Neutral Evils should always be anti-town. EVIL, its literally in the name. Executioner and Jester need to move to Benign. Pirate should be moved to Neutral Evil with a rework and about 2-3 more roles that are as equally balanced, should be added.
What do you mean Consigliere be a daycop?
Retributionist the only way I can think to rework it, is to allow it to use all Town roles and be able to attempt to use all cleaned roles. If its a Neutral or Mafia it will fail. If the cleaned role is town, then the actions will be successful, but the Retributionist will be unaware of what the role was, unless they receive feedback for it.
Mafia Lookout is needed to stop Lookout from being instant-confirmed. But its not a solid counter to tp/lo. Besides from LO no longer being instantly confirmed, a lot of the town will still be confirmed by Day 2 or 3. The role would still have a low chance of occurring and even if it does, it is not that detrimental to tp/lo. TP/LO will still happen as it will still be the best way for a Town Leader to confirm all roles. Not all Visitors are guaranteed to be TP, so the Mafia still has to narrow down who TP is and kill them before they get a chance to kill the Jailor or Mayor.
I still really think a Mafia with a 1 shot day-kill with a confirmable town counter-part which is apart of Town Government would be a really good idea. I really don't see what the issue with 1 extra kill would be when we are talking about reducing how many evils are in the game anyway. It would be perfectly balanced in a GF/2RM/2Neutral setup with TMK implemented. If people aren't cool about having more Mafia killing roles, then I suppose it could be a Neutral Evil role, but it would need another abillity.
Ambusher is different because its RNG, can get multiple kills and has the issue of being instantly revealed
If people are committed to a game then I don't see them leaving because they've been audited. People in ranked still stay when they're alive because they have hope. But at least if you've been audited you can still lead the town and fully contribute to the game. Only staying audited until the Auditor dies is a good idea though.
having your role snatched away is more fun than dying" is only an argument if Vanillaizer was already a role that could kill. Yeah, being vanillaized is more fun than dying, but nobody's killing them so why should it be considered.
Getting killed isn't getting vanillized. Losing your role is 100% more fun then dying and watching until the game ends, so its still a valid argument. Neutral Evil roles are not meant to directly kill anyone, but are meant to have a detrimental effect on the town and revoking a players abilities is certainly detrimental, especially if you are a Power role. Most of the fun happens during the day anyway and most people don't have any active abilities during the day. The fun comes from discussion and making big brain plays.
You CAN contribute, but the game would likely be more boring and less desirable to play through.
Disagree, if you have purpose and are committed to the game you will still have fun. Auditing wouldn't be that common anyway and it should be under a Neutral Evil slot along with other balanced roles. Auditing would also be limited and certain TPS would be able to defend against it. As a Doctor or a Citizen its the difference between pushing 1 fancy button at night
I still don't see why we should have two roles that are INCREDIBLY similar in function when we could have each TPow be different to give each a distinct feel.
Variety, more investigative spots and more roles for the Town Government alignment. Marshall is perfectly balanced, so I don't see the problem
Jailor should have either equivalent or harsher guilt than Vigilante, and Vigilante should have guilt because normally, the Town has to agree (50% + 1 votes) on who to kill. If Vigilante can kill on their own, they should be punished for picking wrong, but I agree suicide is too much.
3 bullets, jailor guilt is the best way to go then. 2 executes for Jailor
Spies and Escorts go on Jailor now, so there's not much difference. It would make it easier for Mafia to find TP, which is a good thing.
It still would not reduce TP/LO meta as it would still be the best way for Town confirmability. If theres lots of spies/escorts/tp then Mafia still has to narrow down all the tp, before they have a chance to kill the Jailor and that could still take at least 2-3 nights. And its just one Mafia role, sure it reduces Lookout confirmability. But people will work out how to scum read against fake Lookouts. It also only has a very small chance of occurring seeing as there are only 2 RM spots and multiple other RM roles. The ability is not detrimental enough against Town Power roles. A day time Mafia killer or an Auditor would be a better way to deal with TP/LO. I can guarantee power roles will not be revealing on day 1 if there's a role that can snipe them instantly
Framer should last until Investigated with Sheriff/Investigator, but should also show the framed target as visiting the Mafia kill. Passive frames is bad. Disguiser shouldn't be so much of a hard-counter to Sheriffs. Id prefer the Disguiser being revealed as its targets role on death like it use to be, but with another ability as well (like redirecting targeting, with limited uses)
On Armoursmith being instantly confirmed tp. Mafia could always fake Armoursmith and one of their team mates could always claim to have received Armour. Early on in the game, most people are going to stay silent about receiving armour anyway, so its more effective. So an Armoursmith won't necessarily be confirmed until he gets voted up and someone confirms that they've received Armour. Obvious how much Armour he gives out should be limited to 3 or 4
The best Consigliere buff I've seen is them also being informed of how many of his targets roles are in the game. e.g. Investigate 5; Your target is a Bodyguard there is one other in the game.
Sheriff should be able to detect all proper Neutral Evils. Send Exe and Jester to NB. Arguably, Jester should appear suspicious. Disguiser shouldn't hard counter Sheriff. The only NK role which should be immune to detection is ARsonist, at least in the early game.
Proper Neutral Evil roles should have a 1 time use defense. I still believe if you die N1 as a Witch, suck it up and move onto another game. Neutral Benign shouldn't have defense at all, unless that's apart of their role (Survivor).