Witch-Mafia relationship

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Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby HitokiriSha » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:06 am

It honestly sucks that there are no consequences for mafia lynching witch when they are winning because they though it would be funny.
And since there is no NK the witch has no choice but to help mafia get to majority before getting lynched anyway.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby SpiritWolfLord » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:20 am

Apparently it counts as harassment. I didn't know that either. Spread the word.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby Flatliner » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:36 am

Yeah add on top of that townies that are guaranteed to lose seeking out and killing witch just so they can't win with mafia - it's a pretty rough role that gets a lot of leavers now.

Seems like they should just always win with mafia, if there's no alternative. Like they're just mafia who doesn't know their teammates.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby dolphina » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:40 pm

Yea honestly fuck people who hang the witch for fun
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby WildCard65 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:16 pm

dolphina wrote:Yea honestly fuck people who hang the witch for fun


As a previous reply has mentioned, this is reportable as harassment, but for an actual guilty verdict to be handed down, admission of guilt is required.

Here's an official quote from Flavorable & LevinSnakeRise, both of whom are Moderators:
LevinSnakesRise wrote:
Flavorable wrote:Hanging a witch solely for the lols in Ranked is the same as an Exe target leaving purposely before the Exe can hang them is considered harassment and can be reported as such.

In any case, it was agreed upon by staff this would be tantamount to EXE's target leaving to spite them, however admission (as in most cases) is required.

Source: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=113378#p3550981

Note: I have snipped some parts of the quote above as it's irrelevant to this thread.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby deadlyblack » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:03 pm

Should just close posts like these and let people know that lynching witch for no reason is considered harassment.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby Descender » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:10 pm

deadlyblack wrote:Should just close posts like these and let people know that lynching witch for no reason is considered harassment.

tbf, it does make the mafia seem towny
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby dolphina » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:54 pm

Yes close this and just make like an announcement or smth
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby Descender » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:37 pm

dolphina wrote:Yes close this and just make like an announcement or smth

i doubt theyll make an announcement to remind people that rules exist
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby sodomyandlust » Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:41 pm

The coolest part about it too is when you only get +3 when you win as witch in ranked.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby Yemac » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:30 am

Honestly witch should win as mafia even when dead. Every witch game I get, I help mafia the best I can, but then jailor executes me because they're salty. Why does mafia get to die and still win, but witch needs to live to the end?

Especially with how easy it is to find the witch in Ranked and the new rolelist. Why can't witch win if mafia wins even if witch dies? That opens up play to witches sacrificing themselves and witching jailor instead of having to stay quiet and pray they don't get killed. No jailor just stops executing you when you tell them you're witch and that it's 5v2 and that jailor loses anyways. They just execute you out of spite.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby OreCreeper » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:58 am

Yemac wrote:Honestly witch should win as mafia even when dead. Every witch game I get, I help mafia the best I can, but then jailor executes me because they're salty. Why does mafia get to die and still win, but witch needs to live to the end?

Especially with how easy it is to find the witch in Ranked and the new rolelist. Why can't witch win if mafia wins even if witch dies? That opens up play to witches sacrificing themselves and witching jailor instead of having to stay quiet and pray they don't get killed. No jailor just stops executing you when you tell them you're witch and that it's 5v2 and that jailor loses anyways. They just execute you out of spite.

Why would you tell the jailor you're witch lol...

Also, the reason why witch doesn't win with mafia is because witch only achieved part of their goal, but you need to achieve your full goal to win. It's like how an executioner still loses if his target is lynched after he dies, he achieved part of his win condition, but he needed to live to see his target lynched, and he failed the "live" part.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby Yemac » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:01 am

I'm not telling the Jailor I'm witch, but it can be figured out easily who it is.

I get the idea behind witch, but that means the win condition shouldn't be changed
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby OreCreeper » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:57 pm

Yemac wrote:I'm not telling the Jailor I'm witch, but it can be figured out easily who it is.

I get the idea behind witch, but that means the win condition shouldn't be changed

If you get majority you should push jailor immediately. A jailor with executes should have priority over all the other roles.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby kyuss420 » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:15 am

OreCreeper wrote:
Yemac wrote:I'm not telling the Jailor I'm witch, but it can be figured out easily who it is.

I get the idea behind witch, but that means the win condition shouldn't be changed

If you get majority you should push jailor immediately. A jailor with executes should have priority over all the other roles.


Ive said it 100 times before, and im sure ill say it 1000 times again. 85% of the player base cant count to 4, let alone 5 or 6. So they actually have no idea at all when majority has been reached.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby OreCreeper » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:11 am

kyuss420 wrote:
OreCreeper wrote:
Yemac wrote:I'm not telling the Jailor I'm witch, but it can be figured out easily who it is.

I get the idea behind witch, but that means the win condition shouldn't be changed

If you get majority you should push jailor immediately. A jailor with executes should have priority over all the other roles.


Ive said it 100 times before, and im sure ill say it 1000 times again. 85% of the player base cant count to 4, let alone 5 or 6. So they actually have no idea at all when majority has been reached.

