What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

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What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby TuNa36 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:22 am

First of all. I did take a break from TOS but this gamemode is what brought me back here, and I think I need to state what's wrong in this gamemode.

EDIT: 17 Oct 2021.

1. Veteran meta.

As you all know, whenever TT timer starts and there is a Veteran with alerts present,every visiting role is forced to visit the Veteran and suicide, and non visiting roles usually get hung.
This meta does not encourage scum reading, which is the whole point of the TT mode, just pure metagaming and whoever refuses to visit is considered to be the TT.

Proposed Fix:
If there is a Veteran in game, after TT timer starts they lose all their alerts.
This is a way to counter the meta without removing the role in fact.

2. Witch in classic TT.
Witch is more like a liability to mafia rather than an ally. The fact that Witch does not know who his allies are is itself a problem, and even worse Witch can mistakenly get a mafia or the TT killed by controlling them into a Veteran, controlling a Vigilante onto maf/TT or simply witching a TP on maf's target.
And another issue is, to start timer Witch needs to die to Witches lose %99 of Town Traitor games.

Proposed Fix:
EXCLUSIVELY for this game mode , let Witch and Mafia know each other, and Witch should be able to win while dead if it is an evil win. ( Mafia wins when Witch is dead )
There is a similar role to the Witch in ToS in another game called Throne of Lies, the Sellsword, its mechanics are very similar to the Witch and the only win condition is an non-BD win ( an evil win ). It can win even when he is dead.
I think the same situation should be for Witch as well. Witches should win when it is an evil win, no matter if witch is alive or not.
OR
Replace the witch with a fourth RM.

3. The chain-jail last mafia issue.
To not start TT Timer the last mafia/coven member is chain jailed by the Jailor, and this usually ends up in the Maf/Coven leaving the game.

Proposed Fix: Give the ability to suicide without leaving , just like the Assassin in Throne of Lies EXCLUSIVELY for the last mafia/coven member. It is slightly unfair for evils to be chain jailed to prevent TT timer if a majority win is impossible.

4. The night chat meta.

There is a new meta to find out who is TT by just asking how many messages a maf member sent whole game. The TT will automatically be exposed when all the players alive give out the number of messages a maf member sent, because the TT is able to see maf chat, thus more messages of the specified Mafia member.

Proposed Fix:
Add a night/day chat filter to the chat filter system to counter this meta. This is slightly unfair for the TT that there is no way they can separate the day/night messages with the filter.

5. Jailor and Medium Traitors need tabs in chat.

Why would TT Jailor be forced to talk to his jailed target only , and not his Maf/Coven ? There should be tabs in chat for that, one tab for the faction chat and another for Jail.
Same goes for TT Medium for Maf/Coven chat and dead chat.
Last edited by TuNa36 on Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby OreCreeper » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:34 am

TuNa36 wrote:First of all. I did take a break from TOS but this gamemode is what brought me back here, and I think I need to state what's wrong in this gamemode.

1. Classic TT is too Town-sided.
Without a TK tt or a Mayor TT , Mafia barely can win with numbers. In Coven TT they can win with numbers, with any kind of tt because coven has enough killpower. But for Mafia, I think another random mafia is needed.

2. Witch doesn't know who Mafia or TT is.
Witch not knowing the evils leads to some terrible endings for the Mafia like a Mafia member/TT gets controlled into a Veteran, or a Vigilante gets witched into shooting the TT and vice versa. This doesnt happen in Coven TT because all evils know each other. Spesifically for Classic TT witch needs to know their teammates imo.
Also. Witch win condition should work when it is an evil win, even while dead because sometimes Witch dies but Mafia wins sadly Witch ends up losing because of dying.

3. Vet meta.
Veteran meta is too overwhelming for the TT to win , basically if you refuse to visit Veteran you are automatically flagged as TT and if TT is a visiting role they dont have a chance to win. I personally don't have an idea how to cope with this at the moment, but if I have I will edit this.

Yeah I agree, another random mafia should replace the witch. The TT timer should also be removed and the TT is given a kill if all other mafia are dead. For the people complaining that this would make it too hard to win as solo TT, if the TT lets his entire mafia die off, then it should be harder for him to win, not easier. Besides, changing the witch to RM should increase mafia's chances of winning the normal way substantially. Mafia has one additional member that knows all other members at the start who can will while dead, and town also has a harder time figuring out mafia's setup, so no more "there was a clean so all escorts and transporters are confirmed".
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby hurrrr » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:04 am

I agree with these points. TT has become my favorite game mode and witch always screws it up for mafia. Either they control GF and kill a mafia or tt, they control Vig and shoot a mafia or tt, they control a mafia into vet, they find a mafia and whisper them making both a target for VFR and when one gets lynched the other gets lynched as well. It's just a mess.

The best strategy for a mafia win is to suicide and start the TT timer and lots of people will just suicide D1 as mafia to improve the odds the tt can win. But even with this strategy, the witch usually hangs out and stalls the timer making the TT lose.

