Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

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Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby JSange » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:14 pm

I can't see this as cheating. Definitively, cheating would be something that gives you an unfair edge in a game. I had full dialogues with my team and in day chat discussing leads and pushing people, contributing to the game. I was banned because I responded to someone's message in Spanish; ironically, stating that I do not speak Spanish. I said this because I thought it was funny. It was the only thing I said in Spanish for that entire match, was that I did not speak Spanish. For that one message I was suspended for cheating. It did not give me an unfair advantage, other than hopefully making a few other people chuckle, as per my intent. I have spoken German on occasion, I have spoken broken Japanese in romanji in response to anime-themes discussions or names. These things are done in humor and have less bearing on the outcome of the game than someone speaking nonsense or speaking entirely in emojis for their character's theme. And, as opposed to those people, I never said these things in an effort to affect the outcome of the game. More importantly, these games in which I said these things were unranked. Coven Chaos, generally. In what way would saying one message in another language, in an effort to joke, considered cheating if not only did it not affect the outcome of the game but was never intended to? This seems to be - I hope it is - an error in the automation, because for a human being to do something so asinine would pose a need to reevaluate whether said human has the psychological aptitude to be in any position of power whatsoever.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby JSange » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:18 pm

"Well what if a player is trying to trick people into thinking they only speak that language" that person gets hanged and nothing more is said. If they're jester that might be cheating, and attempting to engage town entirely through that language might be considered cheating by making town think they can't contribute. Sure. But one message? In response to another player, no less? No, there is no way in which a person without cognitively impairing conditions could ever, within any level of reason, consider that to be cheating. And if the person making that call DOES have such a condition then their judgements cannot be taken into a consideration which affects another person, they should be asked to take leave and seek medical help before returning to that duty.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby Flavorable » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:26 pm

We don't have the time, nor the inclination, to translate every single person's message in every report where someone speaks a foreign language. And it's not just about staff, it's the fact that people in your game cannot understand you, and thus this leads in the game being influenced, because players may well assume you are cheating.

The fact that you were oblivious to the rules, and thought it would be funny, does not make this rule exempt. It's been a rule since the start of the game, and this is not changing. You agreed to the rules when you created your account. If you don't agree with them, you should have refrained from clicking on "I agree".
Furthermore: It does not matter which gamemode you play, rules are rules and they count in every gamemode.

As for:
for a human being to do something so asinine would pose a need to reevaluate whether said human has the psychological aptitude to be in any position of power whatsoever.

This entire statement is both unnecessary and downright rude. It's neither the jurors' or the Trial staff's fault that you assumed that being ignorant about the rules, or figuring they don't apply to you, wouldn't end in a suspension.

The rules were made by the Devs, this entire situation is in said rules word for word. The fact that you decided to ignore those rules is on you, not on anyone else.

This is not a rule that is subject to change.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby Flavorable » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:30 pm

JSange wrote:"Well what if a player is trying to trick people into thinking they only speak that language" that person gets hanged and nothing more is said. If they're jester that might be cheating, and attempting to engage town entirely through that language might be considered cheating by making town think they can't contribute. Sure. But one message? In response to another player, no less? No, there is no way in which a person without cognitively impairing conditions could ever, within any level of reason, consider that to be cheating. And if the person making that call DOES have such a condition then their judgements cannot be taken into a consideration which affects another person, they should be asked to take leave and seek medical help before returning to that duty.


First and foremost: Use the editing button if you have more to add, don't reply to your own post, this is considered spam. This is the second verbal warning I had to give you in a short timespan. I HIGHLY suggest you read the forum rules and abide by them, unless you're looking to be punished on here as well.

there is no way in which a person without cognitively impairing conditions could ever, within any level of reason, consider that to be cheating. And if the person making that call DOES have such a condition then their judgements cannot be taken into a consideration which affects another person, they should be asked to take leave and seek medical help before returning to that duty.


You can consider this your third and final verbal warning: If you continue insulting our staff in ANY fashion, you will also be suspended from these forums.

If there was ever a moment for you to actually start following rules, it'd be now.

