Witch in Ranked

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Re: Witch in Ranked

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:40 pm

You aren't supposed to claim Vet. Mafia isn't supposed to know you're vet, you're just supposed to act pro-town and push for Mafia lynches. That's an AMAZING kill...or it would be if the player wasn't a Veteran. That's how I play it anyways. Investigatives don't target pro-town people, nor do roleblockers.

It's more likely than you think since GF has the best survival mechanics. And if Vet only has one alert that's on them. But a Vig can't do that. Vet is a high risk high reward role, that can only kill mafia once, and is confirmable...needs changes. Witch controlling Vet means Witch has synergy. That's a good thing. It means Vet reveals are just as risky as Vig reveals.

That's why it needs to remove a bullet if it's completely guiltless. But with Jailor's guilt, keep the bullet count so there's more loss involved if the Vig chooses wrong.

Pageget!
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Witch in Ranked

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:10 pm

Kirize12 wrote:You aren't supposed to claim Vet. Mafia isn't supposed to know you're vet, you're just supposed to act pro-town and push for Mafia lynches. That's an AMAZING kill...or it would be if the player wasn't a Veteran. That's how I play it anyways. Investigatives don't target pro-town people, nor do roleblockers.
Well, town protectives are likely to target pro towns, as you said TP punish bad kill cause they go on likely protected targets
LO is also likely to target pro towns
If vet player acts pro town then they might be protected, or be a veteran, so no thats not an amazing kill, that is a terrible kill if you think about it

And no TP probably left jailor if they know how to play, in high elo TPs (sometimes LO too) only go on jailor n1 to confirm themselves, then they leave jailor (and mafia thinks jailor is protected so they dont go on them)[b]

It's more likely than you think since GF has the best survival mechanics. And if Vet only has one alert that's on them. But a Vig can't do that. Vet is a high risk high reward role, that can only kill mafia once, and is confirmable...needs changes. Witch controlling Vet means Witch has synergy. That's a good thing. It means Vet reveals are just as risky as Vig reveals.
[b]I mean, vet revealing with witch alive can be as risky, sometimes even more risky than a vigi reveal (specially if escort exists)
Just imagine vet got revealed, they most likely got revealed cause they killed
2 alerts left
Witch obviusly will control townies into vet
Vet either keeps alerting and kills townies (which also reveals mafia the amount of alerts vet has) or doesnt alerts to avoid killing townies, which means mafia has open space to kill vet


That's why it needs to remove a bullet if it's completely guiltless. But with Jailor's guilt, keep the bullet count so there's more loss involved if the Vig chooses wrong.
[b]Ig you are right but im still not completely convinced[
Alex would be a better person to debate this/b]

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Re: Witch in Ranked

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:45 pm

Not gonna quote-tree, because the BBcode as broken. But -

It's a balance. Vet walks the line between "not pro-town enough to get protected, but pro-town enough to get killed", which is Mafia's ideal targets unless they're Jailor hunting. But mafia should 100% be killing pro-town players, or important roles - usually the former. Roles can't (usually) get someone lynched on their own, a player can. I've done it before. Got a mafia member lynched, got attacked and alerted, killed the GF.

Witch can do that. But they'd have to do it every night, which abolishes their ability to make other plays. Besides, controlling Vet to go on/not go on alert is just as fun.

Personally I'm okay with remove a bullet and guiltless as well. Witch can kill the same amount of townies as Vigilante now, but takes more skill not to accidentally kill scum. Witch automatically knowing who Vigilante is is also really bad btw, and part of the reason to remove Witchsigliere.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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