Has BMG taken a poll regarding Coven?

[YecatsMailbox]

I haven't been playing TOS for very long, but I love the game. So firstly, thank you so much to the creators/programmers/artists.

Secondly, when I purchased TOS on Steam (I didn't even realize it was free to play back then), of course I saw the Coven Expansion. I thought I'll play TOS for a bit first and familiarize myself before I purchase an expansion. The reviews of Coven on Steam, though, really put me off. Nearly every single one claims Coven is dead. My boyfriend sent an email to BMG asking about this at one point and they replied that several game modes are very active (like Chaos/Lovers.) When Coven Free weekend came around, we both played it for the first time. We enjoyed the new roles and everything so much that we purchased Coven. Only to be disappointed by how long it took to get into lobbies now unless they were VIP/Lovers/Chaos. It made me start to wonder why the "Classic" set up has nearly every mode filled, and Coven only has a few that fill up.

Has BMG tried polling its users? Perhaps a pop up once (like the Patch Notes) where a user has to click into a reason before proceeding...
Example:
"Attention, Townies! We need your help!

The amount of players in Coven is smaller than the amount of players in Classic. We want to know why. Can you help us?

[] I don't have Coven and don't plan to purchase it because I read reviews that it's dead.
[] I don't have Coven and don't plan to purchase it because the roles don't interest me.
[] I don't have Coven and don't plan to purchase it because I cannot afford it.
[x] I have Coven and find the lobbies in Classic fill up quicker.
[] I have Coven but I don't like/understand the roles yet.
[] I have Coven and I love to play it."

[kyuss420]

Well, where to start.... I love free weekend because I get to play the classic coven modes, but like classic (which I cant play for more than 2-3 games) no one seems to use any logic or reasoning, eg 2 town roles that are unique to the role list will spend all day accusing each other of lieing, thinking that the actual townie is just remaining quiet somewhere, Or coven will claim a role, and wont get counter claimed by any townie. So I scroll for coven roles, which is a challenge when you get 2 new guys in the team who dont know the mechanics of the roles, but is fairly easy for a coven role pro. So the newbies make these modes kinda fun.

Most people who bought coven to start with, I feel, bought it to get away from the spammers, bots and throwers that came with the free version of the game (Like no one is going to spend $10 just to get banned in the first week.....although it does happen), So from the get go, they are more ''serious'' players or looking for more of a challenge from the games, which leads to my next point.

Now, most players who own coven can wrap their heads around a role list, scum read, remember 8-10 role claims, can count a day or 2 ahead and predict the majority gap and work together as a town, by claiming early,(no one counter claiming you, pretty much confirms you in most modes), counterclaiming, TIs checking non claimers and non confirmed townies, so the matches seem bias towards town. (free weekend, TIs always seemed to check the uncountered claims), So the coven classic modes dont seem much of a challenge, so no one queues. I mean, the modes are great for beginners, to learn the role mechanics of the new coven roles, but there just doesnt seem to be that many beginners in coven these days.

I do find coven is fairly small community, with most of the same people on, at the same time everyday, which they tend to spend the hour or 2 of their gaming time, in their favourite mode....why play classic modes when you find lovers more fun? I mean, good luck getting me and my friends out of VIP mode during VIP week XD

Also, if you play a bit, people will start to recognise your username after a little time (hopefully for the good reasons), Add people to your friends list, and make parties. Sometimes, parties add parties and you end up with a 15 player party, that will fill any lobby you all choose. I think theres even a few discord groups (or was, anyway) who organise lobbies for the slower filling modes, there is definately one for ranked practise and custom. But Idk who'd you'd have to talk to, to find them these days.

[Achilles]

I’m sorry to hear that you are disappointed with your coven purchase. I had hoped that the recent free weekend would encourage some purchases and help get a boost to the coven user base. We have been planning to add a free coven ticket system to give non-coven users a more regular way to temporarily play some Coven games which would then boost the Coven player base. Then as reviews get better and more people purchase Coven it becomes a self improving system giving Coven a very healthy playerbase. I had hoped to wait until after Unity to work on this system because every new system we have to add to both code based delays our Unity launch by weeks. I may try to move this system up if a lot of people feel it is sorely needed.

