Gender inclusivity

Put any feedback about the game here.

Of the following, what ways would you be okay seeing pronoun choices implemented?

No change whatsoever.
15
44%
Everyone uses they/them. No gendered (he/him or she/her) pronouns in the game.
4
12%
No change (changes with the skin you have on), but update some skins so you can access they/them as an option
1
3%
No change (changes with the skin you have on), but add some skins so you can access they/them as an option
1
3%
You can choose your skin to randomize between any skin that uses a specific pronoun - No They/them option (IE "random skin: female only")
2
6%
You can choose your skin to randomize between any skin that uses a specific pronoun - Update some skins so they/them is an option (IE "random skin: gender-neutral only")
1
3%
You can choose your skin to randomize between any skin that uses a specific pronoun - Add skins so they/them is an option (IE "random skin: male only")
1
3%
You can choose your skin independently of your pronouns- include she/her, he/him
1
3%
You can choose your skin independently of your pronouns- include she/her, he/him, random pronouns
0
No votes
You can choose your skin independently of your pronouns- include she/her, he/him, they/them
4
12%
You can choose your skin independently of your pronouns- include she/her, he/him, they/them, random pronouns
3
9%
Other: Described in the thread
1
3%
 
Total votes : 34

Gender inclusivity

Postby Scootalootaloo » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:52 pm

I think town of salem needs an update to be more inclusive. Not everyone who wants to use the crimson reaper skin is comfortable seeing he/him pronouns, nor do all those using the Uriel the Angel skin want to use she/her pronouns.

Town of Salem needs to allow players to select pronouns.

I'd even argue, since all other aspects of character customization can be randomized, that the options should be "she/her", "they/them", "he/him", and random.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Scootalootaloo » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:24 am

Noticed after posting that this is a very well documented thing that many players want. There is a thread in the suggestions section relatively recently.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=105938&p=3408710#p3408710
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Brilliand » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:59 am

Scootalootaloo wrote:Noticed after posting that this is a very well documented thing that many players want. There is a thread in the suggestions section relatively recently.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=105938&p=3408710#p3408710


It's misleading to say "this is a very well documented thing that many players want". It's a controversial thing that some players want and some players don't - and you should have known that this has already been proposed and discussed, since you posted in that very thread in early February.

/nosupport, for the reasons I posted in that thread, plus the added reason that you're being too aggressive about this (considering you announced that you "blocked everyone who doesn't support it").
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Flavorable » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:02 am

Unnecessary. You play the role of your chosen character. If you don't want to be called a certain gender, don't use that skin. If you play a protagonist of a game, you don't ask them to change the pronouns, either. Why would you do it here?
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby James2 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:16 pm

Scootalootaloo wrote:I think town of salem needs an update to be more inclusive. Not everyone who wants to use the crimson reaper skin is comfortable seeing he/him pronouns, nor do all those using the Uriel the Angel skin want to use she/her pronouns.

Town of Salem needs to allow players to select pronouns.

I'd even argue, since all other aspects of character customization can be randomized, that the options should be "she/her", "they/them", "he/him", and random.


In my opinion, anyone who is upset about being "misgendered" in an online game should take up a job or a hobby or some other useful activity to occupy their time. That usually cures such ails.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby kyuss420 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:58 am

Im gonna call everyone a him anyway. typing ''he'' is one less character I have to look for on my keyboard than if i type ''she'', so i may be able to post a second earlier than typing ''she''. Also its a role playing game, so what does it matter what gender you are role playing as? Its make believe....

Also, according to Islam and the Hebrew Bible, the Reapers name is Azrael which means ''Angel of God'' which is used as a boys name. The 7 arch angels are named Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Saraqael, Raguel, and Remiel (with Gabriel being the only one depicted as both genders), with the book of Enoch adding Ariel, Azrael, Haniel, Jeremiel, Raziel and the prophet Elijahs twin sons Metatron and Sandalphon.

