New ranked sucks.

[zicafeliped1]

It's just soooo boring, I used to play everyday but taking nk off kinda ruined the fun. Sometimes I play all any but that's it. I liked flexing I was master on season 4, but this one I don't see the incentive to play ranked. The new role list is just bland, and isn't even really balanced. Maf only has winning chances if Witch/ambusher gets lucky or if jailor/vig fucks up real bad.

[EqsyLootz]

It's just soooo boring, I used to play everyday but taking nk off kinda ruined the fun. Sometimes I play all any but that's it. I liked flexing I was master on season 4, but this one I don't see the incentive to play ranked. The new role list is just bland, and isn't even really balanced. Maf only has winning chances if Witch/ambusher gets lucky or if jailor/vig fucks up real bad.

You're a littel late considering the season started a while ago but this list requires more skill than luck which is why some people are unhappy NK are gone.

[Ezradekezra]

And here we have "bring NK back" thread number 456787654345678765434567876543456789

The presence of a NK slot detracts from the Mafia winrate far more than it does from the Town winrate

[SilverCruz]

So just make Ranked V3 a non-ranked role list.

Problem solved.

[dbpeanut]

Has it crossed anybody's minds that having a NK slot is more fun to people?
If that many people like having a NK, just make it to where it's present in one of the base Classic modes. Like when I first joined, SK was present in Classic, that worked out well because it also helped teach noobs that sometimes, you don't have teammates.
Also, even if NK subtracts from Mafia winrates, there's a massive power difference between 2 killing roles and 1 killing role. Town has to work faster and better usually.

[Ezradekezra]

Has it crossed anybody's minds that having a NK slot is more fun to people?
If that many people like having a NK, just make it to where it's present in one of the base Classic modes. Like when I first joined, SK was present in Classic, that worked out well because it also helped teach noobs that sometimes, you don't have teammates.
Also, even if NK subtracts from Mafia winrates, there's a massive power difference between 2 killing roles and 1 killing role. Town has to work faster and better usually.

You also seem to be forgetting the following:
- The extra kills can hit the Mafia too, which kinda punishes them for playing well
- Adding a NK means that not all of the evils can win together, which massively weakens the scumteam due to the inability to cooperate

---
@Soul

You're better at explaining this than I am. Anything to add here?

[SilverCruz]

All Any isn't a static role list.

Can you present a reason to not bring Ranked V3 back as a non-ranked role list?

[Ezradekezra]

All Any isn't a static role list.

Can you present a reason to not bring Ranked V3 back as a non-ranked role list?

I don't know what ranked v3 is

Is that the Season 3 role list?

[SilverCruz]

I guess, the one with Neutral Killing and Neutral Evil instead of Executioner and Witch.

I probably gotta start calling it something else, this isn't catching on.

[Joacgroso]

In any case, you should be the one posting reasons why that list should be added, not the other way around.
I agree that a semi-balanced rolelist would be cool. I'm not completely sure if it should be the "V3" one. If balance isn't the top priority, maybe bringing back something similar to the legacy list would be better. NBs should have a chance to spawn, maybe even vampires too.

[Ezradekezra]

I guess, the one with Neutral Killing and Neutral Evil instead of Executioner and Witch.

I probably gotta start calling it something else, this isn't catching on.

That'd be Season 4's list

I'd probably not support it since it would bring all of Season 4's issues with it, just without the elo attached to it.

[SilverCruz]

Welp.

And what issues were those exactly? Can't be worse than Classic.

[Ezradekezra]

Welp.

And what issues were those exactly? Can't be worse than Classic.

The aforementioned issues with NKs caused people to leave every time they rolled evil, further tilting the scales in the Town's favor

It was basically a game of luck, since the Town won a disproportionate number of games

[dbpeanut]

You know I'm usually don't care about balancing in specific circumstances, but is there any particular reason it's absolutely impossible to add a NK to unranked or Classic?
I mean at bare minimum, have it be random between different types of NKs. People generally enjoy all of them equally.

And let's say theoretically that you'd absolutely have to add a NK to Ranked in the event that you've added it to Classic/Unranked. What's the actual issue? Not going to shit on you guys for caring about elo, but the seasons are inconsistent, and half of Ranked is about adapting, would it actually be too hard to adapt to various situations a SK or WW would create?
If you've ever played All Any where nothing is confirmed until it happens, the answer is no.
Then again I was only silver in either the first or second season, whichever was around as my join date- which still had SK.

[Descender]

You know I'm usually don't care about balancing in specific circumstances, but is there any particular reason it's absolutely impossible to add a NK to unranked or Classic?
I mean at bare minimum, have it be random between different types of NKs. People generally enjoy all of them equally.