[BasicFourLife]

Coven is awful, terrible and dead. There's nothing else left to discuss about it.

[Achilles]

Coven is awful, terrible and dead. There's nothing else left to discuss about it.

Thank you for your well thought out and insightful contribution to this thread.

[Jerme]

Coven is awful, terrible and dead. There's nothing else left to discuss about it.

That is your opinion, Hidden. May I ask for some added reasoning, so that you can give others the chance to understand why you are thinking that way?

[Tahee]

Coven is something you play when you're drunk with some mates, not something you play frequently, likewise with all any. Whoever plays coven usually stops after 1-2 games a week bc its kinda hard to go beyond that lets be real. The pride of this game is ranked and ranked practice, but unfortunately the developers give zero to no emphasis to it, it's been the same for years. Hardly any balance changes. No Role-list changes. Like for the love of god do something about retributionist already.

[kyuss420]

Coven is something you play when you're drunk with some mates, not something you play frequently, likewise with all any. Whoever plays coven usually stops after 1-2 games a week bc its kinda hard to go beyond that lets be real. The pride of this game is ranked and ranked practice, but unfortunately the developers give zero to no emphasis to it, it's been the same for years. Hardly any balance changes. No Role-list changes. Like for the love of god do something about retributionist already.

A mode where evils have only 3 RT slots in which to hide, is the pride of the game? I'll pass, the evils are too easy to find, altho half the town wont listen to you cos they cant to 3. I will stick to scrolling for coven roles in VIP mode

[Tahee]

Coven is something you play when you're drunk with some mates, not something you play frequently, likewise with all any. Whoever plays coven usually stops after 1-2 games a week bc its kinda hard to go beyond that lets be real. The pride of this game is ranked and ranked practice, but unfortunately the developers give zero to no emphasis to it, it's been the same for years. Hardly any balance changes. No Role-list changes. Like for the love of god do something about retributionist already.

A mode where evils have only 3 RT slots in which to hide, is the pride of the game? I'll pass, the evils are too easy to find, altho half the town wont listen to you cos they cant to 3. I will stick to scrolling for coven roles in VIP mode

It's irrefutably the most played game-modes hence it being the pride of the game.

[Flavorable]

Coven is something you play when you're drunk with some mates, not something you play frequently, likewise with all any. Whoever plays coven usually stops after 1-2 games a week bc its kinda hard to go beyond that lets be real. The pride of this game is ranked and ranked practice, but unfortunately the developers give zero to no emphasis to it, it's been the same for years. Hardly any balance changes. No Role-list changes. Like for the love of god do something about retributionist already.

Ranked and RP are hardly the most played modes. They're just the modes where the most people speak up on forums/reddit to complain. That doesn't make them most popular.

Also, I highly disagree with your "Coven is something you play when drunk" and "whoever plays usually stops after 1-2 games a week". Most people I play with and come across in the Coven gamemodes are people I see in there multiple times a week.

[Villagerlover]

I don't think they've taken a poll. but it'd be a great idea to get some new stats up and goin'.

I've personally really enjoyed Coven even though it's not really that balanced in Ranked/Ranked Practice. (Seriously though the Coven slaughter townies better than the mafia could've ever hoped). I've even considered buying it, but I dunno there just seems to be something preventing me from doing so. I think it's cause..

A) I get deterred from people saying there's little to no players in Coven...it's not really that fun to play when you play with the exact same users.
B) Just seems like Coven could be expanded upon regarding power balance. It seems there's way too many roles that can slaughter townies with no mercy, and conversely, there are town roles that seem too powerful like the Psychic, Crusader or Trapper since they can easily expose Coven or force them into a bad position with no hope of returning.
C) You don't really get that much from buying Coven. You just get to play Coven, and unlock enough gold/silver coins to maybe buy 1 or 2 skins, if even that. Or at least, I think so...

I suppose it really is only $10 but honestly it still seems of little value to me.

[Flavorable]

I don't think they've taken a poll. but it'd be a great idea to get some new stats up and goin'.

