What features does the community want?

[Achilles]

I'm not saying it's hard to change but what does spy do without that? Do we just remove the role entirely? What about the spy skin? Is removing a role really going to rejuvenate the community? I have my doubts.

How many people do you think will come to the forums after the change saying spy was their favorite role and that were ruining the game?

[RetralMega]

I'm not saying it's hard to change but what does spy do without that? Do we just remove the role entirely? What about the spy skin? Is removing a role really going to rejuvenate the community? I have my doubts.

No one is saying we need to remove the Spy.
Just remove the Spy's ability to see Mafia's night chat.
Spy can still read whispers and see who Mafia visits.

[GoldSlash]

Arsonist BUFF!!

[Nellyfox]

I'm not saying it's hard to change but what does spy do without that? Do we just remove the role entirely? What about the spy skin? Is removing a role really going to rejuvenate the community? I have my doubts.

Spy is a strong role because Mafia members can't visit each other without the help of a transporter. No transporter in the game? Whoever gets visited is confirmed not Mafia. Removing its ability to hear Mafia chat will let Mafia plan without having to worry about their plans being exposed, and gives the role a nerf.

[BlazinIce]

Josh just please make spy not hear mafia chat so mafia can actually communicate
It takes five seconds to put into the PTR, just delete the code that allows it to do so

Spy is still pretty strong without hearing Mafia chat. I support this change entirely. Spy being able to listen just removes all strategy from Mafia.

Yeah. And if spy is still too strong, add a mafia role that can visit other mafia roles

[RetralMega]

My ultimate suggestion:
Stop catering to children who don't know how to play.
The Witch change is a prime example.
It's way too OP.
All Witch needed was a one-time autovest, which was a well supported suggestion, but ignored.

[Achilles]

It seems like the type of thing that needs a poll with thousands of votes. I really think the people who want that change are high Elo ranked players and the majority won't be for it. I could be wrong though.

[BlazinIce]

I'm not saying it's hard to change but what does spy do without that? Do we just remove the role entirely? What about the spy skin? Is removing a role really going to rejuvenate the community? I have my doubts.

How many people do you think will come to the forums after the change saying spy was their favorite role and that were ruining the game?

It's not removing the role, it's removing the ability to see mafia chat. Mafia never talk anyway, under fear of a spy finding them.

[RetralMega]

It seems like the type of thing that needs a poll with thousands of votes. I really think the people who want that change are high Elo ranked players and the majority won't be for it. I could be wrong though.

Again.
Stop catering to children who don't know how to play.
Making something based on a lack of skill is much worse than having them learn how to workaround a role's weakness and use it's strengths.
This Spy change would balance the game incredibly well on it's own.

The only issue is the new Witch change, which unbalances it. Makes Mafia have more of an advantage than they need.

Basically, just revert the Witch change and remove Spy's ability to see Mafia chat for overall better balance.

[shelboo]

As a person who is all about dem casual game modes, I'd be in favor of trying out the Spy being unable to hear the Mafia's night chat. The ability to see whispers and see who the Mafia visits at night is powerful enough. If there were a poll started, I'd definitely be on the side in favor of removing the ability to read Mafia's night chat.

[RetralMega]

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55676
Made a thread with a poll for the Spy change.

[Nellyfox]

How many people do you think will come to the forums after the change saying spy was their favorite role and that were ruining the game?

I either missed this line or it was edited in after my post, so:

Hi, spy role is my favorite. I like snooping, but I can live with not being able to see Mafia chat. Balance is more important than favorite aspects.

The correct route to go down for this is to collect a bunch of ideas from this thread and propose them in a thread like your planned changes for 1.5.9. That way you can get feedback from the thousands of people you want to hear from about the possible changes.

[Achilles]

I really like the idea of replacing the YouTube feed with a "community decides poll" encouraging all players to cast their vote. Already designing this out.

[SuperPacmaniaMaker]

I think it would be great if we finally did something to the Spy which currently serves as a hard counter to the Mafia. Preferably a rework since I've seen past arguments on here.
This rework is nice ---> viewtopic.php?f=14&t=53735


I'd also like to see the ranked role list get changed in a manner where Vampires have a 0% chance of spawning (so basically get rid of the any role). Maybe even give them their own game mode too.

And, more or less, nerf the transporter. A good start would be to not let a transporter transport jester guilt

I can't think of anything else at the moment.

