Why Every Role In The Base Game Is Bad

[dolphina]

did you mean: all the gamethrowers

[Brilliand]

did you mean: all the gamethrowers

Which post is this directed at?

[deadlyblack]

did you mean: all the gamethrowers

Which post is this directed at?

copied my potato post ;(

[dolphina]

did you mean: all the gamethrowers

Which post is this directed at?

Whichever post you wish it to be

[Brilliand]

did you mean: all the gamethrowers

Which post is this directed at?

Whichever post you wish it to be

I searched the thread for the phrase "all the" and couldn't find any place where "gamethrowers" would make sense as the next word.

[Descender]

i cant wait until the sequel for coven roles

[Cookazoo2]

i cant wait until the sequel for coven roles

Oh boy do I have some things to say about certain roles.

[flairric66]

Your reasoning for Veteran contradicts your overall point, in my opinion.

[dolphina]

Your reasoning for Veteran contradicts your overall point, in my opinion.

“in my opinion”

You’ve damned us all

[flairric66]

Okay. How so?

[Brilliand]

Okay. How so?

because dolphina is the god of chaos

no I don't understand either.

[CapWarrior2]

Summary:
Sheriff- Yes it's dumb it can only counter some evil roles and framer doesn't do it's job as effectively as it needs against ti .
Inv- Just needs a new list
LO- Doesnt nessecarily mean it confirms evils but highly likely does
SPY- REMOVE OR NERF HARD
Doctor- Nothing wrong with doctor, needs personal prove c t and meant to stop attacks
Bodyguard- Again, nothing wrong with bodyguard, does a 1 for 1, which is not in mafia favour
Vigi- Nothing wrong, suicide is balanced and justified
Vet- Nothing wrong, doesnt need to suicide, it's downside is killing townies unintentionally
Jailor- Jailor needs a ner, but overral so far you have complained about all of Tk intersctionnwith town, even though the current methods are alot better with justification and reasoning
VH-.meant to be a hard counter to vamps, not much you can do about that, the gunning the end is for a reward for hunting the vampires as well as giving u something to do
Town Support: Only problem is Mayor unable to be healed by doc once revealed. Otherwise apart from trans and med I have no problems. Ttrans and Med always gonna be awkward and have problems.
GF- is the leader, should have detection immune, has experience of lying, it's defence yes makes it able to ignore sk, vigi, most coven roles (mainly with necrom), crus, vamp but really when u think about it, that isn't that bad, that's only a small number of killing roles inn the game it survives, and Coven is.not meant for kills, meant for utility in a way it has the ability to solo. Mafia meant to be working together to make other people take the blame or to take pressure off themselves.
Mafioso- well this is an essential role to ranked, last preseason showed everyone why.
All MK roles- Wdym remove town players for no reason?
This helps them gain majority as well as strategically picking of people who would prove to be a threat to your cause. The ability for half of mafia to kill and the other half to deceive is what is great about maf games compared to coven games.
Ambusher- It isn't the fact that it can kill at all that causes it to be a bad role, it's the fact that it's RNG dependant and has to be balanced so it can't just make it a 2 kpn.
Consort- Literally nothing bad about consort, literally the best RM member with escort and consort they can't rb each other due to a thing called priority, it's a very hard way to work around this, also an unessecary one.
Bmer- Bmer is a very powerful role, it listens to whispers because it is supposed to show nothing can be kept secret, and anything you say could be your own demise. It also helps show to everyone that alot of the time it is better to share then to keep secrets with 2 people, obviously not always the case but most times it is. It's ability to silence someone from the game is all about communication, limiting someone's ability to share info they gathered.
Consigliere- Theirs nothing wrong with consig if anything it needs a buff due to how ineffective it is apart from all any. In ranked it's easily below framer, atleast framer can slow down inv and sheriff for a night if they get lucky.
Framer- My problem with framer is that it only fooled sheriff and invs. If it was to fool more Ti like spy, LO, Tracker, Psychic then I would be happy. (Have buffs check them out in signature (Plug))
Forger- Forger needs another counter apart from medium (scrap that spy is another counter), full stop. Forger is too op, the ability to fool the whole town and make them get mislynches and executes because of a forged role is really good.
Disguiser- Disguiser is more of a burden when a spy exists in the game, when it doesnt it is definently a godsend, it's just predicting what the TI is gonna check.
Janitor- Is honestly fine, it's a worse forger that is balanced, just limits towns info.
Hypnotist- I take back what I said about consig, this is the worst maf role. (Or atleast 2nd worst) So what it can claim anything? Literally if their is a spy it's gg. The only thing hypno had done is made it so trans claims that trans themselves r gonna be super sus.
Serial Killer- Was great in ranked cuz it was a kpn. I see why they removed NKs but Serial Killer, in all any I would say just a GF that is Rb immune, (With the ability to have an extra kpn) and solo. Definently needs some social deduction skills to convince others to hang Arsos and WW Mid game.
Arsonist is completely balanced imo, I have see complaints in all any about their being too many arsos so game ends n4 but Imo arso as a individual, is balanced.
Werewolf- It was balanced when ur kills were restricted because only 1 of 2 nights you could be attacked all game, now it has changed, but the by that time, most people are dead so ur basically gonna get single kills.
Jester- Please take back EVERYTHING you just said. Jester is my love and always will be. It is single handedly the most beneficial role to the game. It's ability to make hangs untrustworthy is what makes this game the game it is, especially ranked. This creates fear in lynches and adds more uses in night time killing. It also causes people to want to guilty ad they want to fit in. Whoever the jester wants to kill, he can without fail (apart from pest) because they did fall for his trick, and is the main reason why the notes above exist, to create instead of dying then losing. Jester is also easily faked, and their are so many possibilities of just messing around to get yourself lynched, which makes everyone untrustworthy, for all you know you could be a jester!
Executioner- This role makes uncertainty in trusting whether people are telling the truth or not when they are accusing someone based on evidence. Basically the jester but has a target to play around with. All evils should have basic defence, that isn't a bad thing. Especially for roles like this, that can cause a mislynch for evils which were most likely the one who attacked them. And when they win thwy become a better survivor. They also become the best role when their target dies.
Witch- Imo witch is the best classic role. It is able to use someone's abilities against their own purpose for the witches pleasure, and if you were to witch a mafia and accidently kill a member, u politely apologise and ask for the other Mafia's numbers. Witch is definently the strongest evil here. Also you defiently can report people for throwing mafia as witch.
Amnesiac- Wdym a downside is to turn into any dead role, even if it is unique, and to be able to side with anyone? The point of amne is to give a broad opportunity of being a variety of roles, and depending on how the game is going, you can jump in and help.
Survivor- Yes biggest problem is everything about it apart from.the fact it can win with any role.
Vampire- This can never be balanced or fair. Because of conversion ofc.