I've personally really enjoyed Coven even though it's not really that balanced in Ranked/Ranked Practice. (Seriously though the Coven slaughter townies better than the mafia could've ever hoped). I've even considered buying it, but I dunno there just seems to be something preventing me from doing so. I think it's cause..

A) I get deterred from people saying there's little to no players in Coven...it's not really that fun to play when you play with the exact same users.
B) Just seems like Coven could be expanded upon regarding power balance. It seems there's way too many roles that can slaughter townies with no mercy, and conversely, there are town roles that seem too powerful like the Psychic, Crusader or Trapper since they can easily expose Coven or force them into a bad position with no hope of returning.
C) You don't really get that much from buying Coven. You just get to play Coven, and unlock enough gold/silver coins to maybe buy 1 or 2 skins, if even that. Or at least, I think so...

I suppose it really is only $10 but honestly it still seems of little value to me.

Keep in mind that Coven Ranked/RP hasn't really been balanced yet, since no one's really been playing it aside from free weekends.

[Villagerlover]

I don't think they've taken a poll. but it'd be a great idea to get some new stats up and goin'.

I've personally really enjoyed Coven even though it's not really that balanced in Ranked/Ranked Practice. (Seriously though the Coven slaughter townies better than the mafia could've ever hoped). I've even considered buying it, but I dunno there just seems to be something preventing me from doing so. I think it's cause..

A) I get deterred from people saying there's little to no players in Coven...it's not really that fun to play when you play with the exact same users.
B) Just seems like Coven could be expanded upon regarding power balance. It seems there's way too many roles that can slaughter townies with no mercy, and conversely, there are town roles that seem too powerful like the Psychic, Crusader or Trapper since they can easily expose Coven or force them into a bad position with no hope of returning.
C) You don't really get that much from buying Coven. You just get to play Coven, and unlock enough gold/silver coins to maybe buy 1 or 2 skins, if even that. Or at least, I think so...

I suppose it really is only $10 but honestly it still seems of little value to me.

Keep in mind that Coven Ranked/RP hasn't really been balanced yet, since no one's really been playing it aside from free weekends.

I know. But that's not an excuse to not do something about it. Especially since people paid good money for it.

And I also know the Unity Port is a thing that's supposed to happen at some point as well. At this point I'm just waiting for it so that the graphics can look a lot better. And if so, then it may sway my opinion to wanna get Coven so it doesn't look so outdated.

[shapesifter13]

You can't really balance a role if there are no stats to go off of. If you do then it is all just guess work really. You could be nerfing a role that needs a buff.

[BasicFourLife]

You can't really balance a role if there are no stats to go off of. If you do then it is all just guess work really. You could be nerfing a role that needs a buff.

Yes you can. It's called being a good Balancer. You don't need statistics to balance a role.

[MysticMismagius]

You can't really balance a role if there are no stats to go off of. If you do then it is all just guess work really. You could be nerfing a role that needs a buff.

Yes you can. It's called being a good Balancer. You don't need statistics to balance a role.

Maybe you don’t, but they really help. A role may seem balanced in theory, but players may find a strategy to abuse its powers to the point of being unstoppable, or counter its abilities to the point where it is rendered useless. In those instances, the seemingly “balanced” role would actually be unbalanced in practice. This is why statistics are so useful in balancing.

[Flavorable]

The things is that roles can't be balanced solely on a mode that generally isn't played.

Right now, at least for All/Any, the roles seem balanced enough. A good Ranked/RP list can be made as soon as it's regularly played and people regularly show concerns about the same thing.

[BasicFourLife]

You can't really balance a role if there are no stats to go off of. If you do then it is all just guess work really. You could be nerfing a role that needs a buff.

Yes you can. It's called being a good Balancer. You don't need statistics to balance a role.

Maybe you don’t, but they really help. A role may seem balanced in theory, but players may find a strategy to abuse its powers to the point of being unstoppable, or counter its abilities to the point where it is rendered useless. In those instances, the seemingly “balanced” role would actually be unbalanced in practice. This is why statistics are so useful in balancing.

They help but they are completely unnecessary for 95% of the roles.

The things is that roles can't be balanced solely on a mode that generally isn't played.

Right now, at least for All/Any, the roles seem balanced enough. A good Ranked/RP list can be made as soon as it's regularly played and people regularly show concerns about the same thing.