Then that's a problem with the players, not the role.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby Yemac » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:35 am

IF you get majority, but if it's 6v6 (like in most cases where evils say: "EVILS DONT VOTE") and you don't vote mafia up with town, you can get executed).

And even if it's a problem with the playerbase, why should the player getting witch suffer because of this? Sometimes there is a Mayor that makes it hard to vote up the jailor. And mafia cannot kill jailor at night as there is often TP, Transporter, or any number of roles that can save the jailor.

Witch gets really nerfed by not being able to win while dead. Witch is a strong role, but you can never do ballsy plays or making yourself known too much without dying. It doesn't help that witch can die easily to veteran, so if you want to clutch a game where a vigilante or veteran is present, you are kinda forced to take that risk. I've had it multiple times where there was a TK left, and if they were vig and got a shot off, you would lose, but if they were vet, you would win. You are kinda forced to take the 50/50 at that point. If witch can die, then you can just witch them and even if they're vet, mafia would win AND YOU would win.

To counter balance witch being able to win while dead, they should lose their 1 protection. The protection doesn't do anything against jailor or vet. Only against mafia and vigilante. And when mafia wants to kill you, they still can. Plus if you're hit and there is a Spy, you're basically dead either way. Good players can try lying and get away with it, but your averga player will make a bad claim and lose.

Shouldn't we make the roles accessible and easy to play for everyone? It's already "easy". And say witch dies n1, then you can still try and trick the medium if there is one. And if witch dies, it does help town. So yes, you're helping witch making them die n1, but them losing their protection makes sure that the balancing works out
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby OreCreeper » Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:38 am

Yemac wrote:IF you get majority, but if it's 6v6 (like in most cases where evils say: "EVILS DONT VOTE") and you don't vote mafia up with town, you can get executed).

And even if it's a problem with the playerbase, why should the player getting witch suffer because of this? Sometimes there is a Mayor that makes it hard to vote up the jailor. And mafia cannot kill jailor at night as there is often TP, Transporter, or any number of roles that can save the jailor.

Witch gets really nerfed by not being able to win while dead. Witch is a strong role, but you can never do ballsy plays or making yourself known too much without dying. It doesn't help that witch can die easily to veteran, so if you want to clutch a game where a vigilante or veteran is present, you are kinda forced to take that risk. I've had it multiple times where there was a TK left, and if they were vig and got a shot off, you would lose, but if they were vet, you would win. You are kinda forced to take the 50/50 at that point. If witch can die, then you can just witch them and even if they're vet, mafia would win AND YOU would win.

To counter balance witch being able to win while dead, they should lose their 1 protection. The protection doesn't do anything against jailor or vet. Only against mafia and vigilante. And when mafia wants to kill you, they still can. Plus if you're hit and there is a Spy, you're basically dead either way. Good players can try lying and get away with it, but your averga player will make a bad claim and lose.

Shouldn't we make the roles accessible and easy to play for everyone? It's already "easy". And say witch dies n1, then you can still try and trick the medium if there is one. And if witch dies, it does help town. So yes, you're helping witch making them die n1, but them losing their protection makes sure that the balancing works out

Judging by your last line, you want witch to be dumbed down to being easy to win as by bad players? No, roles are not accessible to everyone (coven) and they certainly shouldn't be easy to win as because otherwise skill would be meaningless. I posted a guide on how to win as witch in ranked. If it's a case where a vig shooting can lose evils the game, if you die to vet, evils would have their chances diminished regardless. If it is 6v6, a vig shoot would do little more than stop evils from getting true majority, because assuming maf also kills, it will be 5v5 next, and 4v4, and eventually the vig will either be killed or run out of bullets. If it is a 6v5 at night, a vig shot can keep town majority, but that means you know the TK claim is likely vig (if they are not another evil fake claiming), and in that case if you run into vet, evils would still lose majority.

And losing the protection completely is just dumb. Maybe it shouldn't work against vigi, but it's dumb that mafia can just randomly attack witch n1 and witch will die. And then the witch has to sit out for the rest of the game and depend on mafia to carry them. Either way it doesn't seem great to me.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby Emily372 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:14 am

Stop being ELO-greedy. You could all get reported for harassing the Witch that likely helped you win.
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I wonder how the Witch-Neutral Killing Relationship is turning out on Custom and All Any.
Serial Killer has killed the TT Jailor... and now the Town has congratulated that serial killer for no reason.
That TT Jailor has a will covered in blood, making it unreadable...
Since there is no medium, the town lost to the SK.
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Re: Witch-Mafia relationship

Postby dbpeanut » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:44 am

I can answer that question. Normally Witch gets upped first. But if they do somehow last to the end, generally witches pick whoever has more people to win, IE-Vamps or Mafia unless they previously screwed said Witch over.
A lot of people don't understand that Witch is basically a support role that NEEDS to be supplemented by other evils. You can't just say "Witch is bad" unless Witch is actively throwing to get a town win.
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