Remove -30 elo penalty for disconnects

[Colorbolt]

I get punishing leavers but at this point the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. Every time you disconnect it sets you back by like 5 games worth of elo. Thats like 1.5 hours of playtime. That's frankly way too much just to counter a minor problem because its making ranked feel like luck sometimes.

[James2]

Don’t leave.

[Colorbolt]

Don’t leave.

That better be ironic because if not youre retarded.

[Superalex11]

Don't leave.

[cob709]

leaving a game can affect the outcome, which is unfair to other players
as such you are punished for leaving while alive. you are also punished for leaving while dead, but slightly less severe
Don't leave your games.

[Colorbolt]

leaving a game can affect the outcome, which is unfair to other players
as such you are punished for leaving while alive. you are also punished for leaving while dead, but slightly less severe
Don't leave your games.

gl stopping the game from randomly disconnecting you broski
you saying this just makes me think that you never read the post or even used your brain before sending this

[Joacgroso]

Honestly I wouldn't want to play with leavers, regardless of why they leave. If only someone added a reconnect button...

[Colorbolt]

Honestly I wouldn't want to play with leavers, regardless of why they leave. If only someone added a reconnect button...

ok so for one, that doesnt do much to deter leavers because no amount of elo loss can convince the server not to kick someone out of a game. That means that number of genuine disconnects (which are most cases of leaving) are unaffected. Also, if someone really wanted to leave the game, they can easily just get themselves killed. I dont think that the small benefit of reducing the number of leaving cases by maybe like 10% or 5% is worth the huge annoyance when you get disconnected and end up wasting around 1.5 hours of playtime. I rarely ever get DC'd but every time it happens, it's a huge pain. It would make sense for people who leave while alive to be punished with a regular loss instead of an automatic -30.

[Joacgroso]

It may not deter leavers, but at least it moves them away from me. Also, you can't possibly know if most leaving cases are genuine disconnects or not. If you do, you should back it up with something. If someone gets themselves killed in order to leave the game they can be punished for gamethrowing as long as they admit it, which happens many times. But yes, it would be better if there was a reconnect button, and maybe a lesser elo loss if leaving was something very uncommon for the player.

[SilverCruz]

It may not deter leavers, but at least it moves them away from me. Also, you can't possibly know if most leaving cases are genuine disconnects or not. If you do, you should back it up with something. If someone gets themselves killed in order to leave the game they can be punished for gamethrowing as long as they admit it, which happens many times. But yes, it would be better if there was a reconnect button, and maybe a lesser elo loss if leaving is something very uncommon for the player.

The reconnect button will debut along with the Leaver Buster and the Spoony Movie.

Though, for real, while I don't play Ranked and don't usually have connection fits, I did have one case where my entire machine completely seized up. Even if I hadn't hard rebooted it and it managed to recover, the delay would've absolutely been long enough that I would've been dropped from the round anyway. While this fellow is being rather caustic, I do see the premise of where they're coming from. If the game is docking anything because an exterior force failed to keep you connected to the game, then that's stupid. It's like if a cop ran a hundred twenty in a school zone and obliterated a six year old, then arrested you for it.

Except without the comedic violence or gore. Though that said it would be hilarious for a little while if there were a death animation where there's a "Beep beep!" noise then the character just gets slammed by an ice cream truck flying in from nowhere, with special effects based on the character (for example, characters with a hat like John Hathorne having the hat spin in the air then hit the ground).

Certainly would be better than that overblown fight that Beelzebub has.

[Superalex11]

Colorbolt, what do you think the proportion is of players who get disconnected unintentionally to players who would choose to disconnect in unfavorable scenarios if they could without punishment?

[EqsyLootz]

leaving a game can affect the outcome, which is unfair to other players
as such you are punished for leaving while alive. you are also punished for leaving while dead, but slightly less severe
Don't leave your games.

gl stopping the game from randomly disconnecting you broski
you saying this just makes me think that you never read the post or even used your brain before sending this

Like the broski above stated, leaving whilst alive is against the rules and I strongly advise against it, it could warrent punishment and -30 elo as you stated.

Also get to masters elo it's only -15 there

[Colorbolt]

Colorbolt, what do you think the proportion is of players who get disconnected unintentionally to players who would choose to disconnect in unfavorable scenarios if they could without punishment?

Probably 9 to 1.

Honestly I wouldn't want to play with leavers, regardless of why they leave. If only someone added a reconnect button...