The problem is not the list.

[Flavorable]

The things is that roles can't be balanced solely on a mode that generally isn't played.

Right now, at least for All/Any, the roles seem balanced enough. A good Ranked/RP list can be made as soon as it's regularly played and people regularly show concerns about the same thing.

The problem is not the list.

Then what is the problem? It's not helpful to just say "UNBALANCED" and then not clarify at all.

[Villagerlover]

The things is that roles can't be balanced solely on a mode that generally isn't played.

Right now, at least for All/Any, the roles seem balanced enough. A good Ranked/RP list can be made as soon as it's regularly played and people regularly show concerns about the same thing.

The problem is not the list.

Then what is the problem? It's not helpful to just say "UNBALANCED" and then not clarify at all.

I don’t care enough to explain.

Hidden, it's your blatant crudeness like this that gives you a bad reputation. If you're going to shit on something, then at least explain yourself. Otherwise you'll just look pathetic.

[Flavorable]

The things is that roles can't be balanced solely on a mode that generally isn't played.

Right now, at least for All/Any, the roles seem balanced enough. A good Ranked/RP list can be made as soon as it's regularly played and people regularly show concerns about the same thing.

The problem is not the list.

Then what is the problem? It's not helpful to just say "UNBALANCED" and then not clarify at all.

I don’t care enough to explain.

Hidden, it's your blatant crudeness like this that gives you a bad reputation. If you're going to shit on something, then at least explain yourself. Otherwise you'll just look pathetic.

Let me explain. Every role in Coven, with few exceptions, is awful.

Town:
Spoiler: Crusader - uh???? This is a TK. It kills people almost every night, without restraint and (almost) without control. It's more swingy than a veteran, which is also a pretty good candidate for town power. Relies on RNG 100% of the time.

Trapper - the basic concept isn't bad. if we're gonna remove ret and add town power, with some tweaks (and by that I mean a nerf nuke) it could work.

Tracker - i mean, it's a vanilla role, so sure.

Psychic - literally takes zero skill to play. it gets spoonfed passive information, thus leaving no skill cieling.

Mafia:

Spoiler: Ambusher - why. mafia tactical is now 100% unusable as it relies on having one kill per night. strays from the devs promise to and mafia's foundation of having one kill per night.

Hypnotist - no credit was given to the creator of the role. kinda too late to fix that, but whatever. otherwise works.


oof topic but wtf is the poitn of having mafia roles in a dlc based around an entirely new faction?

Neutral:

Spoiler: Guardian Angel - could be done far better. relies on rng, and has too easy a fallback. the role is mediocre at best, and while it works in nb the concept could be better applied to other roles.

Pirate - no. make a valid strategy as pirate, and you'll figure out why. (spoilers: you can't)

Plague/Pesti - it's like this role was designed to go from 0 to 100. if you nerfed it down some and made it an nk, it might work fine as a ww replacement.

Juggernaut - let's jugger-not. literally the worst nk i can think of. it's literally just an sk with a gimmick, like guardian angel mediocre and tiring.

Coven:

Spoiler: Necronomicon - seems arbitrary. pestilence uses the countdown mechanic far better, and the buff mechanic could also be used better.

Coven Leader - witch*

Medusa - 3-shot vet? contgributes to ceven's swinginess as their kill power is based on rng, by far moreso than the other roles since it can kill more than one person per night.

PM - kill power makes it swingy, as mafia games were foudned on a rolelist balanced around a set killing power, at least by factions. doesn't have any true use for the heal that hypnotist can't.

Hex Master - ok, so you have an alien. swingy as the faction's kill power is undeterminable. it's a lot easier to hex everyone when you have two killers as opposed to none.

Poisoner - necronomicon doesn't allow for counterplay. contributes to the factional swing.

Necromancer - it...aint great. it ain't bad, but it's not something worth keeping when the rest of the faction is crappy. just klepto, which is already a weaker witch.

overall, it's gimmicky and stupid. i think players realize this which is why it isn't played that much.