Your solutions was to remove half of the roles or rework them? Most of them are fine or need a buff, apart from jailor,trans,sheriff,inv,framer,consig who imo all need buffs/nerfs/reworks.

[OreCreeper]

Imo I'd just remove sheriff if not for the fact that the role is tied to like every mafia-based game ever. Sheriff SUCKS. Getting caught by sheriff leaves you with no way out since framer is useless, the role is boring if you don't fake-claim, and the detection immune attribute is retarded because it means you either are completely immune to getting caught or completely vulnerable.

[Descender]

i cant wait until the sequel for coven roles

Oh boy do I have some things to say about certain roles.

psychic moment

[Joacgroso]

The problem with sheriffs is that they are just worse trackers, in pretty much every aspect. I don't think they should be removed, though, since they are an easy fake claim that can help introduce new people to the game.
They could also be great if BMG ever introduced citizens and goons as custom exclusive role, although that's never going to happen.

Jester- Please take back EVERYTHING you just said. Jester is my love and always will be. It is single handedly the most beneficial role to the game. It's ability to make hangs untrustworthy is what makes this game the game it is, especially ranked. This creates fear in lynches and adds more uses in night time killing. It also causes people to want to guilty ad they want to fit in. Whoever the jester wants to kill, he can without fail (apart from pest) because they did fall for his trick, and is the main reason why the notes above exist, to create instead of dying then losing. Jester is also easily faked, and their are so many possibilities of just messing around to get yourself lynched, which makes everyone untrustworthy, for all you know you could be a jester!

