Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Canned)

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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby AlbanixAnubibus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:10 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:If this goes Blue, do we Cucu 4-2?

Ignore me, we don't.
So we just continue 4-8?

We don't? You're in conflict, but Cucumber meta still applies. You're still forced to play blue if Bluedetroyer hands you a choice.

Oh. I thought we didn't play people in conflict.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:25 pm

UzayAltay wrote:A lot to say .
First , Rick , If You assume Phone is town , Do You think How good/bad our situation is ?
Second , Alba/Timur , Timur's early Game seems bad , but Idk .
Ejjinami shading ??? I cant see that .
Also Rick , Why You are making arguments based Everyone Will play optimal ? I saw You doing This for reading Phone More liberal , which Dont seems to me make much sense .
Also Rick , Why You wanted Blue to be checked . IMO , Alba should have checked Phone , If Alba checks Phone as Liberal ED can choose Alba , and If This come red Alba+Phone is both NL
Which is an Interesting situation that We start 0-3 but know 2 Fascist
If it comes Blue , Idk We can continue normally probably . At least situation is 2-1 , and We had More information on there .
If Phone is checked as F by Alba , Than ED could choose me , ( saying The part after there from your PoV ) , and If it comes F , We had a ton of information from there .

1. Don't know. Unlike a couple others, I'm not claiming to have the game virtually solved.

2. I'm making arguments where people play optimally because I'm assuming the worlds where Liberals have to face are the worst case scenario that Fascists give us. If Fascists aren't capable of putting us in those spots, then that's a good thing. I'm perfectly happy if Fascists are making suboptimal plays that weaken their position. Until then, I'll brace for impact.

3. No. Backwards checking is suboptimal. You're not checking an incoming President, which puts less pressure on Presidents to pass blue policies, and Cucumber Meta does not apply when you backwards check.

4. Albanix is term locked- even if she were Liberal, ED couldn't pick her. Also, she's in conflict. She shouldn't ever get another government unless we put her in a situation where a Fascist!Her has to pay harsh consequences for playing a Red- like being an outted Fascist by mechanics, or by eating a bullet.

5. Uzay, stop suggesting governments where people who have already had a government get another. There are certain meta conditions where this is okay, for specific reasons, and I've gone over them. We just can't give you another government the same way we can with people involved with a check. Those people are basically being forced at gunpoint to play Blue or have everyone know they're a Fascist. You wouldn't.

6. Also, in the world where Albanix checks Phone as Liberal but then conflicts ED, only Albanix is confirmed Fascist. Phone would still be up in the air. Just suboptimal all around.



In short, now that we have two Liberal Peeked players about to become President, we should be trying to abuse that kind of power to make it extremely difficult for a Fascist policy to get played. Once we're done doing that, we should return to the standard order so that we learn something about people we don't know before Hitler Zone begins, like usual.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:29 pm

AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:If this goes Blue, do we Cucu 4-2?

Ignore me, we don't.
So we just continue 4-8?

We don't? You're in conflict, but Cucumber meta still applies. You're still forced to play blue if Bluedetroyer hands you a choice.

Oh. I thought we didn't play people in conflict.

But... Cucumber meta still applies...

It's just as much of a threat to you too- you card conflicted timur. Why else would you do that to him unless you were different alignments? Conflicting Bluedetroyer makes it extremely likely that timur is Liberal.

I don't think you need to card conflict timur if he were a Fascist either... If you had just claimed FFF, then you basically conflict timur instead of Phone.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:32 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:If this goes Blue, do we Cucu 4-2?

Ignore me, we don't.
So we just continue 4-8?

We don't? You're in conflict, but Cucumber meta still applies. You're still forced to play blue if Bluedetroyer hands you a choice.

Oh. I thought we didn't play people in conflict.

But... Cucumber meta still applies...

It's just as much of a threat to you too- you card conflicted timur. Why else would you do that to him unless you were different alignments? Conflicting Bluedetroyer makes it extremely likely that timur is Liberal.

I don't think you need to card conflict timur if he were a Fascist either... If you had just claimed FFF, then you basically conflict timur instead of Phone.

Conflict Phone instead of timur*

I just woke up, bear with me. <_<
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Arcthurus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:34 pm

you totally lost me on that last post rick ngl


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Arcthurus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:37 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:If this goes Blue, do we Cucu 4-2?

Ignore me, we don't.
So we just continue 4-8?

We don't? You're in conflict, but Cucumber meta still applies. You're still forced to play blue if Bluedetroyer hands you a choice.

Oh. I thought we didn't play people in conflict.

But... Cucumber meta still applies...

It's just as much of a threat to you too- you card conflicted timur. Why else would you do that to him unless you were different alignments? Conflicting Bluedetroyer makes it extremely likely that timur is Liberal.

I don't think you need to card conflict timur if he were a Fascist either... If you had just claimed FFF, then you basically conflict Phone instead of timur


i think i understand the second line as youre saying if we do a alb-blue gov after this fasc alb gets in hot water and make it likely timur is the lib of the conflict okay
the last line to be specific i dont get though how does phone factor into this


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby AlbanixAnubibus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:39 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:If this goes Blue, do we Cucu 4-2?

