying here is the game is SO town sided and it takes a TON of win-conditions to occur for evil roles to win, especially arso/ww/sk. Like the town really has to be stupid and passive to not win.

To sum up: the role list heavily favours town and needs more freedom in the form of "any" or NB combination.

I would suggest a revert to old ranked, keeping the elo system but slightly modifying the role list to include NB again and truely making "any" fully random. That and adding in another RT.
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby swagmm23 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:00 am

SgtSpanky wrote:I've played the game for about 6 years yadayada... I stopped playing a few years ago when there wasn't an elo system yet and the role list included neutral benign and an "any" role. I had issues with that list but even more so with this ranked system since I restarted playing quite a few months ago. I'm going to list some of my likes and concerns with each system and in general review some changes that I think will make the game more balanced.

OLD RANKED SYSTEM:
I liked the fact that NB roles were included in this. It allowed some freedom and more mystery in determining the role list. It also added another way to weasle out of something as an evil role. I liked the length that games usually lasted. Games in new ranked rarely end up in plot-twisted showdowns. These are all stomps in one way or another. In general I felt like the game was relatively balanced. Evils and town I felt had an equal chance to win when played right.

However, there were some issues with the "any" role that I felt made it unbalanced. I never thought "any" was truely random. Many times I found it to be 4 Mafia with the 4th coming from "any". Which seemingly made the game unfair, especially if NB wasn't town sided. If the "any" really was random I think a lot more balanced games would have come of it. I also thought the lack of mystery in town roles made it harder on town back then actually. Less randomness I felt made it easier for evils to lie as a certain role but nowadays users are much better at determining roles, etc. Maybe 1 more RT slot would've been better than 2 TP slots. Finally, the NB spot did make games quite tipsy (ie. on a knifes edge) especially in 4 mafia games. Maybe if this had some slight adjustments to either an RT spot or another unique role, the games could be balanced and more interesting.

IN SUMMATION of OLD RANKED:
I thought I was much better than this current ranked. Maybe some slight tweaks in the form of another RT slot or 2 and true balancing of the "any" position and finally a balanced between having an "any" and the NB spot would've made the game quite fun and interesting.

NEW RANKED:
The only thing I like about new ranked is that there are more RT slots. These allow more freedom for evils to get things done at least. Oh and the ELO system is like...cool I guess and we have one now which is nice.

There are SO MANY things wrong with this new system. I do want to start by saying that Town roles themselves aren't OP. Sure some are pretty powerful but its the system itself that enables some of these roles to be so good. The meta that many ranked games have also allow good players to easily identify many of the roles without any disputes. I would suggest however, that maybe some more helpful Mafia roles be put into effect as some of the RM are absolutely useless like forger.

Now I'll get to gameplay. I find so many games have NUMEROUS requirements for evil roles to even have win-conditions. You need at least 2 if not 3 evils to have good claims and 3 or more to help shift towns focus. That alone is hard. You also need the neutral roles and mafia to help each other at least a little bit to have any chance at winning. Finally, even if all those happen, you need at least 1 member of town to "throw" the game by evil roles' confusion and misinformation, if not 2 townies to throw if not all evils do a good job. This is so rare now that games will end simply because evil roles don't have the resources or numbers to put up a fight. Sometimes of course, evils get lucky early on and steamroll the game, but this happens so much more often for town especially at higher ELO's. The winrates for mafia I believe are very low and for neutral evils it has to be astronomically low. What I'm saying here is the game is SO town sided and it takes a TON of win-conditions to occur for evil roles to win, especially arso/ww/sk. Like the town really has to be stupid and passive to not win.

To sum up: the role list heavily favours town and needs more freedom in the form of "any" or NB combination.

I would suggest a revert to old ranked, keeping the elo system but slightly modifying the role list to include NB again and truely making "any" fully random. That and adding in another RT.


I agree. Replacing a Town role with an NB and 1-2 more town roles with RT wouldn't be too bad of an idea.