To be fair, everything you said it purely opinion, I don't see much factual evidence here. For example, you say GA is RNG? How so? It's protecting your target and learning to scumread. I don't get how it's RNG? You claim the same about Crusader, which is also not reliant on RNG, but moreso (again) on skill, scumreading and knowing when to be where and informing other important roles about your whereabouts beforehand.

I still see no actual incentive here to have to rebalance any roles. At least not when it comes to All/Any.

[Achilles]

The things is that roles can't be balanced solely on a mode that generally isn't played.

Right now, at least for All/Any, the roles seem balanced enough. A good Ranked/RP list can be made as soon as it's regularly played and people regularly show concerns about the same thing.

The problem is not the list.

Then what is the problem? It's not helpful to just say "UNBALANCED" and then not clarify at all.

I don’t care enough to explain.

Hidden, it's your blatant crudeness like this that gives you a bad reputation. If you're going to shit on something, then at least explain yourself. Otherwise you'll just look pathetic.

Let me explain. Every role in Coven, with few exceptions, is awful.

Town:
Spoiler: Crusader - uh???? This is a TK. It kills people almost every night, without restraint and (almost) without control. It's more swingy than a veteran, which is also a pretty good candidate for town power. Relies on RNG 100% of the time.

Trapper - the basic concept isn't bad. if we're gonna remove ret and add town power, with some tweaks (and by that I mean a nerf nuke) it could work.

Tracker - i mean, it's a vanilla role, so sure.

Psychic - literally takes zero skill to play. it gets spoonfed passive information, thus leaving no skill cieling.

Mafia:

Spoiler: Ambusher - why. mafia tactical is now 100% unusable as it relies on having one kill per night. strays from the devs promise to and mafia's foundation of having one kill per night.

Hypnotist - no credit was given to the creator of the role. kinda too late to fix that, but whatever. otherwise works.


oof topic but wtf is the poitn of having mafia roles in a dlc based around an entirely new faction?

Neutral:

Spoiler: Guardian Angel - could be done far better. relies on rng, and has too easy a fallback. the role is mediocre at best, and while it works in nb the concept could be better applied to other roles.

Pirate - no. make a valid strategy as pirate, and you'll figure out why. (spoilers: you can't)

Plague/Pesti - it's like this role was designed to go from 0 to 100. if you nerfed it down some and made it an nk, it might work fine as a ww replacement.

Juggernaut - let's jugger-not. literally the worst nk i can think of. it's literally just an sk with a gimmick, like guardian angel mediocre and tiring.

Coven:

Spoiler: Necronomicon - seems arbitrary. pestilence uses the countdown mechanic far better, and the buff mechanic could also be used better.

Coven Leader - witch*

Medusa - 3-shot vet? contgributes to ceven's swinginess as their kill power is based on rng, by far moreso than the other roles since it can kill more than one person per night.

PM - kill power makes it swingy, as mafia games were foudned on a rolelist balanced around a set killing power, at least by factions. doesn't have any true use for the heal that hypnotist can't.

Hex Master - ok, so you have an alien. swingy as the faction's kill power is undeterminable. it's a lot easier to hex everyone when you have two killers as opposed to none.

Poisoner - necronomicon doesn't allow for counterplay. contributes to the factional swing.

Necromancer - it...aint great. it ain't bad, but it's not something worth keeping when the rest of the faction is crappy. just klepto, which is already a weaker witch.

overall, it's gimmicky and stupid. i think players realize this which is why it isn't played that much.

To be fair, everything you said it purely opinion, I don't see much factual evidence here. For example, you say GA is RNG? How so? It's protecting your target and learning to scumread. I don't get how it's RNG? You claim the same about Crusader, which is also not reliant on RNG, but moreso (again) on skill, scumreading and knowing when to be where and informing other important roles about your whereabouts beforehand.

I still see no actual incentive here to have to rebalance any roles. At least not when it comes to All/Any.

Guardian Angel is RNG because it's target is based off RNG. Crusader is RNG because who it kills isn't someone you have control over.

And you can't really use "this is your opinion" as an argument if you don't have a better one.

.

Clearly Coven just isn’t for you and that’s okay. I’ll focus on the people who enjoy Coven but have some role improvements or a few critiques. If you don’t like a majority of the roles then I don’t think I could ever please you. Sorry.