Wow, you put a lot of effort for a post that wasn't serious (mostly).
Although I love jesters, I personally don't think they are such a good adition for competitive gamemodes. They encourage players to be lazy and just act like an obvious evils instead of trying to blend in with the town. I don't think town should be punished for hanging suspicious people. Though I must admit the role is very fun.
The same goes for executioners. Ideally, people should already distrust accusers because they could be mafia trying to push a misslynch. But again, the role is fun.

[Descender]

jester as a role just isnt very functional

[dolphina]

Okay. How so?

You’ve ignited the flames of the ToS community

And all my loyal anarchy followers

[Descender]

Okay. How so?

You’ve ignited the flames of the ToS community

And all my loyal anarchy followers

silence shouty one

[dolphina]

Okay. How so?

You’ve ignited the flames of the ToS community

And all my loyal anarchy followers

silence shouty one

Aha but i pull out the mightiest of cards
“No u”

[Descender]

Okay. How so?

You’ve ignited the flames of the ToS community

And all my loyal anarchy followers

silence shouty one

Aha but i pull out the mightiest of cards
“No u”

stop derailing please :sparkles:

[dolphina]

Okay. How so?

You’ve ignited the flames of the ToS community

And all my loyal anarchy followers

silence shouty one

Aha but i pull out the mightiest of cards
“No u”

stop derailing please :sparkles:

Shut the fuck up you’re the master derailer

[Descender]

Okay. How so?

You’ve ignited the flames of the ToS community

And all my loyal anarchy followers

silence shouty one

Aha but i pull out the mightiest of cards
“No u”

stop derailing please :sparkles:

Shut the fuck up you’re the master derailer

thats just mean
but i guess its also a compliment?
so thank fuck you?

[dolphina]

Okay. How so?

You’ve ignited the flames of the ToS community

And all my loyal anarchy followers

silence shouty one

Aha but i pull out the mightiest of cards
“No u”

stop derailing please :sparkles:

Shut the fuck up you’re the master derailer

thats just mean
but i guess its also a compliment?
so thank fuck you?

*confusion*

[Descender]

Okay. How so?

You’ve ignited the flames of the ToS community

And all my loyal anarchy followers

silence shouty one

Aha but i pull out the mightiest of cards
“No u”

stop derailing please :sparkles:

Shut the fuck up you’re the master derailer

thats just mean
but i guess its also a compliment?
so thank fuck you?

*confusion*

thank you + fuck you obv

[deadlyblack]

To re-rail this post :') (stop being childish)

Mafia Killers In General
- Can remove members of the Town from the game for no reason
- Doesn't require consensus or deception -- you just do the deed and it doesn't matter
- Can confirm evils with defense
- Has a death note that can sell out an immune player

Comment: That's the point of evil roles; to kill and remove a player from existence.

Ambusher
- Gives away their name for the purpose of a bonus kill, like who's that bad at running away
- Can kill someone at random
- Can kill at all

Comment: I like Ambusher, but needs something. Someone recommended that if there's multiple people who visit a target, ambusher shouldn't attack at all--and I agree.

Consort
- Can prevent someone from doing their job
- Nerfs the almighty Jailor, because apparently the Town is so bad they have to clutch on a prison guard who's illegally detaining people
- Immune from their own ability

Comment: Similar to escort *duh* but I think he's a good deception/support role, a good town claim and helps mafia do their job

Blackmailer
- Can prevent someone from speaking
- Doesn't prevent someone from taunting/spamming votes or communicating in other ways
- Can listen to private whispers, like how is that balanced

Comment: Depends on the player, but this role can be very useful. Stop someone from speaking? Nice. I like his unique passive.

Consigliere
- Can completely call cap on someone's role
- Can figure out others' roles without them talking
- Requires no effort or skill to play in a "game about skill"

Comment: Similarly to consort, a good addition to mafia, helps them find highpriority targets etc. Good role to deceive town with as investigator, and lead town to lynch other evils from other factions.