Fix the trial system

[OralShreks]

As it stands, the trial system is absolutely ridiculous. I've found another user today that puts all of the mafia in their will and leaves the game whenever they get a maf role. They've been doing this for a long time. They've been reported for it 41 times. Only two of those have resulted in a ban, despite the fact that he's done the exact same thing in all of the other reports.

Why is the system so incredibly broken? I've noticed that half of the users I report don't even get an actual report placed into the trial system at all.

I'm using this user as an example, but this sort of behavior is allowed to happen time and time again, because despite the fact that the user has clearly broken the rules, whoever handles their report clearly doesn't care enough to actually do anything about it.


Is there anything that can be done about this?

[Superalex11]

Why is the system so incredibly broken?

Because it was poorly designed and nobody wants to take the responsibility or the time to fix it. Those heading it also seem to believes there aren't really any problems with it, despite the many pressures like this post, as well as my own over the past 6 months.

I've noticed that half of the users I report don't even get an actual report placed into the trial system at all.

This is most likely because all report types except HS/H, when generated by players in-game, require at least 2 people to file the report.

Is there anything that can be done about this?

The only thing to be done is to keep the pressure. I believe that the biggest obstacle to the Trial System's improvement is the stubbornness of the people in charge of it, as I said above. While this categorization technically includes the devs, they're distinct in a way that allows the people below them to have enough control to make a significant difference on their own, yet they refuse. So the way I see it, if we want the Trial System to improve, either the people like TP/Naru need to get their act together, or the devs themselves need to step in and force the fixes themselves. Without public pressure, neither will happen.

[Flavorable]

I've noticed that half of the users I report don't even get an actual report placed into the trial system at all.

This is most likely because all report types except HS/H, when generated by players in-game, require at least 2 people to file the report.

HS/H also needs two reports to get created.

[kyuss420]

As it stands, the trial system is absolutely ridiculous. I've found another user today that puts all of the mafia in their will and leaves the game whenever they get a maf role. They've been doing this for a long time. They've been reported for it 41 times. Only two of those have resulted in a ban, despite the fact that he's done the exact same thing in all of the other reports.

Why is the system so incredibly broken? I've noticed that half of the users I report don't even get an actual report placed into the trial system at all.

I'm using this user as an example, but this sort of behavior is allowed to happen time and time again, because despite the fact that the user has clearly broken the rules, whoever handles their report clearly doesn't care enough to actually do anything about it.


Is there anything that can be done about this?

Every report needs 12? votes on it to go to a judge, 12 votes... not 12 guilties (i could be wrong, it may be 9 or even less) Problem being jurors can skip gamethrowing (or any category of) reports, if they choose.

When 90% of the gamethrow reports are either spite reports or ''player made a dumb move'' report, then jurors quickly get bored with looking at them, and dont bother with them, so when a serial gamethrower, like the guy you mentioned, comes along, it makes it very hard for the report to get the required amount of votes on it, to go to the judges pile, because theres not enough jurors looking at them, because theyre sick of reading through salt, like ''I lost my game because this guy played wrong'' ''he voted me up after I found mafia'' ''he roleblocked me 3 times, i was confirmed (by nobody) investigator'' etc.

So what can be done? If players werent so fast to report, over the stupidest crap, to start with, jurors probably wouldnt think spending an hour reading through G/T reports, and finding maybe 1 that actually breaks the rules, is wasted time. Its a report button, not a ''I got annoyed with how the game went'' button

[orangeandblack5]

Would be helpful to keep track of reports placed by a user and send them a notification if they appear to be using it too much for things that don't get guilty'd

Could even escalate to punishing them if they keep placing reports where the reported user is found innocent

[Soulshade55r]

Would be helpful to keep track of reports placed by a user and send them a notification if they appear to be using it too much for things that don't get guilty'd

Could even escalate to punishing them if they keep placing reports where the reported user is found innocent

Scaring users to not report makes things way worse imo

[orangeandblack5]

If you set the bar relatively high, and be sure to notify people without punishment at first (if they're genuine a message saying "Hey, we noticed you've been reporting a lot of people that didn't break the rules. Quick reminder that the following things are not reportable: [insert short list of common misreports]" should be enough), then I don't think it would be an issue (and I'm pretty sure other games have done this without issue).

