10v5 Ranked Role Lists for more Balanced Gameplay.

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10v5 Ranked Role Lists for more Balanced Gameplay.

Postby FroggyMaybe » Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:48 pm

The Current 9v6 Ranked List is Heavily Town Favored, but a single mistake can lose you the game on either side.
In this thread i am posting a few of my role list Ideas For more balanced, and more Skill-Based Gameplay.
I WOULD do a strategic explanation with chess pieces, but that'd sound weird.

General Rolelist Housekeeping for the current 9v6.
- Exe is practically Impactless, so lets remove him and replace him with something else.
- Witch being Guaranteed allows the town to do much riskier plays at no fear of jest. Witch should be switched for an NE slot, to Stop town.
- 3 RT Slots and 2 TI slots Limit claimspace and are somewhat in favor of investigators.

Suggested Role Lists. (Warning: Colours May not be accurate.)
10v5
Rolelist with decently balanced numbers, as it gives evils more claimspace
Prototype 1
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
NeutralKilling

This is a generally nice prototype to have as it gives mafia lots of claimspace in 5 RT, whilst also making the town majority go down faster than just 1 kill per night.

Variation 1.1
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
NeutralKilling

This would switch mafioso with RM, wich comes with some pros but also some cons.

Variation 1.1.1
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
MafiaKilling
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
NeutralKilling

Slight Change with Highened odds of an ambusher appearing, this is semily more balanced.

Variation 1.2
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
NeutralEvil

NE Instead of NK, Can Favor both sides slightly.

Variation 1.3

Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
RandomMafia
RandomNeutral
NeutralKilling

Still a 10v5, except this time its actually close to the old ranked rolelist

Version1.3.1
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
RandomMafia
NeutralEvil
NeutralKilling

This Is Balanced as fuck.

Version 1.4
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
RandomNeutral

This is to appease both the old and the new ranked community. Youll never know what you really get out of RN
Version 1.5
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
MafiaDeception
MafiaSupport
NeutralKilling

So, you were complaining about ambusher being OP in ranked?

Version 1.5.1
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
MafiaKilling
MafiaDeception
MafiaSupport
NeutralKilling

What an expected comeback from 1.5 amiright?

Version 1.6
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
NeutralKilling
NeutralKilling

Oh, what was that D1 Jailor? You were complaining about the NK Slot? Well heres another one for ya!
Version 1.7
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
Arsonist

Oh you don't like there being Odds of an Arsonist? Have a guaranteed one instead.

Version 1.8
Jailor
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
Vampire

I like the odds of a Vampire being in ranked. It could happen decently rarely if the planets aligned.

Version 1.9

Vigilante
TownInvestigative
TownProtective
TownKilling
TownSupport
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
RandomTown
Godfather
Mafioso
RandomMafia
RandomMafia
NeutralKilling

Why Always have a Jailor when you can switch it out for something like vigi? Atleast dont have to get lynched every time theres a confirmed vet now.


Personally, i like the idea of 10v5 being the ranked rolelist. It really Depends on your skill and not some shitty mistake if you win the game or not.
Neutral killing being removed was shit, as town could lose real numbers real rapidly.


In my opinion, rolelists should also vary. Maybe start off Ranked Practice with prototype 1, but add each of the rolelists to ranked queues. It'll be different every time and you'll REALLY need skill to put up with the different situations.


Ideas? let me know.
I Really wish we'd have balanced 10v5 role lists in ranked at some point. That would be amazing.

Spoiler: https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=121355

Frogge (TM)


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Re: 10v5 Ranked Role Lists for more Balanced Gameplay.

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:29 pm

1.2 seems like the best, but some roles need changes to make it better
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Re: 10v5 Ranked Role Lists for more Balanced Gameplay.

Postby alex1234321 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:46 pm

I think 1.3.1 is close to an ideal Ranked rolelist, but the biggest issue is that the game is too Townsided for a 10 Town rolelist to be viable, especially with 3 Mafia. But 10 Town is better than 9 since if it can be balanced for it would lead to longer games where either team can come back after making an error. Banning Jailor (and Mayor) would be a good start toward balancing a rolelist like this, and adding TMK would also help. I'm not sure what winrates would look like after those changes, but they should be close enough that any remaining difference could be accounted for in the Elo system.
Last edited by alex1234321 on Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 10v5 Ranked Role Lists for more Balanced Gameplay.

Postby Soulshade55r » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:13 pm

Not Really for Neutral killing in ranked, Objectively they're more imbalanced for the game then Neutral benign, they randomly kill and screw over one side more then another they're literally kingsmakers that choose to get rid of someone from a random faction each night, people can say "oh nk can scum read lol" but if the entire town is struggling to scum read why would nk have any better idea on who to scum read, unless the NK is this super skilled player and town are dumb.

10v5 Is a great idea of paper, current existing problems with how roles such as: Jailor, Transporter, Spy, Lo, Mayor + More listed is the reason why 5v10 doesn't work and not actually because 10v5 is "town sided" arguably 10 citizens vs 5 Scum is insanely evil sided but when every role is a power role and in those power roles they have ways of confirming each other it becomes a mess of not finding scum it's more confirming a player, which is generally easy especially if you get lucky with which roles spawn in.

I don't mind confirmations or lowering pools of potential scum the problem is that the game gives no breathing room for scum but they also have 6 scum which is stupidly evil sided in anything that wouldn't have so many power roles like Jailor.

The main solution is changing town roles, nerfing easy confirmability, allowing things such as TMK and buffing mafias general power, so theirs more breathing room for mafia in how they can play making one mafia dc or mistake not a auto loss, but also if town makes a mistake they also are allowed some breathing room, It's a problem with how fast town are being confirmed more then a problem with 5v10 being "evil sided".
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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