Remove survivor from role list.

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Remove survivor from role list.

Postby DNKraken » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:30 am

I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby Flavorable » Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:55 am

I don't think we can agree.

Survivor is, by far, my favorite role.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:08 am

Did you think about...not claiming survivor?
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby EqsyLootz » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:46 am

Survivor is fun because I can do questionable plays on both sides without being killed :).
I can also betray people in the blink of an eye.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby Flavorable » Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:45 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Did you think about...not claiming survivor?


I always claim Surv, and it is by far my best played role still, with the most amount of wins out of every role in the game.

I think Surv is more about attitude and being valuable to all factions, than it is about sitting idly by, or pretending you're something you're not.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:11 pm

Flavorable wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Did you think about...not claiming survivor?


I always claim Surv, and it is by far my best played role still, with the most amount of wins out of every role in the game.

I think Surv is more about attitude and being valuable to all factions, than it is about sitting idly by, or pretending you're something you're not.


For me it usually goes better to claim VH or something easy like trapper
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby dolphina » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:01 pm

surv is hilarious
both when you are surv and when you, as an evil, lynch survs
when you’re surv you get to spectate the chaos and chill and when you’re evil you get to cackle maniacally as the surv dies because of something you or another evil did
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby Boredfan1 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:14 pm

DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.


Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby alex1234321 » Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:22 am

Boredfan1 wrote:
DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.


Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.


Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby Boredfan1 » Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:48 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.


Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.


Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.


Bodyguard is a stupid role to claim because one, it makes you vulnerable to evils and two, it is easy to disprove.
Doctor is a stupid role to claim for the same reason as bodyguard.
Escort is stupid for the same reason as doctor.
Sheriff is a bad role to claim because it's so easy to be exposed.
Transporter shouldn't be claimed unless there is a transporter but even then, it's pretty risky.
Mayor is stupid to claim because it's too easy of a lie to expose
Jailor is stupid to claim as you'll get executed or otherwise killed
ETC

There aren't many good roles to claim when evil.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:42 am

Without jailor meta tps are not easy to disprove at all
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:20 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Without jailor meta tps are not easy to disprove at all


Fair but there's no why to get rid of that meta right now.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:41 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.


Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.


Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.


Bodyguard is a stupid role to claim because one, it makes you vulnerable to evils and two, it is easy to disprove.
Doctor is a stupid role to claim for the same reason as bodyguard.
Escort is stupid for the same reason as doctor.
Sheriff is a bad role to claim because it's so easy to be exposed.
Transporter shouldn't be claimed unless there is a transporter but even then, it's pretty risky.
Mayor is stupid to claim because it's too easy of a lie to expose
Jailor is stupid to claim as you'll get executed or otherwise killed
ETC

There aren't many good roles to claim when evil.


One of the biggest problems with the game is how easily Town roles can confirm themselves. But there isn't anything specifically wrong with Survivor causing it to have a hard time fakeclaiming compared to other non-Town roles. If it was really so hard to claim all those roles then all scum would be lynched instantly every game. The point of claims isn't to permanently deceive the Town. It's to trick the town for just long enough to reach majority. So a Survivor, just like any other non-Town role, can claim roles like Bodyguard, Doctor, Sheriff, and Medium and have a reasonable chance of getting away with it for 2-3 days before the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt. And of course they can still go for claims like Investigator, Lookout, Spy, and Escort if the situation permits it and there's always the option of telling the truth. Anyway, any role that can confirm itself should either be removed from Ranked or modified to no longer be confirmable such as silent transports. But this isn't a problem specific to Survivor and Survivor certainly shouldn't be changed because it's too hard to fakeclaim as.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby Boredfan1 » Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:47 am

alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.


Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.


Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.


Bodyguard is a stupid role to claim because one, it makes you vulnerable to evils and two, it is easy to disprove.
Doctor is a stupid role to claim for the same reason as bodyguard.
Escort is stupid for the same reason as doctor.
Sheriff is a bad role to claim because it's so easy to be exposed.
Transporter shouldn't be claimed unless there is a transporter but even then, it's pretty risky.
Mayor is stupid to claim because it's too easy of a lie to expose
Jailor is stupid to claim as you'll get executed or otherwise killed
ETC

There aren't many good roles to claim when evil.


