Is Witch required to help evil when they die?

[wozearly]

I don't see it as a bad witch play. If that's the way I want to play, and it's not throwing, why not? If I want to use the info to threaten the evils like the example below, it's my prerogative. If I want the game to end quicker and I have the ability to do so so I can join a new game, where does it say I can't. I also don't always have to say the truth. I could put 1 or 2 evils in my will then put a town in the mix to make them lynch one of their own. You all call it bad witch play, but you really don't have the right to say it since you're not me playing that role.

Dude, if you want to go out there and try to be the most useless Witch player in Town of Salem, you go right ahead. Don't let me stand in the way of your dreams.

[Kyosji]

I don't see it as a bad witch play. If that's the way I want to play, and it's not throwing, why not? If I want to use the info to threaten the evils like the example below, it's my prerogative. If I want the game to end quicker and I have the ability to do so so I can join a new game, where does it say I can't. I also don't always have to say the truth. I could put 1 or 2 evils in my will then put a town in the mix to make them lynch one of their own. You all call it bad witch play, but you really don't have the right to say it since you're not me playing that role.

Dude, if you want to go out there and try to be the most useless Witch player in Town of Salem, you go right ahead. Don't let me stand in the way of your dreams.

Explain exactly how it's useless?

[wozearly]

I don't see it as a bad witch play. If that's the way I want to play, and it's not throwing, why not? If I want to use the info to threaten the evils like the example below, it's my prerogative. If I want the game to end quicker and I have the ability to do so so I can join a new game, where does it say I can't. I also don't always have to say the truth. I could put 1 or 2 evils in my will then put a town in the mix to make them lynch one of their own. You all call it bad witch play, but you really don't have the right to say it since you're not me playing that role.

Dude, if you want to go out there and try to be the most useless Witch player in Town of Salem, you go right ahead. Don't let me stand in the way of your dreams.

Explain exactly how it's useless?

I did, in the post you responded to complaining that I called it a bad play.

I specifically covered threatening evils, and ending the game quicker straight after the point where I said "these are demonstrably examples of incredibly poor Witch plays". And to be honest, if you're seriously asking me to explain to you why "HA HA HA ITS TECHNICALLY NOT GAMETHROWING WHEN I RUIN THE GAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE SO I GET A NEW GAME FASTER AND DON'T GET PUNISHED OMEGALOLOL" is being a dickhead, then just grow up mate.

Meanwhile, you are welcome to enlighten us all with how getting 2 evils killed for 1 possible town mislynch is a pro play.


In seriousness, I have never claimed any right to tell you how to play. If you think my reasoning for why your examples are objectively bad plays is wrong, I would be happy to discuss it*.

Similarly, if you feel that the entire concept of witch etiquette is flawed then all I ask is that you explain, from the perspective of the Mafia/NK, why you would be happy for the Witch to do [whatever breach it is you're using as an example] or why it was necessary for the Witch to do it.



*Except for arguments based on your allies or opponents gamethrowing or engaging in borderline gamethrowing through hopelessly poor judgement, because life's too short and I've already agreed these are grey areas where retribution is hypothetically justified.

[kyuss420]

I don't see it as a bad witch play. If that's the way I want to play, and it's not throwing, why not? If I want to use the info to threaten the evils like the example below, it's my prerogative. If I want the game to end quicker and I have the ability to do so so I can join a new game, where does it say I can't. I also don't always have to say the truth. I could put 1 or 2 evils in my will then put a town in the mix to make them lynch one of their own. You all call it bad witch play, but you really don't have the right to say it since you're not me playing that role.

didnt say it was bad witch play, I said it was a snitchy dick move. Which it is... https://imgur.com/6QyXewh

[kyuss420]

can someone do that meme?? get the 6ix9ine template and write on it ''Yea Im witch. 7 is the WW and 4 and 12 are Maf!''

Hmm...sorry, sounds too much like actual work.