So I implore the devs, so as not to offend my religious beliefs, that Uriels gender and pronouns be changed to male and made to stay that way.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Helicooler » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:22 am

just fucking add an option for they/them bmg
/ -
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Chemist1422 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:35 am

Skin defaults should probably be they/them just so issues like this don't exist

If you're getting referred to by the wrong pronouns in chat and that's an issue for you just correct people, that shouldn't be something the game has to work around
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Flavorable » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:05 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:Skin defaults should probably be they/them just so issues like this don't exist

If you're getting referred to by the wrong pronouns in chat and that's an issue for you just correct people, that shouldn't be something the game has to work around

I disagree about the defaults being they/them. I don't see why it has to be gender neutral when the skins literally physically have a gender. I like the full immersion of being the skin, my entire game experience shouldn't have to be specifically altered just to pacify someone else.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:30 pm

Flavorable wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:Skin defaults should probably be they/them just so issues like this don't exist

If you're getting referred to by the wrong pronouns in chat and that's an issue for you just correct people, that shouldn't be something the game has to work around
I disagree about the defaults being they/them. I don't see why it has to be gender neutral when the skins literally physically have a gender. I like the full immersion of being the skin, my entire game experience shouldn't have to be specifically altered just to pacify someone else.
Because some things are gendered, but others aren't. It should at least be consistent...
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Brilliand » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:02 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:Because some things are gendered, but others aren't. It should at least be consistent...


Which things aren't?
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:30 pm

Brilliand wrote:
MysticMismagius wrote:Because some things are gendered, but others aren't. It should at least be consistent...
Which things aren't?
From the death sequence, there's this: Spoiler: Image Even if you're indifferent to the topic of gender inclusivity, it's quite jarring to see the same person referred to as "he/she" and as "they" in consecutive sentences. Additionally, there are about a hundred Spy, Consig, and other in-game messages that aren't gendered either, referring to specific people as "they". There's merit to the argument that all messages like this should either use variable pronouns, or stick to "they" regardless of who the target is.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Flavorable » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:38 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
MysticMismagius wrote:Because some things are gendered, but others aren't. It should at least be consistent...
Which things aren't?
From the death sequence, there's this: Spoiler: Image Even if you're indifferent to the topic of gender inclusivity, it's quite jarring to see the same person referred to as "he/she" and as "they" in consecutive sentences. Additionally, there are about a hundred Spy, Consig, and other in-game messages that aren't gendered either, referring to specific people as "they". There's merit to the argument that all messages like this should either use variable pronouns, or stick to "they" regardless of who the target is.

But that's a whole different point. The main suggestion/feedback here wasn't a lack of consistency (also, I assume those messages are as such, because the game doesn't "read" the target's skin, it being a more basic message, but I will bring this up with the Devs), the main suggestion/feedback was to call everyone "they". And like Kat said, I'm not a they. I'm a she, I only use female skins for that reason, I like being a she, I wouldn't appreciate being put into a genderless, neutral pronoun, solely because a couple people want to have a male skin and be called a she or vice versa.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:45 pm

You asked "Why use they?" so that's what I answered. I didn't vote for it on the OP, and I can't devalue your being bothered by it. But there are reasons one might consider it to be a good idea.

Personally I would prefer the option to pick pronouns separately, because some people like myself randomize our skins, and as such the name we choose is far more important than the skin we get.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Helicooler » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:08 am

the two sides here

I want to be able to pick my gender even though everyone gets called he anyway
I don't want people to be called they all the time because genders give me immersion


both sides are bad
just add an option for non gender specific pronouns and badaba badaboom no problem for you
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Brilliand » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:47 pm

Helicooler wrote:just add an option for non gender specific pronouns and badaba badaboom no problem for you


You mean add an option to show non-gender-specific pronouns to the person who set the option, sort of like how the chat filter works?

That definitely sounds like a compromise, in that everyone would be a little bit unhappy.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Helicooler » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:06 am

I would also like to add theres no immersion in tos
like
what
you ever just be in a town with nate dogg and someone called "wet tissues" and threaten to hang everyone in the town in order to find out what their occupation is
very immersive
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Postby KnightHoly » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:22 am