One of the biggest problems with the game is how easily Town roles can confirm themselves. But there isn't anything specifically wrong with Survivor causing it to have a hard time fakeclaiming compared to other non-Town roles. If it was really so hard to claim all those roles then all scum would be lynched instantly every game. The point of claims isn't to permanently deceive the Town. It's to trick the town for just long enough to reach majority. So a Survivor, just like any other non-Town role, can claim roles like Bodyguard, Doctor, Sheriff, and Medium and have a reasonable chance of getting away with it for 2-3 days before the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt. And of course they can still go for claims like Investigator, Lookout, Spy, and Escort if the situation permits it and there's always the option of telling the truth. Anyway, any role that can confirm itself should either be removed from Ranked or modified to no longer be confirmable such as silent transports. But this isn't a problem specific to Survivor and Survivor certainly shouldn't be changed because it's too hard to fakeclaim as.


1-Evils very often do get lynched instantly for fake claiming.
2-Evils rarely get majority.
3-Sheriff is easy to disprove like I said
4-No one trusts medium, they almost always get lynched or exed or otherwise killed at night
5-Claiming invest, LO, Spy and ESC puts a huge target on your back and increases your chances of getting killed
6-Every role except mafia or other evils can confirm themselves so basically, there should be instant winning evil roles.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby alex1234321 » Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:24 pm

Boredfan1 wrote: Spoiler:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.


Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.


Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.


Bodyguard is a stupid role to claim because one, it makes you vulnerable to evils and two, it is easy to disprove.
Doctor is a stupid role to claim for the same reason as bodyguard.
Escort is stupid for the same reason as doctor.
Sheriff is a bad role to claim because it's so easy to be exposed.
Transporter shouldn't be claimed unless there is a transporter but even then, it's pretty risky.
Mayor is stupid to claim because it's too easy of a lie to expose
Jailor is stupid to claim as you'll get executed or otherwise killed
ETC

There aren't many good roles to claim when evil.


One of the biggest problems with the game is how easily Town roles can confirm themselves. But there isn't anything specifically wrong with Survivor causing it to have a hard time fakeclaiming compared to other non-Town roles. If it was really so hard to claim all those roles then all scum would be lynched instantly every game. The point of claims isn't to permanently deceive the Town. It's to trick the town for just long enough to reach majority. So a Survivor, just like any other non-Town role, can claim roles like Bodyguard, Doctor, Sheriff, and Medium and have a reasonable chance of getting away with it for 2-3 days before the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt. And of course they can still go for claims like Investigator, Lookout, Spy, and Escort if the situation permits it and there's always the option of telling the truth. Anyway, any role that can confirm itself should either be removed from Ranked or modified to no longer be confirmable such as silent transports. But this isn't a problem specific to Survivor and Survivor certainly shouldn't be changed because it's too hard to fakeclaim as.


1-Evils very often do get lynched instantly for fake claiming.
2-Evils rarely get majority.
3-Sheriff is easy to disprove like I said
4-No one trusts medium, they almost always get lynched or exed or otherwise killed at night
5-Claiming invest, LO, Spy and ESC puts a huge target on your back and increases your chances of getting killed
6-Every role except mafia or other evils can confirm themselves so basically, there should be instant winning evil roles.


1- Yes, and it should be easier for them to reliably fakeclaim. But that's an issue that pertains to all evil roles, and fakeclaiming is almost always better than telling the truth for most evil roles.
2- If this were true, evils would rarely win. They still win a fair share of games, so they have to get majority pretty often.
3- All claims will eventually be disproven, but a Sheriff claim can often last the player a day or two at least. And if you're Neutral and good at scumreading you could fake a red check.
4- Any Town that instantly lynches someone because they claimed a certain role is a dumb Town. If that were the optimal strategy, then fewer players would claim Medium and it wouldn't be optimal anymore.
5- If you're a Survivor you've got four vests for a reason. The only other non-Town roles that have to worry about this are Amne and Jester.
6- I don't understand what you're trying to say here.


