Remove Pirate from VIP mode

[EgyptFalcon]

On average a Pirate wins after 6 nights of dueling. VIP games do not last this long on average. Playing Pirate was never fun in my opinion but losing on day 2 where you had literally zero ways of preventing that from happening is ridiculous.

Remove Pirate from VIP mode.

[DragonClaw66]

On average a Pirate wins after 6 nights of dueling. VIP games do not last this long on average. Playing Pirate was never fun in my opinion but losing on day 2 where you had literally zero ways of preventing that from happening is ridiculous.

Remove Pirate from VIP mode.

VIP Mode needs a lot more changes that just this; from what I've heard (I don't own the expansion), the Coven win rate is extremely low (mainly due to the Psychic).

[EgyptFalcon]

On average a Pirate wins after 6 nights of dueling. VIP games do not last this long on average. Playing Pirate was never fun in my opinion but losing on day 2 where you had literally zero ways of preventing that from happening is ridiculous.

Remove Pirate from VIP mode.

VIP Mode needs a lot more changes that just this; from what I've heard (I don't own the expansion), the Coven win rate is extremely low (mainly due to the Psychic).

That and the fact that almost the only claim space evils have is stoned roles.

[Kirigirii]

On average a Pirate wins after 6 nights of dueling. VIP games do not last this long on average. Playing Pirate was never fun in my opinion but losing on day 2 where you had literally zero ways of preventing that from happening is ridiculous.

Remove Pirate from VIP mode.

VIP Mode needs a lot more changes that just this; from what I've heard (I don't own the expansion), the Coven win rate is extremely low (mainly due to the Psychic).

Easy solution to that. Remove Psychic. It's a role that's mainly based on RNG to actually be useful and something like that shouldn't be in the game.

[kyuss420]

VIP role list is balanced. Coven dont need claim space, they need to kill the VIP, not outclaim town. People cry about it being unbalanced, but these same people target roles like sherrif instead of crusader, when they are coven. Or claim dumb roles, like sherrif or tracker when on visions (like your team doesnt need to know who the tracker is, they need to know who is protecting the VIP so they can kill them) I win pretty much 4 out of 5 matches that I play as Coven Leader, even when town know who the coven are. The biggest reason people claim its unbalanced is because they dont understand the mechanics of the coven roles, or how to prioritise their targets. You basically have people scrolling for town (wanting to be carried) getting coven roles that they have no idea how to use.
(As we discussed in another post EgyptFalcon, people dont adjust their gameplay when they choose a mode that requires different gameplay).

As coven, you are going to be found, you will probably lose 1 coven member per day starting day 2, this gives you 4 nights to kill the Town Protectives and the VIP (This is where pirate has to choose to target coven or town, targeting coven will speed up the game and you are at a disadvantage in getting your 2 kills)

psychic is powerful, but isnt a deal breaker, coven can win with a psychic alive. As stated above, Prioritise the TP as targets, Claim space isnt needed, because you should be claiming Town Protective roles, to get the counter claims either mislynched (if they are on the psy vision with you) or revealed so that CL can kill them. Also, the pros I play with, claim there roles so early, that a psychic isnt even needed to figure out who the coven is...why? becuase not claiming gets you shot by a vigi.

tips - CL bypasses traps and BG nights 1 and 2, too many noobs are scared of hitting the crus claim n1 because ''TP will be on them''
- As PM, try healing the CL night 1, while he targets the crus, if VIP is revealed day2, PM has an attack potion ready for the vip, while CL controls the crus off of them
- day 1 chat = ''Im on VIP'' ''Im on crus'' this means CL should control the ''Im on crus'' guy to medusa, while PM kills the ''Im on VIP'' guy (boom, 2 TP dead in one go), dude on psy vision claims trapper, trapper ccs, if youre lucky theres a TP on the vision also, who claims...you now have your next 2 targets, to leave the VIP wide open by night 4 (night 3, if the VIP has last TP slot).
- Hex master has an astral attack and doesnt visit, bypasses BG and trapper. This is why CL needs to kill docs and crusaders early, so they can die day 2 or 3 and hex master can target the VIP instead of the remaining TPs
- If a sherrif or tracker doesnt have a will, more likely than not, they are VIP and arent visiting
- CL has basic befence from n3 onwards and cant die to crusader, try sending crus to themself, 50/50 chance the crus will kill the TP thats protecting them, if youre lucky, that TP will be the VIP
- keep track of claims, not everyone is lieing, any non claimers are usually vigi/Vip/Pirate, if any of those roles have claimed you can wipe them off the list
- Medusa dead day 2? that sucks...maybe send crusader to the psychic and kill the trapper or get PM to heal you and send crus to themself.
- so youre outnumbered 6 to 1? well, you cant kill a Vip with a TP alive, target that TP claim (they may be vip), maybe town will mislynch the pirate next day, and you will win if theres no TP on the vip. never give up!