Oh, wait a second... https://imgur.com/6QyXewh

lol thank you!

[dolphina]

If you want to end the game, leave. You'll probably lose around the same amount of elo in ranked, and in anything else, it doesn't matter.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

You are not in a faction. Witch is a NEUTRAL role, you can do what the fuck ever you like after you die

[kyuss420]

You are not in a faction. Witch is a NEUTRAL role, you can do what the fuck ever you like after you die

except they arent talking about ''after they die'', they are talking about when they are alive and on trial

[FrenchyTheSphee]

You are not in a faction. Witch is a NEUTRAL role, you can do what the fuck ever you like after you die

except they arent talking about ''after they die'', they are talking about when they are alive and on trial

Can be used as a strategy where you reveal mafia which is a higher priority list or Nk to save yourself one night

Or you can out Mafia and sound with Nk you get a 1-night safety which can be important for majority

[dolphina]

You are not in a faction. Witch is a NEUTRAL role, you can do what the fuck ever you like after you die

except they arent talking about ''after they die'', they are talking about when they are alive and on trial

Can be used as a strategy where you reveal mafia which is a higher priority list or Nk to save yourself one night

Or you can out Mafia and sound with Nk you get a 1-night safety which can be important for majority

Nah they gon' lynch you and kill all of your allies

you piece of crap

[wozearly]

Can be used as a strategy where you reveal mafia which is a higher priority list or Nk to save yourself one night
Or you can out Mafia and sound with Nk you get a 1-night safety which can be important for majority

The underlying principle is sound, and that would be absolutely fine in a situation where it actually makes sense.

The problem is that in practice, there's pretty much no situation where both;

a) Town would want to vote down a confirmed Witch in favour of voting up a confirmed Mafia member, and
b) The Witch could still win afterwards

In most games, the Witch will act as a 5th Mafia member from a voting perspective. If Town needs to remove one of the Mafia voting block to prevent them gaining voting majority the following day, there's no reason not to remove the Witch - and many good reasons FOR removing them, since they can cause a lot more disruption to Town's plans. In this situation, revealing a Mafia member in the hope that Town will leave you alone simply reveals a Mafia member to the Town and gets you killed anyway.

To get Town to want to inno you, you'd have to be giving up the last killing Mafia role / the NK in a situation where Town desperately needs not to lose any more people. If that's the last scum killing role left, then you're screwed as you're reliant on them for kills - so that's a no go. It could plausibly work where Town will lose if 2 Town members are killed that night, and you're able to offer up the Mafia or NK to buy yourself one more night of time. But if I'm honest, I'm struggling to think of many ways where you could turn around a win from that, as you'll typically just be straight back on trial the following day and facing one of the previous two situations.


Generally, the only role which can pull off that kind of trade is the NK, in situations where Mafia are about to take control, Town are in lynch or lose, and the NK gets voted up. In these times, Town and NK actually share a common interest of stopping the Mafia - which just isn't true for the Witch.

[lemonader666]

Just make it so that Witch doesn't need to live to win, fucking hell.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

Just make it so that Witch doesn't need to live to win, fucking hell.

/support

[Kyosji]

You are not in a faction. Witch is a NEUTRAL role, you can do what the fuck ever you like after you die

except they arent talking about ''after they die'', they are talking about when they are alive and on trial

I wasn't talking that.

My role of surviving is gone, I failed, so I had in my will and when the exe animation was going on, said all I new.

I never brought up using the info I knew as some sort of tactic to survive by outing the evils. What's the point in that? My post was all about how I was already gone and the sentence was passed. Me informing the evil that i have info in my will, or them knowing i know who they are like my first post example, should act as some sort of protection. Just like how I have no obligation to protect them when I'm dead, they have no obligation to protect me when I'm alive. Them killing me or using me as fodder means nothing for their end win goals. I have to give them that if I'm presented the opportunity. I'm not sure where you got the bit about how me doing this while alive and on trial, but I didn't say that.