Anyway, the main topic of this thread is Survivor. Any real or imagined problems related to evils fakeclaiming are going to hold for other evil roles as much if not more than Survivor, so it wouldn't make sense to change Survivor specifically to fix a problem that has to do with other roles. The only difference is that Survivor is on its own, but so is every other Neutral role. If you want to reduce Town confirmability, I'm all for that, but I don't see why Survivor needs special treatment.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby Boredfan1 » Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:31 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote: Spoiler:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.


Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.


Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.


Bodyguard is a stupid role to claim because one, it makes you vulnerable to evils and two, it is easy to disprove.
Doctor is a stupid role to claim for the same reason as bodyguard.
Escort is stupid for the same reason as doctor.
Sheriff is a bad role to claim because it's so easy to be exposed.
Transporter shouldn't be claimed unless there is a transporter but even then, it's pretty risky.
Mayor is stupid to claim because it's too easy of a lie to expose
Jailor is stupid to claim as you'll get executed or otherwise killed
ETC

There aren't many good roles to claim when evil.


One of the biggest problems with the game is how easily Town roles can confirm themselves. But there isn't anything specifically wrong with Survivor causing it to have a hard time fakeclaiming compared to other non-Town roles. If it was really so hard to claim all those roles then all scum would be lynched instantly every game. The point of claims isn't to permanently deceive the Town. It's to trick the town for just long enough to reach majority. So a Survivor, just like any other non-Town role, can claim roles like Bodyguard, Doctor, Sheriff, and Medium and have a reasonable chance of getting away with it for 2-3 days before the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt. And of course they can still go for claims like Investigator, Lookout, Spy, and Escort if the situation permits it and there's always the option of telling the truth. Anyway, any role that can confirm itself should either be removed from Ranked or modified to no longer be confirmable such as silent transports. But this isn't a problem specific to Survivor and Survivor certainly shouldn't be changed because it's too hard to fakeclaim as.


1-Evils very often do get lynched instantly for fake claiming.
2-Evils rarely get majority.
3-Sheriff is easy to disprove like I said
4-No one trusts medium, they almost always get lynched or exed or otherwise killed at night
5-Claiming invest, LO, Spy and ESC puts a huge target on your back and increases your chances of getting killed
6-Every role except mafia or other evils can confirm themselves so basically, there should be instant winning evil roles.


1- Yes, and it should be easier for them to reliably fakeclaim. But that's an issue that pertains to all evil roles, and fakeclaiming is almost always better than telling the truth for most evil roles.
2- If this were true, evils would rarely win. They still win a fair share of games, so they have to get majority pretty often.
3- All claims will eventually be disproven, but a Sheriff claim can often last the player a day or two at least. And if you're Neutral and good at scumreading you could fake a red check.
4- Any Town that instantly lynches someone because they claimed a certain role is a dumb Town. If that were the optimal strategy, then fewer players would claim Medium and it wouldn't be optimal anymore.
5- If you're a Survivor you've got four vests for a reason. The only other non-Town roles that have to worry about this are Amne and Jester.
6- I don't understand what you're trying to say here.


Anyway, the main topic of this thread is Survivor. Any real or imagined problems related to evils fakeclaiming are going to hold for other evil roles as much if not more than Survivor, so it wouldn't make sense to change Survivor specifically to fix a problem that has to do with other roles. The only difference is that Survivor is on its own, but so is every other Neutral role. If you want to reduce Town confirmability, I'm all for that, but I don't see why Survivor needs special treatment.


It's like you've never played Town of Salem....Literally all your counterpoints go against how the game actually gets played. Take mafia for example, people usually leave within the first day as mafia and are so easily lynched that it's quite hard to get the majority. And no, medium isn't an optimal role, people are as I've said, super suspicious of those claims and love to lynch and execute or shoot anyone who claims it. Also, just because you have vests, don't mean you are 100% safe, you can get rbed. And as for that last point, the point is that there's no point in removing roles that can confirm themselves because then there'd be no roles on town's side for an actual match because they all do.
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Re: Remove survivor from role list.

Postby alex1234321 » Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:27 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote: Spoiler:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.

Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.


Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.


Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.


