Make Jugg a real role

[tipoima]

Ever since the unity beta, Juggernaut isn't even hidden in the role selection screen. So why does he still have a much lower chance of appearing and why is it still impossible to include him in custom or buy his scrolls? And when will it actually have proper investigative results instead of being ooooo, seeeecret roooole!?

[orangeandblack5]

Mods delete this post it gives up the secret role /s

/support

[noveiia]

I think the devs wanted to include him almost like a little Easter egg. It encourages players to play all/any and the scrolls are incentives to buy the bundles since you do in fact get them with bundles (I have 41 jugs scrolls). Plus it gives the jugg, an arguably hard role, a slight advantage since many players don’t even know it exists let alone its function so it’s harder for town/other alignments to combat the juggernaut. Basically I like the idea of a secret role and I don’t support this.

[MysticMismagius]

The problem with Jugg remaining a "secret" role is that the secret is already out. Everyone knows that Jugg exists. Everyone knows what it does. The game doesn't even bother to hide it anymore.

[noveiia]

I’ve actually seen quite a few coven players argue about how juggernaut works. Even so, I like that it’s an uncommon role because it makes games more exciting when it is and play and encourages all/any and custom gameplay.

[tipoima]

Literally everyone knows what Jugg does. And if someone doesn't, the rest of the town will figure it out.

[noveiia]

You can’t say everyone does, especially when it comes to newer Coven players. I’ve met players in Classic who haven’t even heard of basic roles like Psychic. Furthermore, my point still stands that it’s nice have a role you don’t see every game and it incentivises those types of game modes, especially since Custom can have long waiting periods.

[oddluck]

Juggernaut isn't real, you are all just imagining things

[noveiia]

Juggernaut isn't real, you are all just imagining things

The government has us right where they want us.
Anyway in a Ranked Practice game I just ran into someone who not only had never heard of the Juggernaut but hadn’t heard of Guardian Angels due to only playing certain game modes.

[SeerSword]

Honestly the rarity of Juggernaut is not the main issue, although for what you get it's rather bad. The main issue with Juggernaut is that for its rarity you have a very high chance of dying in your first 2 days. As Juggernaut I would say about half of my games I died by the end of night 2, with many of these being killed n1. Unlike other evils it just isn't balanced for an enjoyable solo play. It's worse than WW, it's worse than Plaguebearer, even Arsonist has roles you can pretend to be or claim doused. I would suggest either rework Juggernaut or make it less rare but I understand revenue stream comes from people buying scroll packages specifically for Juggernaut.

[kyuss420]

I’ve actually seen quite a few coven players argue about how juggernaut works. Even so, I like that it’s an uncommon role because it makes games more exciting when it is and play and encourages all/any and custom gameplay.

Ive seen quite a few coven players argue about how crus, psy, and even sheriff work...

Its not hard to play against, Jugg hardly ever wins, due to his lack of basic defence for 3 days, (5 if hes RBed n2).

My last Jugg game resulted in me being lynched day 2 because a noob jester claimed sheriff and said i was sus, the time before that i was attacked n3 and died, the time before that I played an excellent game, but forgot about the night 1 vet kill, got down to 1v1 with the vet, who alerted, and we both died XD, the time before that I was escorted n1, pirated n2 and dead n4.

Only Jugg wins Ive seen is when nuetrals have sided Jugger, literally every faction and NK hunts for Jugg, as they do with Pest.

[kosmo16]

I’ve actually seen quite a few coven players argue about how juggernaut works. Even so, I like that it’s an uncommon role because it makes games more exciting when it is and play and encourages all/any and custom gameplay.

Ive seen quite a few coven players argue about how crus, psy, and even sheriff work...

Its not hard to play against, Jugg hardly ever wins, due to his lack of basic defence for 3 days, (5 if hes RBed n2).

My last Jugg game resulted in me being lynched day 2 because a noob jester claimed sheriff and said i was sus, the time before that i was attacked n3 and died, the time before that I played an excellent game, but forgot about the night 1 vet kill, got down to 1v1 with the vet, who alerted, and we both died XD, the time before that I was escorted n1, pirated n2 and dead n4.

Only Jugg wins Ive seen is when nuetrals have sided Jugger, literally every faction and NK hunts for Jugg, as they do with Pest.

I won with Jugg twice without any help.

[kyuss420]

I’ve actually seen quite a few coven players argue about how juggernaut works. Even so, I like that it’s an uncommon role because it makes games more exciting when it is and play and encourages all/any and custom gameplay.

Ive seen quite a few coven players argue about how crus, psy, and even sheriff work...

Its not hard to play against, Jugg hardly ever wins, due to his lack of basic defence for 3 days, (5 if hes RBed n2).

My last Jugg game resulted in me being lynched day 2 because a noob jester claimed sheriff and said i was sus, the time before that i was attacked n3 and died, the time before that I played an excellent game, but forgot about the night 1 vet kill, got down to 1v1 with the vet, who alerted, and we both died XD, the time before that I was escorted n1, pirated n2 and dead n4.

Only Jugg wins Ive seen is when nuetrals have sided Jugger, literally every faction and NK hunts for Jugg, as they do with Pest.

I won with Jugg twice without any help.

Oh, I got 5 Jugg wins, but have rolled it maybe 20 times in total, its all about target selection, not killing nuetrals, and maybe a bit of clever bullshit if your gonna end up in a 1v1v1 situation... just trying to point out, its a very weak role defence wise

[ScarfVendetta]

Without Basic defense, you're a sitting duck. You have to make it past the end of Night 3 without getting picked off by Mafia, Potion Master/Poisoner, Vampires, Serial Killers, a Werewolf, or a randshooting Vigilante, without getting found by Coven Leader or Consigliere, without getting role blocked/jailed/pirated on Night 2 or Night 3, without dying on the attack to a Veteran, BodyGuard, or Medusa.

Usually Juggernaut is found in Coven AllAny, or sometimes in Coven Custom if you can find enough players to fill the lobby. You'll generally be up against these roles in abundance. Even if you do manage to survive to see your second power-up, you're still extremely weak to Investigators, Consiglieres, Coven Leader, Escorts, Consorts, Pirate, and the Jailor.


Imo, Juggernaut should have it's attack redirected to any roleblockers (Escorts, Consorts, Pirate, Jailor). It wouldn't solve the lack of defense issue, but it takes away one of it's biggest weaknesses that I really see no reason for it to have.

[MysticMismagius]

Redirection causes its own problem: namely, anyone who is jailed or roleblocked when a roleblocker dies to Jugg would instantly become a suspect, so Jugg is still fucked if he gets rb’d at the wrong time. It’d be better for Jugg if it was just roleblock inmune instead.