Neutral Wins

[alex1234321]

I just played an All Any game that ended with a Survivor winning and all other players dying at the end. I was Town and the game counted as a loss for me. Why is this a loss instead of a draw? Why does one Survivor staying alive change the outcome compared to everyone dying?

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Because only survivor won the game, the system message says "game has ended in a draw" because no faction won, however in this case a neutral won (same happens if witch is last alive, jest won and everyone else died, exe who won is last standing, game ended in a draw but GA target was alive)

So in resume: draw is only counted when NO ONE reaches their wincon, which wasnt the case in your situation (although system message will say "the game has ended in a draw")

[alex1234321]

Because only survivor won the game, the system message says "game has ended in a draw" because no faction won, however in this case a neutral won (same happens if witch is last alive, jest won and everyone else died, exe who won is last standing, game ended in a draw but GA target was alive)

So in resume: draw is only counted when NO ONE reaches their wincon, which wasnt the case in your situation (although system message will say "the game has ended in a draw")

I’m confused about why this situation counts differently from a game where everyone dies including the Survivor. Like if we decided to lynch the Survivor early on instead of nolynching and everything else is the same, can you really say that we played better and deserved a better outcome? I think all these situations should be a loss. If you’re SK and you’re lynched D2, do you deserve a better outcome because Town and Mafia eliminated each other in the game? I get why you might say it should be a draw in Town vs Mafia Ranked, but I think it would be easier to just make everything a loss.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Because only survivor won the game, the system message says "game has ended in a draw" because no faction won, however in this case a neutral won (same happens if witch is last alive, jest won and everyone else died, exe who won is last standing, game ended in a draw but GA target was alive)

So in resume: draw is only counted when NO ONE reaches their wincon, which wasnt the case in your situation (although system message will say "the game has ended in a draw")

I’m confused about why this situation counts differently from a game where everyone dies including the Survivor. Like if we decided to lynch the Survivor early on instead of nolynching and everything else is the same, can you really say that we played better and deserved a better outcome? I think all these situations should be a loss. If you’re SK and you’re lynched D2, do you deserve a better outcome because Town and Mafia eliminated each other in the game? I get why you might say it should be a draw in Town vs Mafia Ranked, but I think it would be easier to just make everything a loss.

...so you mean that the surv in that situation should have lost?

I didnt say my opinion in the other post, I just explained why it counted as a loss for you and not a draw

It is unfair for non-factional neutrals (NE, NB and pirate) that they get a loss if they achieved their wincon but everyone else died, so the "survivor wins", "jester wins" things are fine imo

[alex1234321]

Because only survivor won the game, the system message says "game has ended in a draw" because no faction won, however in this case a neutral won (same happens if witch is last alive, jest won and everyone else died, exe who won is last standing, game ended in a draw but GA target was alive)

So in resume: draw is only counted when NO ONE reaches their wincon, which wasnt the case in your situation (although system message will say "the game has ended in a draw")

I’m confused about why this situation counts differently from a game where everyone dies including the Survivor. Like if we decided to lynch the Survivor early on instead of nolynching and everything else is the same, can you really say that we played better and deserved a better outcome? I think all these situations should be a loss. If you’re SK and you’re lynched D2, do you deserve a better outcome because Town and Mafia eliminated each other in the game? I get why you might say it should be a draw in Town vs Mafia Ranked, but I think it would be easier to just make everything a loss.

...so you mean that the surv in that situation should have lost?

I didnt say my opinion in the other post, I just explained why it counted as a loss for you and not a draw

It is unfair for non-factional neutrals (NE, NB and pirate) that they get a loss if they achieved their wincon but everyone else died, so the "survivor wins", "jester wins" things are fine imo

No, I'm saying the factions (Town/Mafia/NK/Vamps) should be given a loss in that situation, which they currently are. But in situations where everyone is dead and no Jester/Exe wins, I think everyone should lose instead of draw. But I'm not sure whether that would work in Ranked, where there are fewer factions. Either way, I agree that the NB/NE roles should win as long as they accomplish their wincon regardless of whether any factions survive.

[kyuss420]

If theres no winners... its a draw. If all factions are dead, everyone has lost, therefore no one has won, therefore its a draw.

If a nuetral met their win con, then someone has won, therefore everyone else has lost, so while the factions drew, its counted as a loss because there was a winner in the match.

The problem is, if they changed it to your suggestion, Then everyone would win, instead of draw, when 2 factions remained alive at the end of the game, because in that situation no one has lost, both factions have won, therefore its a draw. eg. trans and doc vs 2 maf where trans is switching the doc with a maf every night, or 2 docs and 2 maf. No one can lose in that situation, so they would both be given a win?

Either way, if everyone has lost or if everyone has won its counted as a draw, unless a nuetral has met their win cons and actually won.

[CapWarrior2]

I just played an All Any game that ended with a Survivor winning and all other players dying at the end. I was Town and the game counted as a loss for me. Why is this a loss instead of a draw? Why does one Survivor staying alive change the outcome compared to everyone dying?

Because as surv has a wincon were they can realistically win by themselves, it happens. No dead factions win because well, they didnt survive till the end of that game when their wincons were met. Same how when everyone dies and a jester was lynched, jester wins, as Jester has met their wincon, which in this case isn't to survive for the rest of the game.

Why does one Survivor staying alive change the outcome compared to everyone dying?

Why does one Serial Killer staying alive change the outcome compared to everyone dying? Because it's wincons are with itself and witch. Survs wincons are with every role that can win by its faction (Basically any role in the wincon list).