Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

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Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby MafiaForever » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:16 am

Spy is both the most infuriating role to deal with while simultaneously being the most boring and annoying role to play.

Not only is it overpowered as hell when left alive but at the same time it is so tedious and boring to play as well as being annoying due to the fact that if you claim day 1, everyone will kill you and if you don't claim day 1, you will be lynched immediately once you reveal late game.

The role requires you to write a crazy long will too which takes a lot of work, it's tedious as hell to play as for this reason and it sucks even moreso when the town are too stupid to bother reading what you spent ages writing.

The silly thing is that it's stupidly OP. Mafia can't talk, they daren't talk because of the fear of being spied on, which defeats the purpose of having mafia chat at night. If they say anything, it could ruin the whole game for maf, if the spy is alive that is. Even if the spy is dead, there could be another random who is also spy so there is never any talking in mafia chat.

Everyone always listens to sherrif, investigator and jailors, completely ignoring spy's which is crazy to me but they do. Spy's are like mediums but far worse since everybody is out to get them, the town will lynch them immediately upon revealing and if they reveal day 1... yeah like I said before they get killed quickly.

It's a role that really has no place in this game and ruins the fun of playing mafia whilst also being a role that isn't fun to play at all and is a tedious ordeal.

If you get spy role, it's best to just quit the game just to save yourself the trouble... unless you're playing ranked and if you are... good luck, you'll need it.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Ezradekezra » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:45 am

Wasn't the ability to see whispers and the Mafia chat removed years ago?
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:54 am

Ezradekezra wrote:Wasn't the ability to see whispers and the Mafia chat removed years ago?

Yes.. Yes it was.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby MafiaForever » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:58 am

Hmm well thats weird, people in mafia chat are still quiet usually so I never knew. Regardless I still hate the role, it's just so annoying to play as.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Flavorable » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:33 pm

To each their own. I personally find spy a fun role.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Benn3 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:00 pm

MafiaForever wrote:Spy is both the most infuriating role to deal with while simultaneously being the most boring and annoying role to play.

Not only is it overpowered as hell when left alive but at the same time it is so tedious and boring to play as well as being annoying due to the fact that if you claim day 1, everyone will kill you and if you don't claim day 1, you will be lynched immediately once you reveal late game.

No reason to claim D1 as Spy. If there's no kills any night, that's when you reveal who the Mafia visited. You can also reveal when the information is actually useful, like finding out if a Transporter claim is actually a Hypnotist, etc.

The role requires you to write a crazy long will too which takes a lot of work, it's tedious as hell to play as for this reason and it sucks even moreso when the town are too stupid to bother reading what you spent ages writing.

The will really isn't that hard to write unless you get a bugging result AND Mafia visits, but usually I just write something like "N1: Bugging 10(target attacked by mafia. MV: 10, 2, 3). Town ALWAYS asks for Spies whenever there's no kill as you can out the people who have defense.

The silly thing is that it's stupidly OP. Mafia can't talk, they daren't talk because of the fear of being spied on, which defeats the purpose of having mafia chat at night. If they say anything, it could ruin the whole game for maf, if the spy is alive that is. Even if the spy is dead, there could be another random who is also spy so there is never any talking in mafia chat.

This has already been responded to, but yeah, Spy hasn't been able to hear Mafia chat in years. It's still OP in the way it can immediately out a Disguiser and then narrow the 4 visits down to find who's Mafia, and how they can also almost immediately find out if any other Mafia role exists. You can out a Consigliere if they claim Invest, you can out a Consort if they claim Escort(although it's stupid as hell for one of them to claim it, but you find out there's a consort nonetheless), you can out a Hypnotist if they claim Transporter, etc.

Everyone always listens to sherrif, investigator and jailors, completely ignoring spy's which is crazy to me but they do. Spy's are like mediums but far worse since everybody is out to get them, the town will lynch them immediately upon revealing and if they reveal day 1... yeah like I said before they get killed quickly.