Ignore me, we don't.
So we just continue 4-8?

We don't? You're in conflict, but Cucumber meta still applies. You're still forced to play blue if Bluedetroyer hands you a choice.

Oh. I thought we didn't play people in conflict.

But... Cucumber meta still applies...

It's just as much of a threat to you too- you card conflicted timur. Why else would you do that to him unless you were different alignments? Conflicting Bluedetroyer makes it extremely likely that timur is Liberal.

I don't think you need to card conflict timur if he were a Fascist either... If you had just claimed FFF, then you basically conflict timur instead of Phone.

Oh.
I got that Cucumber meta still applied.
I guess I just worded my post unclearly.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby AlbanixAnubibus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:41 pm

Arcthurus wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:
AlbanixAnubibus wrote:If this goes Blue, do we Cucu 4-2?

Ignore me, we don't.
So we just continue 4-8?

We don't? You're in conflict, but Cucumber meta still applies. You're still forced to play blue if Bluedetroyer hands you a choice.

Oh. I thought we didn't play people in conflict.

But... Cucumber meta still applies...

It's just as much of a threat to you too- you card conflicted timur. Why else would you do that to him unless you were different alignments? Conflicting Bluedetroyer makes it extremely likely that timur is Liberal.

I don't think you need to card conflict timur if he were a Fascist either... If you had just claimed FFF, then you basically conflict Phone instead of timur


i think i understand the second line as youre saying if we do a alb-blue gov after this fasc alb gets in hot water and make it likely timur is the lib of the conflict okay
the last line to be specific i dont get though how does phone factor into this

If F!Me claimed FFF after Phone claimed FFF, unless we get a flood of L's in the next few governments, one of us has to be lying.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Arcthurus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:42 pm

that doesnt sound like a conflict though not in the same way as contradicting card passes


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby AlbanixAnubibus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:43 pm

Arcthurus wrote:that doesnt sound like a conflict though not in the same way as contradicting card passes

That's why it's called a 'soft conflict' on SHIO.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Arcthurus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:44 pm

what kinds of other soft conflicts are there


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:46 pm

Arcthurus wrote:you totally lost me on that last post rick ngl

Where did I lose you, exactly?

Oh, the phone bit.

Uzay was suggesting that checking Bluedetroyer was poor play. He was saying that Albanix should have checked Phone. That way, if Albanix says Phone is Liberal, then ED picks Albanix as Chancellor, and then if Albanix conflicts, Albanix and Phone are confirmed fascists.

Except Albanix in this case can be Fascist and Phone could be Liberal. Phone would be the Chancellor that proves what he wanted. And also- Albanix is term locked.

In any case, we wanted information on Bluedetroyer anyway. He hasn't done anything yet, whereas we do have information on Phone. So what Uzay was suggesting was just poor in the first place. Our plan right now is fine.

Pit the Liberal checks against each other. Should be an easy Liberal policy in an apparently 5b 6r deck. After that, we can discuss if Albanix should get another government or not.

Arcthurus wrote:that doesnt sound like a conflict though not in the same way as contradicting card passes

It isn't, but it is statistically likely to be the case. A pretty safe assumption to make 90% of the time. And phone would still be Fascist from her viewpoint half of the other 10% of the time.

It wouldn't be impossible for Phone and her to be Liberal- it would just have been unlikely enough to have projected it anyway. That's why: if Albanix is Fascist, and drew LFF, if a Fascist policy gets played, she has a choice, which is conflict timur, or conflict Phone by proxy.

She doesn't have to Fas-Fas conflict in her position. Hence, if she conflicts Bluedetroyer, Timur is extremely likely to be Liberal.

And Albanix would understand this.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:00 pm

You know, it also just occurred to me, I don't get why Uzay is asking me why I'm considering next steps for people playing optimally as Fascist when the Policy Track is already 0-2 in favor of the Fascists. :|

In case it needs saying, this situation is pretty damn not ideal for the Liberals to be in. Only four people have seen a government so far, and we're already on the brink of Hitler Zone. This is not good.

And to have gotten to this point already, yeah, I'm going to assume that Fascists have already been making good choices.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Bluedetroyer » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:09 pm

Who will I be picking as chancellor?
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Bluedetroyer wrote:Who will I be picking as chancellor?

We'll see. Don't rush it once you get the presidency.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:22 pm

Arcthurus wrote:what kinds of other soft conflicts are there

In 7 player, when two pairs of conflicts exist, leaving 3 players out of conflict, that in itself becomes a conflict consisting of 2 Liberals and 1 Fascist most of the time (unless one of the pairs was a Fas Fas conflict). In these cases, often Hitler will be in the trio, so it's usually just as scary trying to sort out the trio than it will be to try and sort out the pairs.