I dont think that because the game dc'd you means that you should have 1.5 hours of your playtime wasted. And reconnect button wont happen its guaranteed not to.

It may not deter leavers, but at least it moves them away from me. Also, you can't possibly know if most leaving cases are genuine disconnects or not. If you do, you should back it up with something. If someone gets themselves killed in order to leave the game they can be punished for gamethrowing as long as they admit it, which happens many times. But yes, it would be better if there was a reconnect button, and maybe a lesser elo loss if leaving was something very uncommon for the player.

People can also admit to leaving and get punished for that. I dont think a lot of people leave on purpose in ranked because it never really made much sense because even before the change, leaving guarantees a loss so why leave. So obviously most of the leaving cases would be unintentional.

leaving a game can affect the outcome, which is unfair to other players
as such you are punished for leaving while alive. you are also punished for leaving while dead, but slightly less severe
Don't leave your games.

gl stopping the game from randomly disconnecting you broski
you saying this just makes me think that you never read the post or even used your brain before sending this

Like the broski above stated, leaving whilst alive is against the rules and I strongly advise against it, it could warrent punishment and -30 elo as you stated.

Also get to masters elo it's only -15 there

Its not punished if you genuinely disconnected like are you 14 or something have some basic common sense thanks. If you could suggest ways in which I can avoid having the server kick me out then id like to hear em.

[Joacgroso]

If you really think that no one will leave in ranked if there is no punishment, you are being naive. I can imagine a lot of noobs thinking "my role is trash and I always lose when playing it, so I'll take the inevitable loss and leave day 1 so I can get the chance to actually win".

The reconnect button is not guaranteed not to happen. In fact, it is ""guaranteed to happen"", even though the devs have been saying the same for years. But as long as they don't confirm they won't implement it, there's no use in spreading misinformation.

I do think it would be nice if first time leavers got no penalty but then they got bigger and bigger penalties if they kept leaving. This will sound mean, but there's a way to avoid the server kicking you out: don't play if you know you are likely to disconnect. Not everyone has the same problem. And remember that leaving isn't only bad for you, it's also unfair for the other 14 people in the game.

[James2]

Don’t leave.

That better be ironic because if not youre retarded.

Don't leave. If you have crappy internet that makes you DC frequently then get better internet. Or don't play ranked.

[Colorbolt]

If you really think that no one will leave in ranked if there is no punishment, you are being naive. I can imagine a lot of noobs thinking "my role is trash and I always lose when playing it, so I'll take the inevitable loss and leave day 1 so I can get the chance to actually win".

The reconnect button is not guaranteed not to happen. In fact, it is ""guaranteed to happen"", even though the devs have been saying the same for years. But as long as they don't confirm they won't implement it, there's no use in spreading misinformation.

I do think it would be nice if first time leavers got no penalty but then they got bigger and bigger penalties if they kept leaving. This will sound mean, but there's a way to avoid the server kicking you out: don't play if you know you are likely to disconnect. Not everyone has the same problem. And remember that leaving isn't only bad for you, it's also unfair for the other 14 people in the game.

Obviously there will be a small number of people who leave every once in a while but that makes up for the minority of leaving cases and its just not worth it to implement such a harsh punishment for disconnecting.

And as for the reconnect button, I don't believe we should make any really complex suggestions like reconnection that would take really long to actually code and make it not easy to abuse. The devs probably don't want to put that much effort into the game and my suggestion is way easier to implement than the reconnect button. It doesn't take much thought or effort coding.

Also, I almost never disconnect, but my problem is that the game makes it a massive headache every time you disconnect. It's actually like one of the most annoying things about ranked because of how ridiculously harsh the punishment is for your occasional disconnect. I'm not saying that it happens to me often: I'm saying that it's almost unbearably annoying when it does happen because the punishment is completely absurdly unnecessarily harsh.

[WildCard65]

You got to be aware the server never receives a reason why someone is disconnected, not even for intentional disconnects, the socket is just closed either gracefully or ungracefully. Infact, I don't even think .NET has a way to differentiate a graceful socket disconnect versus and ungraceful disconnect. I mention .NET as Unity (the game's engine) is based on Mono which is a cross-platform implementation of the .NET Framework.

[Joacgroso]

Obviously there will be a small number of people who leave every once in a while but that makes up for the minority of leaving cases and its just not worth it to implement such a harsh punishment for disconnecting.

