Coven Ranked Practice is not balanced

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Coven Ranked Practice is not balanced

Postby NettoTakashi » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:24 pm

Every Coven Ranked Practice game I play seems to end in Coven Win. Even if town does everything right, the Coven is simply too strong, with KPN greater than 1, and just enough other scum to prevent Town from voting them. The only games I've seen where Coven DIDN'T win were one in which Town got ridiculously lucky, and one in which the CL decided to give the Jester a win when down to just those two and Escort.

CL + Medusa lets the Coven semi-reliably kill on the first two nights, then CL gets the book and can reliably kill every night thereafter, *and is immune to roleblock* so the kills can't be stopped except by Jailor. If CL dies and Medusa gets the book, they aren't immune to RB, but can kill and clean someone every night. If there's a Poisoner/Potion Master in the game, Coven can kill even faster, and there's a very good chance (5/6) at least one of those two will be in the game (the alternative being that both HM and Necro are present)... in fact, the odds of having neither are the same as the odds of having BOTH, which is even WORSE.

Coven is far too strong to be having a guaranteed four Coven in every game. Strike one of the Coven from the role list. Personally, I'd like to see it replaced with an NB or RN, if only because there's no reliable way to get GA to appear in a game. But whatever fills the opened spot, Coven needs to be weakened.
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Re: Coven Ranked Practice is not balanced

Postby ScardyBob » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:57 pm

It only seems that way because every game is almost guaranteed to have a leaver, thrower, or troll (and likely multiple ones). If town loses 1-2 players from leaving/throwing in the first two nights, of course coven is going to win (unless they have a leaver/thrower/troll too).

The solution is to fix the leaving/throwing/troll problem, not fiddling with the rolelist.
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Re: Coven Ranked Practice is not balanced

Postby youngpro » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:02 pm

ScardyBob wrote:It only seems that way because every game is almost guaranteed to have a leaver, thrower, or troll (and likely multiple ones). If town loses 1-2 players from leaving/throwing in the first two nights, of course coven is going to win (unless they have a leaver/thrower/troll too).

The solution is to fix the leaving/throwing/troll problem, not fiddling with the rolelist.



I'm not sure I completely agree with that being the only fix needed, I do actually agree with the original post in the fact that Coven does feel somewhat too powerful and certain not fun to play against. Maybe both things need to be implemented, ie fixing the issue with people leaving game or trolling or other means of gamethrowing AND looking at the rolelist again. It's not that easy to tell but if there are stats available then it would be good to know as we as players in the game don't really know the winrates by faction of town and coven in the gamemode as BMG are not kind enough to release that data to the public for some bizarre reason. I've been challenging for that for a long time.
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Re: Coven Ranked Practice is not balanced

Postby ScardyBob » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:56 pm

youngpro wrote:I'm not sure I completely agree with that being the only fix needed, I do actually agree with the original post in the fact that Coven does feel somewhat too powerful and certain not fun to play against. Maybe both things need to be implemented, ie fixing the issue with people leaving game or trolling or other means of gamethrowing AND looking at the rolelist again. It's not that easy to tell but if there are stats available then it would be good to know as we as players in the game don't really know the winrates by faction of town and coven in the gamemode as BMG are not kind enough to release that data to the public for some bizarre reason. I've been challenging for that for a long time.


True, other fixes may be needed, but that is only likely to show up in high elo ranked play (where trolls/throwers/leavers generally don't happen and everyone knows how to play). Until then, best to focus on fixing the troll/thrower/leaver problem.
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Re: Coven Ranked Practice is not balanced

Postby Soulshade55r » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:13 pm

I see coven win more of the time then mafia but it's not a lot more.
Depends what coven members you have necromancer currently is terrible in comparison to other coven(Cool role idea though)
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Re: Coven Ranked Practice is not balanced

Postby SpellChecker » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:14 am

Please do not necrobump.
  
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