[Bodhrak]

Clearly Coven just isn’t for you and that’s okay. I’ll focus on the people who enjoy Coven but have some role improvements or a few critiques. If you don’t like a majority of the roles then I don’t think I could ever please you. Sorry.

He does have a point though. Like half of the roles even break the guidelines for concepts not to make on our own role idea forum. RNG-roles, visitor roles, independent mafia killer and so on.

It actually seems like the roles where created with the chaos modes VIP/Lovers and All/Any in mind - which isn't that bad. Chaos modes don't have to be balanced.
But why then even have this illusion that there will be a balanced ranked with Coven?

[Bodhrak]

If I recall correctly, the list of guidelines for Role Ideas is not official in any way with BMG itself. It's just a list made by people in role ideas, but not looked at or approved by the developers at all, so it's not really a fair argument to say that the devs are going against a list they do not refer to.

I never said it was official. The guidelines still make a lot of sense. They were collected over time and should be followed if you want to create balanced roles / avoid making the same suggestions that have been dismissed countless times.

BMG not following this when creating Coven means one of two things:
1. They don't actually care about our suggestions at all. That would be sad. And inefficient.
2. The intent with Coven was never to create balanced roles but just more roles to fill up All/Any or create dedicated modes that have their own sense of balance (like VIP). That's ok, but why then have Coven Ranked set up?

[Aureolin1]

The things is that roles can't be balanced solely on a mode that generally isn't played.

Right now, at least for All/Any, the roles seem balanced enough. A good Ranked/RP list can be made as soon as it's regularly played and people regularly show concerns about the same thing.

The problem is not the list.

Then what is the problem? It's not helpful to just say "UNBALANCED" and then not clarify at all.

I don’t care enough to explain.

Hidden, it's your blatant crudeness like this that gives you a bad reputation. If you're going to shit on something, then at least explain yourself. Otherwise you'll just look pathetic.

Let me explain. Every role in Coven, with few exceptions, is awful.

Town:
Spoiler: Crusader - uh???? This is a TK. It kills people almost every night, without restraint and (almost) without control. It's more swingy than a veteran, which is also a pretty good candidate for town power. Relies on RNG 100% of the time.
Crus is the best Town Protective in the game. It's essentially a Doctor with the power to kill. It's only fair that a role of such magnitude would have a catch. Imagine how OP Crusader would be if it did not kill Townies. It forces you to think about the people you are protecting and make skillful plays instead of mindless ones.

Trapper - the basic concept isn't bad. if we're gonna remove ret and add town power, with some tweaks (and by that I mean a nerf nuke) it could work.
What does Ret have to do with anything? Trapper is a better BG, but again, it breeds more careful thought because traps can trigger so easily. I fail to see your issue here.

Tracker - i mean, it's a vanilla role, so sure.

Psychic - literally takes zero skill to play. it gets spoonfed passive information, thus leaving no skill cieling.
Sure, I can agree here. I have the same gripe with Pirate... I'm not a fan of luck based roles. However, you still must know what to do with the information that is given to you. It's very healthy for games. It gives me an excuse to VFR without getting bitched at. The more information available to the town, the better off they will be. Psychic visions reveal claims, thus being the bonus information.

Mafia:

Spoiler: Ambusher - why. mafia tactical is now 100% unusable as it relies on having one kill per night. strays from the devs promise to and mafia's foundation of having one kill per night.
"Mafia Tactical" is not in game. BMG can't cater to the Testing Grounds' every wish. The Mafia need more firepower to combat the Coven roles and the new Town roles. Ambusher is awesome in theory, I just wish that the message "you saw x prepare an ambush while visiting your target" would be removed. Lookouts and Trackers are enough to catch Ambushers, IMO. This message is unnecessary and unfair. But, you neglect to mention that completely and go off on some mini tangent about 1KPN.

Hypnotist - no credit was given to the creator of the role. kinda too late to fix that, but whatever. otherwise works.
Again, no constructive criticism with the role itself.

oof topic but wtf is the poitn of having mafia roles in a dlc based around an entirely new faction?
I don't see you complaining about the new Town and Neutral additions in this manner. There's more appeal to the DLC than just 6 Coven roles. Who would buy it just for that? Certainly not as many as we currently have now.