That's most of the mechanics surround conflicts. You have hard card conflicts, hard peek conflicts, then soft conflicts on card probability, then finally a conflict by elimination.
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Arcthurus » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:32 pm

alright

so are we ready to ja this and move on


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby ejjinami » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:49 pm

dota2reporter wrote:because his anger and overall tone seems genuine
hes tryharding so hard it just screams liberal imo

and idk i'll check timur later
doed that mean you think alba is lying?

I don't agree on tone being that AI here, or at least in that case
but ok, I guess

And no, it doesn’t mean I’m confident in alb being scum. At least one of them is scum and the only thing I know about them is that timur is always shitty and that as a player alb is way stronger than him in like all aspects. None of that is AI
I’m like 99,99% confident that unless sth happens and one of them gets cleared by game mechanics or sth, that’s a duo that I’d probably just want to avoid, forget about and have nothing to do with until the game ends


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby ejjinami » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:53 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:The other reason, Dota, is because I offered Phone multiple outs of being forced to pick his Fascists (pick me as Chancellor, investigate Bluedetroyer) Regular Fascists generally get annoyed at constantly having to involve themselves with other Fascists because it's much less safe to throw Fascists under the bus as opposed to Liberals. Phone didn't even argue. He even ignored people like you who tried to suggest that he do something else and went immediately with what I said because it had meta logic behind it.

That's just not behavior I would expect someone if they had intimate knowledge of the game- especially when Fascist!Phone knows I'm a Liberal.

that's actually a really good argument :/


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby ejjinami » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:09 pm

IS it ok to assume that considering how many fas policy claims there were, there SHOULD BE at least 1 lib card among those that roll now?

And IF ED chooses blue and there’s a conflict, it would mean that the scums are either:
ED + phone + (one of alb / timur)
Or
Blue + alb

IF both of them are scum, the team would have to be exactly:
ED + Blue + alb + phone

Which would probably mean that hitler is among Blue / ED / phone and that there’s a big chance for getting a green policy enabled anyway

Ngl, trying to understand all of that took me a while
But yeah, that’s an interesting concept


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby ejjinami » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:15 pm

timurtheking wrote:Im Liberal. Albanix is bad, dont trust their peek results.

As a facist why would i insta go red and let a liberal leader person get a peek it’s stupid

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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby ejjinami » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:17 pm

Arcthurus wrote:alright

so are we ready to ja this and move on

I'm ok with this btw


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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Yes, ja this please
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Government 3

Postby UzayAltay » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:32 am

Rickdaily12 wrote:
Arcthurus wrote:you totally lost me on that last post rick ngl

Where did I lose you, exactly?

Oh, the phone bit.

Uzay was suggesting that checking Bluedetroyer was poor play. He was saying that Albanix should have checked Phone. That way, if Albanix says Phone is Liberal, then ED picks Albanix as Chancellor, and then if Albanix conflicts, Albanix and Phone are confirmed fascists.

Except Albanix in this case can be Fascist and Phone could be Liberal. Phone would be the Chancellor that proves what he wanted. And also- Albanix is term locked.

In any case, we wanted information on Bluedetroyer anyway. He hasn't done anything yet, whereas we do have information on Phone. So what Uzay was suggesting was just poor in the first place. Our plan right now is fine.

Pit the Liberal checks against each other. Should be an easy Liberal policy in an apparently 5b 6r deck. After that, we can discuss if Albanix should get another government or not.

Arcthurus wrote:that doesnt sound like a conflict though not in the same way as contradicting card passes

It isn't, but it is statistically likely to be the case. A pretty safe assumption to make 90% of the time. And phone would still be Fascist from her viewpoint half of the other 10% of the time.

It wouldn't be impossible for Phone and her to be Liberal- it would just have been unlikely enough to have projected it anyway. That's why: if Albanix is Fascist, and drew LFF, if a Fascist policy gets played, she has a choice, which is conflict timur, or conflict Phone by proxy.

She doesn't have to Fas-Fas conflict in her position. Hence, if she conflicts Bluedetroyer, Timur is extremely likely to be Liberal.

And Albanix would understand this.

Btw I probably screwed names Because It wasnt What I intended .
Let me rewrite that Because This version make no sense .
IF Albanix L-check Phone , ED make Phone Chancellor , If that comes red , Phone is F , and due Phone is F Alba is F .
If Albanix F-check Phone , Than ED make me Chancellor , If we conflict , Than there is A ton of information here , but Basicly ( from spec PoV ) there is either 2 or 3 Fascist in that 5 . If ED claims they pulled FFF , Than We had 1 conflict + 1 outed F ( Phone ) , which is A Safe Hitler shot .
Here is The thing : If ED / Blue comes red , We had Almost Same situation with Blue being here instead me ( 5-way conflict , or Phone being outed Fascist ) . If Blue was checked as F , We had now A 3-way conflict instead 5 , and as I guess Will play ED/5.president or ED/Phone .
Why one is better Than other ?
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Re: Secret Hitler III: Revenge of the Fascists (Policy 3)

Postby Chemist1422 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:19 am

Everyone ja’d whee

No more posting policy cards going out soon:tm:
mist ~ she/her

i guess this is goodbye?
(still here for danganronpa i guess)


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