Though,i think this thread belongs more to Suggestions than here.
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby fwogcarf » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:11 pm

this here is truly an epic gamer
Wow! That was extremely funny! Please repost that again!
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:47 pm

make the setup more townsided :ok_hand:
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby BasicFourLife » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:53 am

-Blah blah blah-

Your suggestions are not any better than the ones made by BMG. You shouldn’t make threads like this, especially considering that your changes somehow make the game worse (how is this even possible). NB is trash for Ranked and changing the rolelist only makes the game more trash. The roles need to be fixed, the rolelist is not the problem. The only changes the rolelist could have is adding more RTs, replacing the NK or one of the Mafia with a RT once necessary buffs and nerfs are done, the Mafioso with a Mafia Support if Mafia Tactical kills get added and that’s about it.
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby lalasex » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:29 am

BasicFourLife is confirmed metaworm


gg this game is already dying bc of incompetency of community and incompetency of BMG


no one give a fck bout this game...we all made this game dying for sure lol
RIP Town of Salem 2017-2018

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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby Helicooler » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:18 am

BasicFourLife wrote:-Blah blah blah-

Your suggestions are not any better than the ones made by BMG. You shouldn’t make threads like this, especially considering that your changes somehow make the game worse (how is this even possible). NB is trash for Ranked and changing the rolelist only makes the game more trash. The roles need to be fixed, the rolelist is not the problem. The only changes the rolelist could have is adding more RTs, replacing the NK or one of the Mafia with a RT once necessary buffs and nerfs are done, the Mafioso with a Mafia Support if Mafia Tactical kills get added and that’s about it.
So hidden hiddens but then SEY COMES AROUND
lalasex wrote:BasicFourLife is confirmed metaworm


gg this game is already dying bc of incompetency of community and incompetency of BMG


no one give a fck bout this game...we all made this game dying for sure lol

yeah you got banned tho
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby ARIANNUHAN » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:34 am

I think removing an rt/ti with nb/any and one mafia with NT(non town i.e ne nk mafia) brings more chaos and fun to the games as I have run simulations and it works like a charm to make win rate balanced .Town vs evil(mafia and nk combined) has a winrate of 52% vs 48%. now the ranked mode is kind of dull. Mafia sometimes leaves. can't blame them.
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby BasicFourLife » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:30 am

ARIANNUHAN wrote:I think removing an rt/ti with nb/any and one mafia with NT(non town i.e ne nk mafia) brings more chaos and fun to the games as I have run simulations and it works like a charm to make win rate balanced .Town vs evil(mafia and nk combined) has a winrate of 52% vs 48%. now the ranked mode is kind of dull. Mafia sometimes leaves. can't blame them.

what did u base ur simulations on i wonder
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby Sting » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:40 am

3 RT is more swingy than NB ever was in the old role list. NB actually had a purpose, to this day nobody's ever told me what the problem was with Kingmakers. It's a much better way to decide a game than having a ret, mayor and RT bg which just makes the game unplayable. The only bad thing about NB was Amnesiac when it couldn't choose unique roles, so players who wanted to win obviously choose the first town role due to the limited evil roles there were but that was fixed.

Especially with the d1 jailor meta that was really popular last year (idk if it's still happening in high elo as it's been ages since ive played) but still
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby MysticMismagius » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:32 am

Sting wrote:to this day nobody's ever told me what the problem was with Kingmakers.
The problem with Kingmakers (in my opinion) is that they take the power of whether you win or lose out of your hands. It just feels gross when you know you've done everything right, find yourself in a 1v1v1 with a Mafioso who coasted on your Exe claim, only to get lynched because a member of the Mafia was the kingmaker's "Bae" (yes, this happened. I was SK, Kingmaker was Doc.).

This isn't exactly avoidable even with the current ranked list (an example of a 1v1v1 in Ranked would be Arso/GF/Medium) but NB roles, by nature of not being part of a faction, are more likely than most other roles to be kingmakers.
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Re: ranked is severely unbalanced and needs changes

Postby kmn1999 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:06 pm

I gotta agree with you here. I still find the game fun because I feel like it's not that hard to win as maf (although it's basically impossible to win as nk), but the plot twists at the end of old games were a ton of fun. NB was great, especially amne, cuz it just added a lot. If anything, NB is what I really want back.
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