Bodyguard is a stupid role to claim because one, it makes you vulnerable to evils and two, it is easy to disprove.
Doctor is a stupid role to claim for the same reason as bodyguard.
Escort is stupid for the same reason as doctor.
Sheriff is a bad role to claim because it's so easy to be exposed.
Transporter shouldn't be claimed unless there is a transporter but even then, it's pretty risky.
Mayor is stupid to claim because it's too easy of a lie to expose
Jailor is stupid to claim as you'll get executed or otherwise killed
ETC

There aren't many good roles to claim when evil.


One of the biggest problems with the game is how easily Town roles can confirm themselves. But there isn't anything specifically wrong with Survivor causing it to have a hard time fakeclaiming compared to other non-Town roles. If it was really so hard to claim all those roles then all scum would be lynched instantly every game. The point of claims isn't to permanently deceive the Town. It's to trick the town for just long enough to reach majority. So a Survivor, just like any other non-Town role, can claim roles like Bodyguard, Doctor, Sheriff, and Medium and have a reasonable chance of getting away with it for 2-3 days before the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt. And of course they can still go for claims like Investigator, Lookout, Spy, and Escort if the situation permits it and there's always the option of telling the truth. Anyway, any role that can confirm itself should either be removed from Ranked or modified to no longer be confirmable such as silent transports. But this isn't a problem specific to Survivor and Survivor certainly shouldn't be changed because it's too hard to fakeclaim as.


1-Evils very often do get lynched instantly for fake claiming.
2-Evils rarely get majority.
3-Sheriff is easy to disprove like I said
4-No one trusts medium, they almost always get lynched or exed or otherwise killed at night
5-Claiming invest, LO, Spy and ESC puts a huge target on your back and increases your chances of getting killed
6-Every role except mafia or other evils can confirm themselves so basically, there should be instant winning evil roles.


1- Yes, and it should be easier for them to reliably fakeclaim. But that's an issue that pertains to all evil roles, and fakeclaiming is almost always better than telling the truth for most evil roles.
2- If this were true, evils would rarely win. They still win a fair share of games, so they have to get majority pretty often.
3- All claims will eventually be disproven, but a Sheriff claim can often last the player a day or two at least. And if you're Neutral and good at scumreading you could fake a red check.
4- Any Town that instantly lynches someone because they claimed a certain role is a dumb Town. If that were the optimal strategy, then fewer players would claim Medium and it wouldn't be optimal anymore.
5- If you're a Survivor you've got four vests for a reason. The only other non-Town roles that have to worry about this are Amne and Jester.
6- I don't understand what you're trying to say here.


Anyway, the main topic of this thread is Survivor. Any real or imagined problems related to evils fakeclaiming are going to hold for other evil roles as much if not more than Survivor, so it wouldn't make sense to change Survivor specifically to fix a problem that has to do with other roles. The only difference is that Survivor is on its own, but so is every other Neutral role. If you want to reduce Town confirmability, I'm all for that, but I don't see why Survivor needs special treatment.


It's like you've never played Town of Salem....Literally all your counterpoints go against how the game actually gets played. Take mafia for example, people usually leave within the first day as mafia and are so easily lynched that it's quite hard to get the majority. And no, medium isn't an optimal role, people are as I've said, super suspicious of those claims and love to lynch and execute or shoot anyone who claims it. Also, just because you have vests, don't mean you are 100% safe, you can get rbed. And as for that last point, the point is that there's no point in removing roles that can confirm themselves because then there'd be no roles on town's side for an actual match because they all do.


What are you trying to argue here? To me it seems like your point is "it is impossible for evils to claim any role and they all get lynched and lose every game." I don't have any hard data since 2017 or so (when Mafia won 54 out of 117 AA games and Town won 34), but from my experience Mafia still wins at least a plurality of AA games and close to half of Ranked games. So it doesn't really seem like Mafia is having an exceptionally hard time not getting lynched.

The only major change that I know of since 2017 that would significantly harm Mafia in All Any was the lowering of the Mafia cap. Even then, Mafia won 29 of the 74 games I have where there were 4 or fewer Mafia compared to 28 Town wins. So definitely a lower win percentage but still a plurality. The only other significant changes I can think of were the Retributionist nerf and the addition of Ambusher and Hypno to the base game, both of which would probably provide small boosts to Mafia. So at least in All Any Mafia wins their fair share of games, and it doesn't seem "quite hard" for Mafia to get majority.
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