I think people are dramatizing situations so much and taking such serious at all instead of have fun and get over with it
If there is a person who insults/spams somethings to you in order to annoy/threat you at a browser game,just ignore/block them if they continue,report them
That is all you can,I don't think some people are that obsessed with something like that targeting people through a game and abuse them or etc,lmao.
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Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:07 am

i am an inclusion, pls use

dummie/dumb-dumb pronouns when talking to me
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby cmitc1 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:01 am

not aware if this is just me, but am I the only one that never calls someone he or she based on their skin, but rather by the name that was chosen?
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby woahah » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:34 am

cmitc1 wrote:not aware if this is just me, but am I the only one that never calls someone he or she based on their skin, but rather by the name that was chosen?

a few people do that
but most people just use he
its still better than forcing a gender because alot of people would rather the game called them they
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby OddlesOfNoodles » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:09 pm

Literally just let people pick their own pronouns lmao. If you want to use she/her pronouns, then use she/her pronouns. It's not hurting you if someone else wants to use they/them pronouns, it's not your business what someone else identifies as. If you don't like the they/them pronouns then don't use them and pick the pronouns that you identify with. Ez.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Brilliand » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:32 pm

OddlesOfNoodles wrote:it's not your business what someone else identifies as.


Sure it is. I want to refer to the truth about someone. Identifying as something you're not is called "lying".
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:22 am

For context, I'm a cisgender male and I go by he/him, not they/them.

Flavorable wrote:Unnecessary. You play the role of your chosen character. If you don't want to be called a certain gender, don't use that skin. If you play a protagonist of a game, you don't ask them to change the pronouns, either. Why would you do it here?

Almost all multiplayer games have character customization, or in games like Mario Tennis, no real mention of genders. As well, you can't tell with certainty what gender anyone is.

KatiyaKramer wrote:
Xlranet wrote:
Flavorable wrote:Unnecessary. You play the role of your chosen character. If you don't want to be called a certain gender, don't use that skin. If you play a protagonist of a game, you don't ask them to change the pronouns, either. Why would you do it here?

this would force people to not go skins when they have them if they felt that way, like as the example said the crimson reaper skin, plus with the protagonist you are playing as a male/female, which differs in ToS as you are fully in control of your actions and can show more of your personality, including your gender IF the option was available

basically, i dont think its unnecessary because of the clear effect it has on some people who are more sensitive than others with pronouns, and theres hardly any drawbacks to having it. i know devs would prioritise other things before this but in the long run it would be a nice addition

If people are sensitive when it comes to pronouns in the game, the point remains that while you can change what the game says for 5 seconds after they die, you cannot change what the rest of the players are going to think. If they see someone with a more feminine skin and name, they will probably assume "Oh it's a girl" and refer to them as "she/her". If that player identifies neutral, will they take offense to it and start a war with the player who made the incorrect assumption? If they do it opens up to trolls bullying that person for being "sensitive" about it, or for being "gender fluid" in the first place (Because we already see people targeting players for openly stating they are furries, so it will happen here too), and it opens up to the offended player filing harassment reports when there is no rule break in an innocent assumption.

It frankly IS a useless change because all you are changing is what the game says for a few seconds when someone dies at night. Something that 95% of players don't even pay attention to because their focus is how the player died. You aren't changing how the players look at others and how they will make natural assumptions based on the skin or the name, and that is something that you can't change, and it can be more troublesome than what 5 seconds of text that no one looks at says.

Unless every game I've ever played has been 14 of your alternate accounts (nice touch on calling yourself a retard jailor, btw - very Keyser Soze) you don't speak for the rest of the players in the game. I don't refer to players as genders, I refer to them as (playername) and, if I feel like a dick, "dumbshit".

ok boomer wrote:
Scootalootaloo wrote:I think town of salem needs an update to be more inclusive. Not everyone who wants to use the crimson reaper skin is comfortable seeing he/him pronouns, nor do all those using the Uriel the Angel skin want to use she/her pronouns.

Town of Salem needs to allow players to select pronouns.

I'd even argue, since all other aspects of character customization can be randomized, that the options should be "she/her", "they/them", "he/him", and random.


In my opinion, anyone who is upset about being "misgendered" in an online game should take up a job or a hobby or some other useful activity to occupy their time. That usually cures such ails.


you've said your piece kyle kashuv, you can now return to polishing your gun and spitting mountain dew inside an empty moonshine bottle underneath a confederate flag

kyuss420 wrote:Im gonna call everyone a him anyway. typing ''he'' is one less character I have to look for on my keyboard than if i type ''she'', so i may be able to post a second earlier than typing ''she''. Also its a role playing game, so what does it matter what gender you are role playing as? Its make believe....

