HereThereEverywhere wrote:TommyGallus wrote:Shilster wrote:TommyGallus wrote:B r i n g b a c k o l d S p y.
Seriously, the only fun part of that role is being able to read whispers and now BMer is the one that can do that???? Not to mention how useless the "bug" is. I'm not gonna lie, being able to see who mafia visits can be pretty helpful, but I would much rather have old Spy back for the sake of that role not being a trashy lookout.
Yeah, BMG should bring back a role that can easily confirm itself and ruins the point of Mafia chat.
There are several roles that can easily confirm themselves. Spy isn't special. And ruins the point of mafia chat? Mafia didn't have any problem talking differently to counter Spy, so that's not a problem. The new Spy sucks, it's bug is trash, and is a boring role. Give back whispers and that would fix Spy.
Boring is subjective, don't use it to argue about anything unless the majority thinks it's boring, which I highly doubt you know.
Arguing balance requires more than saying "It sucks, it's trash, it's boring," you need to give evidence as to why it's trash or it sucks. I can literally use your own words against you here.
The old Spy sucked, its whisper and Mafia-chat reading was trash, and it was a shit role. Except I'll back up what I say, reading whispers means you were always immediately confirmed whenever you want, sure, other roles can confirm easily too, but that's not an excuse to give Spy an ability that is literally just for confirming itself and making no evildoers whisper, it's a TI so all of its abilities should be about gaining information, and if one of its abilities to do that doesn't get any information reliably like whisper reading, it shouldn't have that ability. You honestly support Spy being able to read the Mafia chat? Okay, let's make a role that can read Jailor chat. Tell me how balanced that is, the Jailor can't ask the jailed person their role or will because it would give all that information to whoever can read that chat. Sure, Jailor can try something like "I'll spam roles and then you say yours", but this just doesn't work for Mafia, when they do it with say a Consig, it confirms that Mafia has a Consig. Mafia has a lower winrate than Town, they don't need to be shafted like this. Mafia did have a problem trying to counter Spy, that's why they got rid of the fucking ability in the first place. Well, it was the second place, the first place was making Mafia know when there was a Spy. Do you know why they stopped that? Because they got rid of Spy's bad ability to read Mafia chat. The Devs even tried to make a compromise with not getting rid of Spy's ability to read Mafia chat, it legitimately did not work, supporting Spy reading Mafia chat is just supporting unbalanced and unfun mechanics, and you cannot tell me that not being able to talk to your team properly is not an "unfun mechanic". The difference between me and you saying these things is that there is nothing inherently more or less boring about Spy over other roles, it has more interactability than Medium, and I enjoy playing Medium. However, actively not being able to speak to your team out of fear of literally screwing everyone over is not fun, it's a stupid and stressful mechanic that shafts Mafia and just doesn't allow them to plan like they should be able to.
actually your Jailor analogy is wrong because if a good role can read jailor talk the jailor would not change how he talks to the jailed target because they know the person reading is good
also the new spy should be removed because it is trash for the reason TommyGallus said you jerk it was fun, which is more important than balance