And let's say theoretically that you'd absolutely have to add a NK to Ranked in the event that you've added it to Classic/Unranked. What's the actual issue? Not going to shit on you guys for caring about elo, but the seasons are inconsistent, and half of Ranked is about adapting, would it actually be too hard to adapt to various situations a SK or WW would create?
If you've ever played All Any where nothing is confirmed until it happens, the answer is no.
Then again I was only silver in either the first or second season, whichever was around as my join date- which still had SK.

nks in general arent very balanced
like sk is a nerfed godfather

[syjfwbaobfwl]

NK was clearly not fun for people, as it was more common to see NK suiciding into vet/bg n1, or just outright leaving the game d1, and they fked up mafia winrates; the winrate was like 70% town, 20% mafia and 10% NK
Now the winrate is like 60/40 and people say its unbalanced and blah blah blah, hypocrytes

Was the old rolelist more fun? Imo yes, Was it balanced? Absolutely no

[Joacgroso]

I don't think we would have that problem's if the "V3" lists was added as a casual gamemode. The only reason anyone would play it instead of actual RP is to play as NK or jester. So people won't be mad if they roll those roles. I guess it's possible they still get mad if they roll mafia, though.

[SilverCruz]

Welp.

And what issues were those exactly? Can't be worse than Classic.

The aforementioned issues with NKs caused people to leave every time they rolled evil, further tilting the scales in the Town's favor

It was basically a game of luck, since the Town won a disproportionate number of games

I mean, maaaybe the game should have a better answer than "Guess they'll die."? Maaaybe if a Neutral Killing quits, have a bot take it over that just attacks at random (In Arsonist's case, specifically ignoring anyone who is already doused or who was doused and then stopped being doused), and maaaybe if a Mafia quits, let the rest of the Mafia use them as a sockpuppet? Or even, at bare minimum, let the Forger and Janitor target Mafia at will so that if the Godfather quits they can destroy the evidence? (Though that would be most effective with getting rid of the Jailor's roleblock when it doesn't execute so the Mafia can't still get deadlocked through no fault of the ones that didn't quit). I'll grant you the random attacking would be a pain in the neck for Witch, but that could be sidestepped by, f'rinstance, giving it Powerful Defense specifically against Evil (so Werewolf can't flatten it) and making it so that if it controls an Arsonist into itself (itself the Witch, not itself the Arsonist) while it is presently doused, it gets undoused. Let it know when it's doused if you want to be that extreme about it.

NK was clearly not fun for people, as it was more common to see NK suiciding into vet/bg n1, or just outright leaving the game d1, and they fked up mafia winrates; the winrate was like 70% town, 20% mafia and 10% NK
Now the winrate is like 60/40 and people say its unbalanced and blah blah blah, hypocrytes

Was the old rolelist more fun? Imo yes, Was it balanced? Absolutely no

Who cares about win rates if it's not Ranked?

[Joacgroso]

Who cares about win rates if it's not Ranked?

I do. Ranked isn't the only gamemode meant to be balanced. Non-chaos gamemodes should aim to be balanced. Even some chaos gamemodes like DP deserve balance too.

[Ezradekezra]

Who cares about win rates if it's not Ranked?

If it's supposed to be a balanced non-chaos game mode

Then everyone should care about the winrates

[dbpeanut]

The game is overall not balanced, town usually has a direct advantage over other factions with few exceptions.
If people have fun playing NK, what does it matter if they add a SK to Unranked or Classic? Win rates are always drastically different in unranked to ranked. Mostly because people still will have no idea how to play until they reach like the 200 game mark and even then I've seen plenty of people who still don't focus or don't care enough to try hard.

Regardless, people want NK, add NK to Classic. Easy.

[SilverCruz]

Who cares about win rates if it's not Ranked?

If it's supposed to be a balanced non-chaos game mode

Then everyone should care about the winrates

"Chaos" is just a label.

The game is overall not balanced, town usually has a direct advantage over other factions with few exceptions.
If people have fun playing NK, what does it matter if they add a SK to Unranked or Classic? Win rates are always drastically different in unranked to ranked. Mostly because people still will have no idea how to play until they reach like the 200 game mark and even then I've seen plenty of people who still don't focus or don't care enough to try hard.

Regardless, people want NK, add NK to Classic. Easy.

No, because Classic is a mess for other reasons.

[Soulshade55r]

Legacy ranked role list needs to be it's own thing (first ranked but if ld swap ts for RT).

Ranked shouldn't really have nk if nb is considered too swingy but I will admit that current ranked just lacks variety right now.

I want to play tos with neutrals but not in a role list that is not all any - _-


Edit: ill actually say this but I found previous ranked pretty underwhelming to play from memory, I think most people just miss the chaos factor of nk.

Its very hard to say how you could make ranked have more variety, one thing would to have more nes like witch that side aganist town but have different impacts on the game.

[Jakinator178]

And here we have "bring NK back" thread number 456787654345678765434567876543456789

The presence of a NK slot detracts from the Mafia winrate far more than it does from the Town winrate

Having 4 mafia roles and a GUARANTEED WITCH detracts from town winrate FAR MORE than NK detracting from mafia win rate!

You don't kill an evil by night 3 in standard ranked your team is as good as dead.

[Ezradekezra]

And here we have "bring NK back" thread number 456787654345678765434567876543456789

The presence of a NK slot detracts from the Mafia winrate far more than it does from the Town winrate

Having 4 mafia roles and a GUARANTEED WITCH detracts from town winrate FAR MORE than NK detracting from mafia win rate!

You don't kill an evil by night 3 in standard ranked your team is as good as dead.

You're not taking the fact that the S4 Town winrate was astronomically high into account