Also, according to Islam and the Hebrew Bible, the Reapers name is Azrael which means ''Angel of God'' which is used as a boys name. The 7 arch angels are named Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Saraqael, Raguel, and Remiel (with Gabriel being the only one depicted as both genders), with the book of Enoch adding Ariel, Azrael, Haniel, Jeremiel, Raziel and the prophet Elijahs twin sons Metatron and Sandalphon.

So I implore the devs, so as not to offend my religious beliefs, that Uriels gender and pronouns be changed to male and made to stay that way.

Uriel was killed with the Blade of Azrael and eradicated from existence beyond any hope of revival. So I implore the devs, so as to not offend my religious beliefs, that Uriels skin be removed from the game.

MysticMismagius wrote:
Flavorable wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:Skin defaults should probably be they/them just so issues like this don't exist

If you're getting referred to by the wrong pronouns in chat and that's an issue for you just correct people, that shouldn't be something the game has to work around
I disagree about the defaults being they/them. I don't see why it has to be gender neutral when the skins literally physically have a gender. I like the full immersion of being the skin, my entire game experience shouldn't have to be specifically altered just to pacify someone else.
Because some things are gendered, but others aren't. It should at least be consistent...

they said "defaults", meaning can be changed. id personally be opposed to consistency because there are several people, some cisgender some transgender, who only feel comfortable using their pronouns
KatiyaKramer wrote:I honestly would not want to be referred to as they/them. I'm a woman, I'm proud to be a woman, and I pick female skins and I want it to show that.

And I associate they/them with being defined as a "group of people", not a lone person who sees themselves as gender neutral, so that wording bothers me.

Then imagine that anyone who's "they/them" is a bunch of kids in a trench coat. If it still bothers you, tweet at the dictionary account because I'm sure they'd love to roast you like you're on an Eminem verse. (If you're not aware, the singular "they" is part of the dictionary)

Nobody's making the argument to have all skins be they/them, so while your pronouns are valid they're not really relevant here.

Flavorable wrote:
MysticMismagius wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
MysticMismagius wrote:Because some things are gendered, but others aren't. It should at least be consistent...
Which things aren't?
From the death sequence, there's this: Spoiler: Image Even if you're indifferent to the topic of gender inclusivity, it's quite jarring to see the same person referred to as "he/she" and as "they" in consecutive sentences. Additionally, there are about a hundred Spy, Consig, and other in-game messages that aren't gendered either, referring to specific people as "they". There's merit to the argument that all messages like this should either use variable pronouns, or stick to "they" regardless of who the target is.

But that's a whole different point. The main suggestion/feedback here wasn't a lack of consistency (also, I assume those messages are as such, because the game doesn't "read" the target's skin, it being a more basic message, but I will bring this up with the Devs), the main suggestion/feedback was to call everyone "they". And like Kat said, I'm not a they. I'm a she, I only use female skins for that reason, I like being a she, I wouldn't appreciate being put into a genderless, neutral pronoun, solely because a couple people want to have a male skin and be called a she or vice versa.

There's twelve separate options. If you don't like that one, pick another.

Also, if someone wanted to have a male skin and be called she, why in the sake of Fred says fuck would they support making all skins gender neutral?

BasicFourLife wrote:i am an inclusion, pls use

dummie/dumb-dumb pronouns when talking to me

No papa

cmitc1 wrote:not aware if this is just me, but am I the only one that never calls someone he or she based on their skin, but rather by the name that was chosen?

^

Brilliand wrote:
OddlesOfNoodles wrote:it's not your business what someone else identifies as.



Sure it is. I want to refer to the truth about someone. Identifying as something you're not is called "lying".

In case anyone's wondering, this is blatant transphobia.
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Re: Gender inclusivity

Postby Flavorable » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:50 am

As I've mentioned in another post: I've talked to the Devs about this subject and they don't feel it's necessary to make any changes at this point in time.

And since this thread is getting out of hand now and people are saying things that have no place here, I will be locking the thread.
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