[alex1234321]

Spy should be removed. It completely ruins the concept of all Mafia games- uninformed majority vs informed minority. Spy removes the ability for scum to communicate, and communication is a core aspect of this game.

[RetralMega]

Spy should be removed. It completely ruins the concept of all Mafia games- uninformed majority vs informed minority. Spy removes the ability for scum to communicate, and communication is a core aspect of this game.

So Spy should be removed because it can read Mafia chat rather than just removing it's ability to read Mafia chat?

[alex1234321]

Spy should be removed. It completely ruins the concept of all Mafia games- uninformed majority vs informed minority. Spy removes the ability for scum to communicate, and communication is a core aspect of this game.

So Spy should be removed because it can read Mafia chat rather than just removing it's ability to read Mafia chat?

Scum should also be able to whisper freely and roles like Consort and Consigliere should be able to claim their Town counterparts without a Spy finding out.

[RetralMega]

Spy should be removed. It completely ruins the concept of all Mafia games- uninformed majority vs informed minority. Spy removes the ability for scum to communicate, and communication is a core aspect of this game.

So Spy should be removed because it can read Mafia chat rather than just removing it's ability to read Mafia chat?

Scum should also be able to whisper freely and roles like Consort and Consigliere should be able to claim their Town counterparts without a Spy finding out.

Blackmailer can read whispers too.

[TrueGent]

Spy is completely busted as it is, even just seeing Mafia visits is insanely good.
Letting it see mafia chat is overkill.

[alex1234321]

Spy should be removed. It completely ruins the concept of all Mafia games- uninformed majority vs informed minority. Spy removes the ability for scum to communicate, and communication is a core aspect of this game.

So Spy should be removed because it can read Mafia chat rather than just removing it's ability to read Mafia chat?

Scum should also be able to whisper freely and roles like Consort and Consigliere should be able to claim their Town counterparts without a Spy finding out.

Blackmailer can read whispers too.

Whispers should help scum more than they help Town. Scum need to communicate secretly, not Town.

[TrueGent]

Witch needs something to help it survive against getting crosskilled by Mafia and NKs. Just make it survive a single scum attack so you dont have to straddle a dumb line between townie and scummy when you play Witch.
Transporter needs to be made less survivable, because right now you can just WIFOM with transporting yourself until endgame even if there are no protectives.

Probably 2 of the most clear cut changes that I would support.

[fornycation]

Spy is actually my favorite role and I would be completely fine if it was changed to not be able to see mafia night whispers. I don't get why it would need thousands of votes to get done when all of the changes that were made in the past had little to know community feedback before implemented.

[RetralMega]

It seems like the type of thing that needs a poll with thousands of votes. I really think the people who want that change are high Elo ranked players and the majority won't be for it. I could be wrong though.

But the high ELO ranked players are who you should be catering to, because competitive play should always be at it's peak. I'm certain no one will mind the Spy change, and quite honestly I'd like to remove Spy and replace it with a Tracker (SC2 Detective) (so the skin still fits) but if we're not doing that then this is a definite step in the right direction.

I'd also fully support this.

[SuperPacmaniaMaker]

It seems like the type of thing that needs a poll with thousands of votes. I really think the people who want that change are high Elo ranked players and the majority won't be for it. I could be wrong though.

But the high ELO ranked players are who you should be catering to, because competitive play should always be at it's peak. I'm certain no one will mind the Spy change, and quite honestly I'd like to remove Spy and replace it with a Tracker (SC2 Detective) (so the skin still fits) but if we're not doing that then this is a definite step in the right direction.

Instead of trying to turn the Spy into what's basically a reverse lookout, he could just use a much better rework.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=53735

I really think this rework should be used because it's original and still keeps the idea of retaining the "spy".

[RetralMega]

It seems like the type of thing that needs a poll with thousands of votes. I really think the people who want that change are high Elo ranked players and the majority won't be for it. I could be wrong though.

But the high ELO ranked players are who you should be catering to, because competitive play should always be at it's peak. I'm certain no one will mind the Spy change, and quite honestly I'd like to remove Spy and replace it with a Tracker (SC2 Detective) (so the skin still fits) but if we're not doing that then this is a definite step in the right direction.

Instead of trying to turn the Spy into what's basically a reverse lookout, he could just use a much better rework.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 14&t=53735

I really think this rework should be used because it's original and still keeps the idea of retaining the "spy".

That is worse than the current Spy.