If you want to end the game, leave. You'll probably lose around the same amount of elo in ranked, and in anything else, it doesn't matter.

There is no quit button in game anymore. Also, if you haven't read the rules on https://www.blankmediagames.com/rules/
"No Leaving
No Leaving – Leaving a match during live play."

People keep bringing up that if you have no chance of winning, you can leave, but the fact that there is no quit button, you have to close the game to leave a match, and the official rules specifically say otherwise, I'm not going to just quit mid game.

[dolphina]

Just don't be an crappy person. You'll probably get reported for throwing anyway.

[Kyosji]

Just don't be an crappy person. You'll probably get reported for throwing anyway.

I've been reported for far stupider reasons.

[Flavorable]

Moderator Message: Moved from Feedback to ToS Discussion, since this isn't Feedback to the Devs or Mods, but moreso a discussion about the game.

[Kyosji]

I don't see it as a bad witch play. If that's the way I want to play, and it's not throwing, why not? If I want to use the info to threaten the evils like the example below, it's my prerogative. If I want the game to end quicker and I have the ability to do so so I can join a new game, where does it say I can't. I also don't always have to say the truth. I could put 1 or 2 evils in my will then put a town in the mix to make them lynch one of their own. You all call it bad witch play, but you really don't have the right to say it since you're not me playing that role.

didnt say it was bad witch play, I said it was a snitchy dick move. Which it is... https://imgur.com/6QyXewh

This image doesn't reflect what is being said out here. What I said had nothing to do with me telling the town my info for an inno vote. It specifically says once i'm guilty and the animation is over where i have nothing i can do.

[orangeandblack5]

If there's nothing you can do, why ruin the game for others?

You don't gain anything, by your own admission.

[Kyosji]

If there's nothing you can do, why ruin the game for others?

You don't gain anything, by your own admission.

Except speed the game along.

[ScarfVendetta]

If there's nothing you can do, why ruin the game for others?

You don't gain anything, by your own admission.

Except speed the game along.

That's a poor reason to ruin the underdog faction's chances of winning.

[Kyosji]

If there's nothing you can do, why ruin the game for others?

You don't gain anything, by your own admission.

Except speed the game along.

That's a poor reason to ruin the underdog faction's chances of winning.

They aren't my faction. That's like saying a evil faction killing a NE is a poor reason.

[KAKERMAN23]

Just don't be an crappy person. You'll probably get reported for throwing anyway.

The issue here is that:
1. If you get reported for throwing because you outed the mafia in your will as witch, you won't face any punishment since it's not throwing.
2. If you get reported for throwing because you left after being called out, unless you were already dead at that point, you are much more likely to face punishment, since you would be breaking a rule. Also, if you did leave while alive, you'd also (likely) need to wait out the leaving penalty timer thingy.

[ScarfVendetta]

If there's nothing you can do, why ruin the game for others?

You don't gain anything, by your own admission.

Except speed the game along.

That's a poor reason to ruin the underdog faction's chances of winning.

They aren't my faction. That's like saying a evil faction killing a NE is a poor reason.

I think you missed the point. You can screw over anybody that isn't in your faction. It just doesn't make sense to do so for such a marginal time-save, especially since as soon as you are lynched you can leave and go straight into your next game. This would save you far more time than outing all the evils then waiting for town to kill them off.

[Kyosji]

If there's nothing you can do, why ruin the game for others?

You don't gain anything, by your own admission.

Except speed the game along.

That's a poor reason to ruin the underdog faction's chances of winning.

They aren't my faction. That's like saying a evil faction killing a NE is a poor reason.

I think you missed the point. You can screw over anybody that isn't in your faction. It just doesn't make sense to do so for such a marginal time-save, especially since as soon as you are lynched you can leave and go straight into your next game. This would save you far more time than outing all the evils then waiting for town to kill them off.

You aren't allowed to quit the game. There is no quit button, and the rules specifically says you can't quit a live game.