as for pirate tips- (148 pirate wins here...so far...)
* you are neutral, remain that way, lynching you gives coven an extra day, and town dont want that
* vigi is a wild card, pirate them
* if GA claims day 1, you know they arent Vip, and no crus will be on them, guarenteed a safe target
* pirate poison victims, doc will be healing them anyway and you wont die to a crusader
* pirating coven speeds up the game and is bad for you, if you have no plunders
*pirating crus claim day1 leaves VIP open. If coven hit them, you lose
* if you dont have your plunders, dont vote in a tie breaker situation, this is also the time to start targeting the coven, if they gain too much majority, they will vote up the VIP and you lose
* If you are scrolling for pirate, remember your targets names(they dont always change from game to game) and remember their choice (most players use the same choice first time) that way, the next game you can kill them n1 which is a huge advantage
* i have also noticed the majority of choices varies throughout the day, the 4-6pm crew usually backpeddle, while the 6-9pm crew usually sidestep, but this rotates on a bimonthly basis, as people try to keep 1 step ahead of us pirate scrollers
* generic names are usually afk, and sidestep 90% of the time

There are a lot of people who actually scroll for coven roles in VIP, the leaderboards are full of them. All of them seem to think the role list is balanced, as do I. Playing as coven in VIP mode, is the most strategic based gameplay in the game, in my opinion, and VIP week is the only time I see some of the best players I know, online. Besides theres not really another role they can use. Exe/Jester can kill Vip, even if theyre protected, The only guy innoing everyone one the stand would be confirmed Vip. NKs cant win if they kill the VIP, also they would be targeting the same people as coven should be. Arso can bypass TP so cant be protected against, i dont think vamp would work either, so pirate seems to be the only logical choice for the nuetral wild card

Please dont post to change a role list, to appease the players who dont like using the roles anyway, and before you call it unbalanced, start scrolling for coven for a few weeks and watch how the pros use the roles, and what moves they make in certain recurring situations.

[shapesifter13]

Spoiler:

VIP role list is balanced. Coven dont need claim space, they need to kill the VIP, not outclaim town. People cry about it being unbalanced, but these same people target roles like sherrif instead of crusader, when they are coven. Or claim dumb roles, like sherrif or tracker when on visions (like your team doesnt need to know who the tracker is, they need to know who is protecting the VIP so they can kill them) I win pretty much 4 out of 5 matches that I play as Coven Leader, even when town know who the coven are. The biggest reason people claim its unbalanced is because they dont understand the mechanics of the coven roles, or how to prioritise their targets. You basically have people scrolling for town (wanting to be carried) getting coven roles that they have no idea how to use.
(As we discussed in another post EgyptFalcon, people dont adjust their gameplay when they choose a mode that requires different gameplay).

As coven, you are going to be found, you will probably lose 1 coven member per day starting day 2, this gives you 4 nights to kill the Town Protectives and the VIP (This is where pirate has to choose to target coven or town, targeting coven will speed up the game and you are at a disadvantage in getting your 2 kills)

psychic is powerful, but isnt a deal breaker, coven can win with a psychic alive. As stated above, Prioritise the TP as targets, Claim space isnt needed, because you should be claiming Town Protective roles, to get the counter claims either mislynched (if they are on the psy vision with you) or revealed so that CL can kill them. Also, the pros I play with, claim there roles so early, that a psychic isnt even needed to figure out who the coven is...why? becuase not claiming gets you shot by a vigi.