Staff is not responsible for you refusing to play by the rules.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby JSange » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:34 pm

Do we report people for using the word "Shinigami" as their in-game name then? Do we report players who use loan words from other languages? How far does this decision extend? I've seen plenty of confusion regarding the term "tp," this is accepted by the majority of the community to mean town protective, but there are many players who might mistake it to mean "transporter." This is just in-game lingo that is generally accepted, though not necessarily communicated to newer players, and definitively effects the outcome of a game. Should there be a clause regarding this?
In regards to your third warning, my statement was not intended to be rude, I apologize if this offended someone in the process. I'm attempting to be wary and considerate of possible reasons this decision may have been made or upheld.
Last edited by JSange on Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby Flavorable » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:36 pm

A name is not "communication". Chatting is communication. If you CHAT in a foreign language, you run the risk of getting suspended. It's as simple as that. If you're in the English locale, you speak English, in the Spanish locale you speak Spanish, in the Turkish locale, you speak Turkish.

It's not that hard.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby JSange » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:40 pm

Should we be wary and educated of loan words as well then? Do we run a risk of being suspended for using words English took from other languages? There are words in the language that are better understood than much of the vocabulary English itself invented, do we have to be considerate of the reading levels of our peers and how do we determine that?

I will carefully analyze the vocabulary I use to avoid using terminology of Greek, Latin, French, German or Spanish descent in my future matches. I apologize that some of my words in this post are of those languages' descent and will work to determine the closest English approximation of these words. As it is far and away entirely too late to request a refund and I have already supported this project loyally for a decade, pulling my support now would merely be vain posturing and I'll make no such threats. So I will instead be wary of my statements in these video game matches to avoid the severe consequences involved.
Last edited by JSange on Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby Flavorable » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:53 pm

You don't determine that. We have jurors and Trial Staff that determines that. If someone speaks a foreign language, feel free to report it. The end.

I'm not sure why you're making this so difficult. Don't speak a language other than the game's locale. That's it. So how about we stop pretending we're idiots and move on? Good? Good.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby JSange » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:18 pm

I'm making it difficult because it really does seem unfair. I'm not happy with the outcome but I'm not sure what I can say that couldn't somehow be construed to appear as disrespect and, to date, engaging with this community has mostly been a pleasant experience. But that is because until today I have never really had to figuratively "walk on eggshells" with my speech. I have now received a suspension, and then been threatened with permanent consequences, for attempting to be humorous and for voicing my concerns and attempting to be approachable, respectively. Not so much as a warning that a single statement made in another language, when English itself has so, so many turns of phrase that are in and of themselves NOT ENGLISH, would result in consequences. I have to wonder how many lawyers picked up this game and got laid out for using Latin terminology during their matches, just trying to be funny.

I am making this difficult because it has suddenly been made difficult for me.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby Flavorable » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:21 pm

You don't have to walk on eggshells. You just have to speak English when you're in the English server. You seem to be the only person who doesn't understand this concept, thusfar.
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Re: Remove Bans for Messaging in Spanish

Postby JSange » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:33 pm

I feel like exceptions can be made in circumstances where no one was hurt and no determinable changes were made to the outcome of the game. The guy who was spamming nonsense in dead chat, I can see that being a minor annoyance. Perhaps not cheating but definitely obnoxious. The case where one guy responds to a Spanish statement by ironically stating, in Spanish, that they do not speak Spanish is an entirely separate ballpark. So far removed from the ballpark of anything that could by any stretch of logic be determined as cheating that it's a different sport entirely. I now understand that we need to strictly adhere to this arbitrary set of words you call "rules" with no regard to context or company, but I still find it unreasonable and absurd.

And in that regard, I do need to walk on eggshells with my speech because now that I understand there are consequences for using a language other than English, I need to figure out what words or phrases that are standard-use in my vocabulary, that I grew up with, in my specific region of the states, that are definitively not English phrases. I had no idea "sayonara" was Japanese until about a year ago, because it was so ingrained in my regional culture due to the movie Terminator that it was actually a common statement. Sure, I had intentionally spoken Spanish in that one specific instance but how many of these words and phrases that are second nature to me because of the culture I was raised in am I going to have to face consequences for?

Perhaps the rule could be rewritten better. "Make sure you can be understood by the other players." American English has this problem with stealing words, phrases, et cetera (for example) from everyone else's languages. This rule can be used to fuck with other players under it's current interpretation.

I also feel the need to point out that at the time you locked my appeal, I had not yet seen the warning on this thread about spam. In addition, under your definition of spam, you spammed on this thread yourself.
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