And as for the reconnect button, I don't believe we should make any really complex suggestions like reconnection that would take really long to actually code and make it not easy to abuse. The devs probably don't want to put that much effort into the game and my suggestion is way easier to implement than the reconnect button. It doesn't take much thought or effort coding.

Also, I almost never disconnect, but my problem is that the game makes it a massive headache every time you disconnect. It's actually like one of the most annoying things about ranked because of how ridiculously harsh the punishment is for your occasional disconnect. I'm not saying that it happens to me often: I'm saying that it's almost unbearably annoying when it does happen because the punishment is completely absurdly unnecessarily harsh.

Please stop claiming that intentional leavers are a minority when you have no proof to back it up. I know the reconnect button can be abused, but the devs have been "working on it" for years, and it will solve one of the most frustrating aspects of the game, while also allowing the devs to actually punish leavers.

[Colorbolt]

You got to be aware the server never receives a reason why someone is disconnected, not even for intentional disconnects, the socket is just closed either gracefully or ungracefully. Infact, I don't even think .NET has a way to differentiate a graceful socket disconnect versus and ungraceful disconnect. I mention .NET as Unity (the game's engine) is based on Mono which is a cross-platform implementation of the .NET Framework.

I never expected the devs to be able to fix abnormal disconnections. My whole point is that if they can't fix it, they shouldn't be punishing people so harshly for it.

Obviously there will be a small number of people who leave every once in a while but that makes up for the minority of leaving cases and its just not worth it to implement such a harsh punishment for disconnecting.

And as for the reconnect button, I don't believe we should make any really complex suggestions like reconnection that would take really long to actually code and make it not easy to abuse. The devs probably don't want to put that much effort into the game and my suggestion is way easier to implement than the reconnect button. It doesn't take much thought or effort coding.

Also, I almost never disconnect, but my problem is that the game makes it a massive headache every time you disconnect. It's actually like one of the most annoying things about ranked because of how ridiculously harsh the punishment is for your occasional disconnect. I'm not saying that it happens to me often: I'm saying that it's almost unbearably annoying when it does happen because the punishment is completely absurdly unnecessarily harsh.

Please stop claiming that intentional leavers are a minority when you have no proof to back it up. I know the reconnect button can be abused, but the devs have been "working on it" for years, and it will solve one of the most frustrating aspects of the game, while also allowing the devs to actually punish leavers.

It's dumb to assume that the majority of leavers are intentional because it's so obvious that's not the case just by using common sense, which apparently is something that a lot of people here lack. If people leave intentionally, they can be punished by being suspended if they say they're leaving. I'm not even saying that people shouldn't be punished at all for leaving, I'm saying that it should just be a regular loss instead of -30. Which makes sense to deter people from leaving on its own. -30 is just completely unnecessary and a ridiculous penalty for something that isn't even your fault half the time. Also, I wouldn't count on the devs to implement a reconnect button in the next, say, 5 years. They might not even implement it at all, if they completely lose interest in updating this game, which has already started to happen.

[James2]

It's trivially easy to prevent reconnection from being abused. Just don't count a person as having left while they're still capable of reconnecting.

[EqsyLootz]

Its not punished if you genuinely disconnected like are you 14 or something have some basic common sense thanks. If you could suggest ways in which I can avoid having the server kick me out then id like to hear em.

Typically web browser combined with poor internet connection could boot you out of games, unfortunate but the only solutions I can really present you is A: Get better internet or B: Buy the Steam version of the game. It's very rare to disconnect on the steam version of the game. But ofc your choice if you want to spend an additional 5$ on that.

[EqsyLootz]

Obviously there will be a small number of people who leave every once in a while but that makes up for the minority of leaving cases and its just not worth it to implement such a harsh punishment for disconnecting.

And as for the reconnect button, I don't believe we should make any really complex suggestions like reconnection that would take really long to actually code and make it not easy to abuse. The devs probably don't want to put that much effort into the game and my suggestion is way easier to implement than the reconnect button. It doesn't take much thought or effort coding.

Also, I almost never disconnect, but my problem is that the game makes it a massive headache every time you disconnect. It's actually like one of the most annoying things about ranked because of how ridiculously harsh the punishment is for your occasional disconnect. I'm not saying that it happens to me often: I'm saying that it's almost unbearably annoying when it does happen because the punishment is completely absurdly unnecessarily harsh.