Neutral:

Spoiler: Guardian Angel - could be done far better. relies on rng, and has too easy a fallback. the role is mediocre at best, and while it works in nb the concept could be better applied to other roles.
LOL. Relies on RNG!? Does Executioner rely on RNG too, since you can't choose your target or their role?

Pirate - no. make a valid strategy as pirate, and you'll figure out why. (spoilers: you can't)
kyuss420 wrote a wonderful guide on how to successfully win as Pirate. I personally still don't like it because the winning condition itself relies on luck, but he proved there's ways to help your situation.

Plague/Pesti - it's like this role was designed to go from 0 to 100. if you nerfed it down some and made it an nk, it might work fine as a ww replacement.
WW replacement is interesting, but then that leaves SK with jack shit, making the NK alignment swingy. Pest itself is a payoff for being weak early game as PB.

Juggernaut - let's jugger-not. literally the worst nk i can think of. it's literally just an sk with a gimmick, like guardian angel mediocre and tiring.
Jugg in concept is sweet but he's too weak early game. He's also more comparable to WW than SK. Here we go again, you trash the role but don't care to explain why you think so. Why is it the worst NK?

Coven:

Spoiler: Necronomicon - seems arbitrary. pestilence uses the countdown mechanic far better, and the buff mechanic could also be used better.
Arbitrary... how? It's essentially the Full Moon for Coven, so what does Pest have to do with this? Maybe I could understand distaste for the Necron if every Coven member got it N3, but that's clearly not the case.

Coven Leader - witch*
Your point?

Medusa - 3-shot vet? contgributes to ceven's swinginess as their kill power is based on rng, by far moreso than the other roles since it can kill more than one person per night.
"3 shot Vet." Uhhhh? You make it sound as if it's a Vet with more/less alerts than the original role, but it isn't. Medusa also isn't RNG based... you make a conscious decision whether or not to visit the Medusa, just as one would with the Veteran.

PM - kill power makes it swingy, as mafia games were foudned on a rolelist balanced around a set killing power, at least by factions. doesn't have any true use for the heal that hypnotist can't.
This isn't Mafia. Coven was founded on killing power, not deception. Often times, the PM is one of the only roles that gets a kill before the Necronomicon starts. I don't think that's swingy. It's a nice balance for the temporary weakness of the other roles.

Hex Master - ok, so you have an alien. swingy as the faction's kill power is undeterminable. it's a lot easier to hex everyone when you have two killers as opposed to none.
I think you underestimate the amount of times the Unstoppable hex actually happens. If you wanna shit on HM there's better ways to do that but alright

Poisoner - necronomicon doesn't allow for counterplay. contributes to the factional swing.
A GA can still heal poison, even if Poisoner has the Necronomicon. However, I don't like that Doc is a hard counter. Additionally, the Poisoner is one of and if not the last Coven members to get the Necronomicon. At the point in the game, Poisoner will need all the help he can get. Maybe it doesn't allow for counterplay, but I've never actually seen a Poisoner make it to the very end of the game because it's just like the old Arso douses, you could weed out potential poisoners by asking who was or wasn't poisoned.

Necromancer - it...aint great. it ain't bad, but it's not something worth keeping when the rest of the faction is crappy. just klepto, which is already a weaker witch.
I still have yet to see what makes the other roles "crappy." And, why would its own existence have to be removed because of lame faction roles? If we think Invest is cool, but the rest of the TI suck, does that mean Invest has to go? It's also more than just a Witch. Ghouls are epic and you can save a dead BG's protection for late game if you need to use him against a Werewolf. Necro opens up possibility for so many neat plays. What makes it mediocre besides being reliant on the graveyard for kill power?

overall, it's gimmicky and stupid. i think players realize this which is why it isn't played that much.

I must say, for someone who constantly trashes Coven and demands it be scrapped, I expected more from you. Quite frankly these "complaints" are pathetic. It isn't played much because of... a paywall. And even then, I would argue that the Coven DLC gets plenty of love. Players I know love the roles.
I've left my two cents on most roles in your spoilers.