tips - CL bypasses traps and BG nights 1 and 2, too many noobs are scared of hitting the crus claim n1 because ''TP will be on them''
- As PM, try healing the CL night 1, while he targets the crus, if VIP is revealed day2, PM has an attack potion ready for the vip, while CL controls the crus off of them
- day 1 chat = ''Im on VIP'' ''Im on crus'' this means CL should control the ''Im on crus'' guy to medusa, while PM kills the ''Im on VIP'' guy (boom, 2 TP dead in one go), dude on psy vision claims trapper, trapper ccs, if youre lucky theres a TP on the vision also, who claims...you now have your next 2 targets, to leave the VIP wide open by night 4 (night 3, if the VIP has last TP slot).
- Hex master has an astral attack and doesnt visit, bypasses BG and trapper. This is why CL needs to kill docs and crusaders early, so they can die day 2 or 3 and hex master can target the VIP instead of the remaining TPs
- If a sherrif or tracker doesnt have a will, more likely than not, they are VIP and arent visiting
- CL has basic befence from n3 onwards and cant die to crusader, try sending crus to themself, 50/50 chance the crus will kill the TP thats protecting them, if youre lucky, that TP will be the VIP
- keep track of claims, not everyone is lieing, any non claimers are usually vigi/Vip/Pirate, if any of those roles have claimed you can wipe them off the list
- Medusa dead day 2? that sucks...maybe send crusader to the psychic and kill the trapper or get PM to heal you and send crus to themself.
- so youre outnumbered 6 to 1? well, you cant kill a Vip with a TP alive, target that TP claim (they may be vip), maybe town will mislynch the pirate next day, and you will win if theres no TP on the vip. never give up!

as for pirate tips- (148 pirate wins here...so far...)
* you are neutral, remain that way, lynching you gives coven an extra day, and town dont want that
* vigi is a wild card, pirate them
* if GA claims day 1, you know they arent Vip, and no crus will be on them, guarenteed a safe target
* pirate poison victims, doc will be healing them anyway and you wont die to a crusader
* pirating coven speeds up the game and is bad for you, if you have no plunders
*pirating crus claim day1 leaves VIP open. If coven hit them, you lose
* if you dont have your plunders, dont vote in a tie breaker situation, this is also the time to start targeting the coven, if they gain too much majority, they will vote up the VIP and you lose
* If you are scrolling for pirate, remember your targets names(they dont always change from game to game) and remember their choice (most players use the same choice first time) that way, the next game you can kill them n1 which is a huge advantage
* i have also noticed the majority of choices varies throughout the day, the 4-6pm crew usually backpeddle, while the 6-9pm crew usually sidestep, but this rotates on a bimonthly basis, as people try to keep 1 step ahead of us pirate scrollers
* generic names are usually afk, and sidestep 90% of the time

There are a lot of people who actually scroll for coven roles in VIP, the leaderboards are full of them. All of them seem to think the role list is balanced, as do I. Playing as coven in VIP mode, is the most strategic based gameplay in the game, in my opinion, and VIP week is the only time I see some of the best players I know, online. Besides theres not really another role they can use. Exe/Jester can kill Vip, even if theyre protected, The only guy innoing everyone one the stand would be confirmed Vip. NKs cant win if they kill the VIP, also they would be targeting the same people as coven should be. Arso can bypass TP so cant be protected against, i dont think vamp would work either, so pirate seems to be the only logical choice for the nuetral wild card

Please dont post to change a role list, to appease the players who dont like using the roles anyway, and before you call it unbalanced, start scrolling for coven for a few weeks and watch how the pros use the roles, and what moves they make in certain recurring situations.

Well that was just a ton of info. You make a lot of good points. VIP is an interesting mode because you need to kill 1 specific person. Not the whole town. I agree with a lot of the points you made. Would love to see how people counter your points to see where we can come together.

[rushofpower]

VIP role list is balanced. Coven dont need claim space, they need to kill the VIP, not outclaim town. People cry about it being unbalanced, but these same people target roles like sherrif instead of crusader, when they are coven. Or claim dumb roles, like sherrif or tracker when on visions (like your team doesnt need to know who the tracker is, they need to know who is protecting the VIP so they can kill them) I win pretty much 4 out of 5 matches that I play as Coven Leader, even when town know who the coven are. The biggest reason people claim its unbalanced is because they dont understand the mechanics of the coven roles, or how to prioritise their targets. You basically have people scrolling for town (wanting to be carried) getting coven roles that they have no idea how to use.
(As we discussed in another post EgyptFalcon, people dont adjust their gameplay when they choose a mode that requires different gameplay).