Please stop claiming that intentional leavers are a minority when you have no proof to back it up. I know the reconnect button can be abused, but the devs have been "working on it" for years, and it will solve one of the most frustrating aspects of the game, while also allowing the devs to actually punish leavers.

One issue I have with a reconnect button is it could be easily abused. A Player leaves the game to prevent suspicion or on stand. The town might inno them then they can return to the game. So overall it could easily be abused in general.

[Superalex11]

It's dumb to assume that the majority of leavers are intentional because it's so obvious that's not the case just by using common sense

The point that you seem to be continually missing, despite responding to briefly, is that the concern shouldn't be how many people are intentionally leaving currently, but rather how many would intentionally leave under your suggested circumstances. The fundamental reasoning behind the extra punishment for leaving over losing (i.e. -30 elo vs whatever otherwise normal amount) is to encourage players to see a game through to the end. You have to gauge how strongly players would feel they still should play a game to the end if they believe they'll receive no punishment for leaving early (in their perspective, resulting in a net 0 punishment since they're losing anyway).

Also, just for some context and because I was curious, over the past 7 months there have been 800 closed leaving reports for ranked games. 600 of them are innocent, and 200 guilty, giving us a ratio of 3:1. Again, this is current system though, and the focus should be on what would happen under these changes. The point here, though, is that you're already starting from a misjudged position, Colorbolt. If 1 in 4 leavers are already doing so intentionally to a point so explicit the current trial system - in all its failures and weaknesses - punishes them, how many do you think are doing so intentionally but not saying anything (so as to not get punished)? And do you really think there would not be significant worsening?

[Joacgroso]

It's dumb to assume that the majority of leavers are intentional because it's so obvious that's not the case just by using common sense, which apparently is something that a lot of people here lack. If people leave intentionally, they can be punished by being suspended if they say they're leaving. I'm not even saying that people shouldn't be punished at all for leaving, I'm saying that it should just be a regular loss instead of -30. Which makes sense to deter people from leaving on its own. -30 is just completely unnecessary and a ridiculous penalty for something that isn't even your fault half the time.

I'm not assuming anything about why people leave. I'm just saying that you can't make assumptions either. Even though some people say they are leaving, the amount of people who do so is very low compared to the amount of people who leave. And I don't think all those mafia leaves n1 were accidental. Again, if there is no punishment for leaving, bad players will start to leave early when they don't think they can win (which might be when they get a role they don't like, so day 1). I think the penalty could be more lenient, but become harsher if it happens frequently.

Also, I wouldn't count on the devs to implement a reconnect button in the next, say, 5 years. They might not even implement it at all, if they completely lose interest in updating this game, which has already started to happen.

I know that's true. I'm just talking about what I wish was implemented, not about what I think the devs will actually do. To be fair, they're just as likely to implement the button than they are to remove the elo penalty, since they very rarely listen to suggestions.

One issue I have with a reconnect button is it could be easily abused. A Player leaves the game to prevent suspicion or on stand. The town might inno them then they can return to the game. So overall it could easily be abused in general.

I'm aware that people could exploit it, but I feel like it would do more good than harm. If people are able to reconnect, the devs can start punishing everyone who doesn't and there will be less leavers. Of course, people should be allowed to target leavers at day/night if the button was implemented. And even if someone leaves on stand, people will feel compelled to vote guilty just in case the person is planning to reconnect, which will reduce the impact of leavers since town wouldn't get a double kill when an evil leaves on stand.

Also, just for some context and because I was curious, over the past 7 months there have been 800 closed leaving reports for ranked games. 600 of them are innocent, and 200 guilty, giving us a ratio of 3:1. Again, this is current system though, and the focus should be on what would happen under these changes. The point here, though, is that you're already starting from a misjudged position, Colorbolt. If 1 in 4 leavers are already doing so intentionally to a point so explicit the current trial system - in all its failures and weaknesses - punishes them, how many do you think are doing so intentionally but not saying anything (so as to not get punished)? And do you really think there would not be significant worsening?

Is it even possible to report people for leaving? I thought only jurors could do that.

[EqsyLootz]

Is it even possible to report people for leaving? I thought only jurors could do that.

It was implemented a couple months ago where players can report others for leaving. The goal was that people wouldnt report leavers for gamethrowing which clogged the queue. However one huge problem is that there's like 500 new leaving reports daily and it's just a pain.