[kyuss420]

Yep, its more of a player issue, than a ''trial system'' issue. Its easy to click the report button, even if you have no comprehension of the rules...

''he voted in a 4v4 when none of his faction did''. Yes he was a dumb one, wasnt he? Can you show me where being dumb is illegal in the rules? Can you show me where it says ''making a play that loses the game will result in suspension''?

I mean, I had a game where it was 4 maf vs known arso and a sheriff, and my 3 teammates decided the sheriff was the best lynch, resulting in 3 burnt maf the next day.... idiots? yes. Gamethrowers? no

Spending 5-15 minutes reading through an annoying game, just to inno someone, because a dead guy was salty, is wasted time the jurors could of spent reading through an actual legit report. (and spending 45 minutes reading through 3 or 4 of them, is enough to make em skip G/T reports altogether)

[JakeTheSnake5963]

In a somewhat unrelated point, I have also found that many times players that leave the game D1 or N1 who are reported for leaving will be deemed innocent by this system whether I vote guilty or not. This may not be a very fair statement as I have only voted on 20ish reports so far, but for the few that I have seen where players are reported for leaving and I voted guilty my judgement was 'incorrect' as they were eventually deemed innocent (even though they left PRIOR to D1 after rolling CL for example). My theory is that rather than just skipping it, some people just vote innocent on all reports because of the fact that most reports tend to be false in the first place. I don't know how accurate this theory may be or if my experience is not a very common occurrence (as I am fairly new to the system), but these are my initial thoughts nonetheless.

[MysticMismagius]

In a somewhat unrelated point, I have also found that many times players that leave the game D1 or N1 who are reported for leaving will be deemed innocent by this system whether I vote guilty or not. This may not be a very fair statement as I have only voted on 20ish reports so far, but for the few that I have seen where players are reported for leaving and I voted guilty my judgement was 'incorrect' as they were eventually deemed innocent (even though they left PRIOR to D1 after rolling CL for example). My theory is that rather than just skipping it, some people just vote innocent on all reports because of the fact that most reports tend to be false in the first place. I don't know how accurate this theory may be or if my experience is not a very common occurrence (as I am fairly new to the system), but these are my initial thoughts nonetheless.

AFAIK the rule is that you don't guilty someone for leaving unless they admit to doing so intentionally (Occasionally judges will guilty someone who has many open leaving reports, but this is not common and only happens on judge+ level, not juror level)
So that's why that's happening

EDIT:

If you set the bar relatively high, and be sure to notify people without punishment at first (if they're genuine a message saying "Hey, we noticed you've been reporting a lot of people that didn't break the rules. Quick reminder that the following things are not reportable: [insert short list of common misreports]" should be enough), then I don't think it would be an issue (and I'm pretty sure other games have done this without issue).

There's still a problem with this. There are some report categories that are dupe-only, like Leaving and Multi-accounting. If someone reports for these offenses, the original report will always be inno, so the reporter will trip this flag even though they did nothing wrong.

[kyuss420]

In a somewhat unrelated point, I have also found that many times players that leave the game D1 or N1 who are reported for leaving will be deemed innocent by this system whether I vote guilty or not. This may not be a very fair statement as I have only voted on 20ish reports so far, but for the few that I have seen where players are reported for leaving and I voted guilty my judgement was 'incorrect' as they were eventually deemed innocent (even though they left PRIOR to D1 after rolling CL for example). My theory is that rather than just skipping it, some people just vote innocent on all reports because of the fact that most reports tend to be false in the first place. I don't know how accurate this theory may be or if my experience is not a very common occurrence (as I am fairly new to the system), but these are my initial thoughts nonetheless.

There was a time when all leaving reports were insta guiltied, but as stated above, since the move to pay2play, they should only be guiltied if they admit to it, either in chat or in will. Insta guiltying leaving reports will drop your trial rating if they are judged innocent (especially if they left before day 1)

[JakeTheSnake5963]

There was a time when all leaving reports were insta guiltied, but as stated above, since the move to pay2play, they should only be guiltied if they admit to it, either in chat or in will. Insta guiltying leaving reports will drop your trial rating if they are judged innocent (especially if they left before day 1)

Honestly that's good to know. I do have a personal thing against leavers though as everyone already knows it is aggravating for evils just to leave immediately (especially in ranked).