As coven, you are going to be found, you will probably lose 1 coven member per day starting day 2, this gives you 4 nights to kill the Town Protectives and the VIP (This is where pirate has to choose to target coven or town, targeting coven will speed up the game and you are at a disadvantage in getting your 2 kills)

psychic is powerful, but isnt a deal breaker, coven can win with a psychic alive. As stated above, Prioritise the TP as targets, Claim space isnt needed, because you should be claiming Town Protective roles, to get the counter claims either mislynched (if they are on the psy vision with you) or revealed so that CL can kill them. Also, the pros I play with, claim there roles so early, that a psychic isnt even needed to figure out who the coven is...why? becuase not claiming gets you shot by a vigi.

tips - CL bypasses traps and BG nights 1 and 2, too many noobs are scared of hitting the crus claim n1 because ''TP will be on them''
- As PM, try healing the CL night 1, while he targets the crus, if VIP is revealed day2, PM has an attack potion ready for the vip, while CL controls the crus off of them
- day 1 chat = ''Im on VIP'' ''Im on crus'' this means CL should control the ''Im on crus'' guy to medusa, while PM kills the ''Im on VIP'' guy (boom, 2 TP dead in one go), dude on psy vision claims trapper, trapper ccs, if youre lucky theres a TP on the vision also, who claims...you now have your next 2 targets, to leave the VIP wide open by night 4 (night 3, if the VIP has last TP slot).
- Hex master has an astral attack and doesnt visit, bypasses BG and trapper. This is why CL needs to kill docs and crusaders early, so they can die day 2 or 3 and hex master can target the VIP instead of the remaining TPs
- If a sherrif or tracker doesnt have a will, more likely than not, they are VIP and arent visiting
- CL has basic befence from n3 onwards and cant die to crusader, try sending crus to themself, 50/50 chance the crus will kill the TP thats protecting them, if youre lucky, that TP will be the VIP
- keep track of claims, not everyone is lieing, any non claimers are usually vigi/Vip/Pirate, if any of those roles have claimed you can wipe them off the list
- Medusa dead day 2? that sucks...maybe send crusader to the psychic and kill the trapper or get PM to heal you and send crus to themself.
- so youre outnumbered 6 to 1? well, you cant kill a Vip with a TP alive, target that TP claim (they may be vip), maybe town will mislynch the pirate next day, and you will win if theres no TP on the vip. never give up!

as for pirate tips- (148 pirate wins here...so far...)
* you are neutral, remain that way, lynching you gives coven an extra day, and town dont want that
* vigi is a wild card, pirate them
* if GA claims day 1, you know they arent Vip, and no crus will be on them, guarenteed a safe target
* pirate poison victims, doc will be healing them anyway and you wont die to a crusader
* pirating coven speeds up the game and is bad for you, if you have no plunders
*pirating crus claim day1 leaves VIP open. If coven hit them, you lose
* if you dont have your plunders, dont vote in a tie breaker situation, this is also the time to start targeting the coven, if they gain too much majority, they will vote up the VIP and you lose
* If you are scrolling for pirate, remember your targets names(they dont always change from game to game) and remember their choice (most players use the same choice first time) that way, the next game you can kill them n1 which is a huge advantage
* i have also noticed the majority of choices varies throughout the day, the 4-6pm crew usually backpeddle, while the 6-9pm crew usually sidestep, but this rotates on a bimonthly basis, as people try to keep 1 step ahead of us pirate scrollers
* generic names are usually afk, and sidestep 90% of the time

There are a lot of people who actually scroll for coven roles in VIP, the leaderboards are full of them. All of them seem to think the role list is balanced, as do I. Playing as coven in VIP mode, is the most strategic based gameplay in the game, in my opinion, and VIP week is the only time I see some of the best players I know, online. Besides theres not really another role they can use. Exe/Jester can kill Vip, even if theyre protected, The only guy innoing everyone one the stand would be confirmed Vip. NKs cant win if they kill the VIP, also they would be targeting the same people as coven should be. Arso can bypass TP so cant be protected against, i dont think vamp would work either, so pirate seems to be the only logical choice for the nuetral wild card

Please dont post to change a role list, to appease the players who dont like using the roles anyway, and before you call it unbalanced, start scrolling for coven for a few weeks and watch how the pros use the roles, and what moves they make in certain recurring situations.

this is beautiful