I get that the witch makes it so TK doesn't claim early b/c it could lead to town deaths, but maybe filling that slot with a NE role like the old ranked would be better. Would definitely cause more chaos to have an exe or jester be in that role that couldn't destroy mafia N2 when witch gets TT killed ruining the whole game.
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Descender » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:05 am

am i the only one who thinks its pretty ok balance wise
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby CapWarrior2 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:57 pm

Descender wrote:am i the only one who thinks its pretty ok balance wise


I think it is alright, the timer is definently the most broken, and I would argue the only broken thing because that's where all the problems are. But playing wise it is fun, maybe not as fun when your the Mayor and get lynched every time...
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Descender » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:38 am

CapWarrior2 wrote:
Descender wrote:am i the only one who thinks its pretty ok balance wise


I think it is alright, the timer is definently the most broken, and I would argue the only broken thing because that's where all the problems are. But playing wise it is fun, maybe not as fun when your the Mayor and get lynched every time...

im pretty sure the timer was a temporary fix that they just never fixed
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby kyuss420 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:43 am

Descender wrote:
CapWarrior2 wrote:
Descender wrote:am i the only one who thinks its pretty ok balance wise


I think it is alright, the timer is definently the most broken, and I would argue the only broken thing because that's where all the problems are. But playing wise it is fun, maybe not as fun when your the Mayor and get lynched every time...

im pretty sure the timer was a temporary fix that they just never fixed


No, the timer was put in place to fix another meta, that just drew the game to 10/11+ nights every time the tt wasnt jailor, mayor or TK, and was pretty much an insta loss for maf if the TT was jailor, mayor or TK.

Which was worse with the old ret, as ret would revive a townie (usually TP), both would be confirmed, then they just lynch everyone except ret/revived player (who were protected by TPs over any other role). Basically jailor was the first townie lynched, then mayor, then TKs. This meta can still exist, all it takes is a doc/crus to heal someone from an attack early game, and you have 2 confirmed townies.... (If any TP ever dares to go off the jailor anymore....)
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Descender » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:47 am

kyuss420 wrote:
Descender wrote:
CapWarrior2 wrote:
Descender wrote:am i the only one who thinks its pretty ok balance wise


I think it is alright, the timer is definently the most broken, and I would argue the only broken thing because that's where all the problems are. But playing wise it is fun, maybe not as fun when your the Mayor and get lynched every time...

im pretty sure the timer was a temporary fix that they just never fixed


No, the timer was put in place to fix another meta, that just drew the game to 10/11+ nights every time the tt wasnt jailor, mayor or TK, and was pretty much an insta loss for maf if the TT was jailor, mayor or TK.

Which was worse with the old ret, as ret would revive a townie (usually TP), both would be confirmed, then they just lynch everyone except ret/revived player (who were protected by TPs over any other role). Basically jailor was the first townie lynched, then mayor, then TKs. This meta can still exist, all it takes is a doc/crus to heal someone from an attack early game, and you have 2 confirmed townies.... (If any TP ever dares to go off the jailor anymore....)

yeah but wasnt the fix going to be that TT could kill every 2nd night
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Yemac » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:25 pm

+ gaining maj in TT is hard. You need to kill 5 town to get to a 5v5 and before that it's likely a mafia will die
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Descender » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:34 pm

yes but being a town traitor is sorta broken so its balanced
not balanced in a fun way, but it is
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Yemac » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:42 pm

Descender wrote:yes but being a town traitor is sorta broken so its balanced
not balanced in a fun way, but it is


Only with strong TT's. The fact that the best strat is for mafia to suicide/leave and TT coutner to start is problematic
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Descender » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:45 pm

Yemac wrote:
Descender wrote:yes but being a town traitor is sorta broken so its balanced
not balanced in a fun way, but it is


Only with strong TT's. The fact that the best strat is for mafia to suicide/leave and TT coutner to start is problematic

i remember saying that when it was suggested
a bad TT can still win by timeout though
given the average skill of TT players being "what is scumreading" TTs can just kind of claim a free win most of the time
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby dolphina » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:57 pm

i like it but i also don’t like it because coven/mafia throws sometimes

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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Descender » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:21 pm

dolphina wrote:i like it but i also don’t like it because coven/mafia throws sometimes

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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby LordNemisis » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:53 pm

So Town Traitor has gotten a new meta, the "filter chat" meta, ask everyone to filter chat and tell everyone how many chat messages one of more mafia have, this can EASILY flush out TT. I think BMG has to fix this the best way possible! Filter out Night Chat, make it so that you can decide if night chat appears or not! Break the meta!
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:09 pm

I don't get it. Can't the TT simply not count the messages sent at night? They can't be that hard to spot. Also, why is this only used against TT? Can't it be used to catch mafia/coven/vamps too?
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I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby LordNemisis » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:31 am

Joacgroso wrote:I don't get it. Can't the TT simply not count the messages sent at night? They can't be that hard to spot. Also, why is this only used against TT? Can't it be used to catch mafia/coven/vamps too?


Sometimes it can be hard to see which were send at night, also in theory it could be used against any faction. I just stumbled upon it in TT for now. But it's a trash meta and being able to make filter not show night chat would make sure such cheap metas that ruin the game can't be used.
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:26 pm

The filter should be improved for sure. It's a shame it doesn't include whispers or votes. For now, I guess mafia can counter this meta by saying "night" at the beginning of the night phase and by posting their will at the beginning of each day.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby TuNa36 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:59 am

I have edited the post with few more issues and proposed fixes.
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Re: What I think about Town Traitor gamemode.

Postby Joacgroso » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:53 am

Sure, tabs seem like a good idea.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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