Witch in Ranked

[Ezio216707]

To be honest ranked is kinda braindead lately as is.


Had a Godfather claim medium D4, barely 1 sentence will, no copy and paste from dead chat.
Ironically enough the only 2 people that voted guilty were also mafia.

Sheep. But that's just how the game goes I guess.


Back on topic though since I don't know how this discussion went from "Witch is boring as hell" to "punishment for killing a townie"
Witch is most definitely boring to play, correct. If mafia has less than 4 brain cells, you are screwed. Correct.
However if we throw NK in there, we throw things a bit off balance in the eyes of some players (Honestly you will probably win as Witch easier than winning as SK or WW. Let's be honest, that hardly happened)

So I agree, replace Surv with Witch, or have it Jester + Exe (So there can be 2 Jesters at a time if target dies)
Or witch needs some kind of re-work, such as in the Card Game version where the witch silently poisons everyone and once everyone is poisoned, they all die and witch wins. (That would be really shitty for TOS itself but that's a suggestion)

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Vet is supposed to act pro-town so Mafia thinks they're a good target. If Vet is scumhunting and carrying the game, Mafia attacks them - and dies.
yeah, so vet is a bad kill, and punishes mafia for making a bad kill (unless vet playing russian roulette and alerts without doing anything, but balance should take in consideration good players anyway)

Yeah, but you'd never see a Vet vs GF standoff.
I have, many times and I have been vet and killer in that situation, in ranked (and any balanced mode) those are super unlikely to happen, and even then most of times the vet has only 1 alert, so the killer usually has advantage (unless its arso)

Jailor is an incredibly high risk, high reward role. If Jailor can be high risk high reward, so can Vet. If this is too much of a nerf, we can buff it in other ways. That's what I meant. I'm not saying buff Vet straight up.
Vet is way more high risk-high reward than vet but anyway thats not the point
I know, but I still think its better to leave vet like that instead of doing (in my opinion) unnecesary nerfs and then buffing it to compensate the nerfs

That's why keeping the bullets, but jailor's guilt, is better. There's more to lose so you're less likely to shoot in the first place. If you shoot scum you essentially get a "free bullet" if you take away a Vig bullet, if you shoot town it's no big deal cuz it's only an extra bullet.
you have a point, but witch is there (and will be always there) complete removal of guilt would be a nightmare

[syjfwbaobfwl]

You aren't supposed to claim Vet. Mafia isn't supposed to know you're vet, you're just supposed to act pro-town and push for Mafia lynches. That's an AMAZING kill...or it would be if the player wasn't a Veteran. That's how I play it anyways. Investigatives don't target pro-town people, nor do roleblockers.
Well, town protectives are likely to target pro towns, as you said TP punish bad kill cause they go on likely protected targets
LO is also likely to target pro towns
If vet player acts pro town then they might be protected, or be a veteran, so no thats not an amazing kill, that is a terrible kill if you think about it

And no TP probably left jailor if they know how to play, in high elo TPs (sometimes LO too) only go on jailor n1 to confirm themselves, then they leave jailor (and mafia thinks jailor is protected so they dont go on them)[b]

It's more likely than you think since GF has the best survival mechanics. And if Vet only has one alert that's on them. But a Vig can't do that. Vet is a high risk high reward role, that can only kill mafia once, and is confirmable...needs changes. Witch controlling Vet means Witch has synergy. That's a good thing. It means Vet reveals are just as risky as Vig reveals.
[b]I mean, vet revealing with witch alive can be as risky, sometimes even more risky than a vigi reveal (specially if escort exists)
Just imagine vet got revealed, they most likely got revealed cause they killed
2 alerts left
Witch obviusly will control townies into vet
Vet either keeps alerting and kills townies (which also reveals mafia the amount of alerts vet has) or doesnt alerts to avoid killing townies, which means mafia has open space to kill vet

That's why it needs to remove a bullet if it's completely guiltless. But with Jailor's guilt, keep the bullet count so there's more loss involved if the Vig chooses wrong.
[b]Ig you are right but im still not completely convinced[
Alex would be a better person to debate this/b]

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