Like I said earlier, people don't ignore Spies. Town usually asks at the start of the day "Spies post" or "Spies?" when there's no kill, and otherwise you can simply say "so and so has defense, they were visited by Mafia and there were no kills." Or, "so and so is consort, they claimed escort but the person they rbd was visited by mafia." It isn't that hard to get Town's attention, you can do more than just post your results.

It's a role that really has no place in this game and ruins the fun of playing mafia whilst also being a role that isn't fun to play at all and is a tedious ordeal.

IMO it's more fun than a lot of other roles in this game but it does need a rework; simply getting the visits of all the Mafia passively requires no skill and immediately can out Mafia members or roles with defense. I don't see why it doesn't have a place though, it can be super useful and the TG has a rework that's still viable but requires more skill.

If you get spy role, it's best to just quit the game just to save yourself the trouble... unless you're playing ranked and if you are... good luck, you'll need it.

Spy is at its best in Ranked. Who would want to quit as a Spy over a role like Framer? I agree that it's annoying as hell to play AGAINST but playing as the role itself can be fun, at least in my opinion.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby SizzleShot » Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:23 pm

this is a troll post, idk why you guys are responding to it seriously lol
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Kietaru » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:33 am

SizzleShot wrote:this is a troll post, idk why you guys are responding to it seriously lol


perhaps he was being serious, I do agree with the elaborate wills being required but ignored... if you dont make a long complicated will in perfect format then people lynch you but if you make it people dont even read/use it anyway.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Midio7 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:48 pm

Spy is fun as hell to play what do you mean?

Also, my wills usually go like this:

Davidonio is Spy

N1 B: John Willard (roleblocked) MV:John Proctor, William Phips, Sarah Bishop CV: yo mama, pizza, idk why im here,

You get the point, if nothing happened at the person I bugged I would say nv

The reason I like Spy is because he requires a long will.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Joacgroso » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:18 pm

Reading spy wills in the chat is a pain, though.
I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby cmitc1 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:02 pm

ya its a bad role.

Your passively fed amazing information and cripple several mafia roles. For doing nothing, but existing. It has always been a toxic role for the game.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Ezradekezra » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:16 pm

Alternate suggestion: Make Spy Coven-exclusive

The Coven doesn't really rely on deception as much as the Mafia does, so seeing Coven visits isn't as overpowered.

Additionally, Mafia Returns is completely dead and CAA isn't intended to be balanced, so leaving Spy in those modes shouldn't be much of an issue.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:11 am

Ezradekezra wrote:Alternate suggestion: Make Spy Coven-exclusive

The Coven doesn't really rely on deception as much as the Mafia does, so seeing Coven visits isn't as overpowered.

Additionally, Mafia Returns is completely dead and CAA isn't intended to be balanced, so leaving Spy in those modes shouldn't be much of an issue.


I highly doubt it will happen, ambusher and hypno being moved into classic was already a very special thing, and removing content will never be a good solution if you can rework it
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:53 am

Ezradekezra wrote:Alternate suggestion: Make Spy Coven-exclusive

The Coven doesn't really rely on deception as much as the Mafia does, so seeing Coven visits isn't as overpowered.

Additionally, Mafia Returns is completely dead and CAA isn't intended to be balanced, so leaving Spy in those modes shouldn't be much of an issue.


except when goose is spy, and picks off the CL day 3 after the potion master healed them n2.... (CLs visit is either stoned, or claimed controlled, medusa doesnt have a visit, usually gives you a 50/50 on who the CL is, via the PMs visit and whoever the RC visited - unless they claim poisoned, or its a necro game, then you got a 100/100 on who the CL is)

or sees the necromancer visit a dead guy, exposing the RC as necro, so sheriffs n2 ''sus'' guy cant have been hexed....
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:21 am

kyuss420 wrote:except when goose is spy, and picks off the CL day 3 after the potion master healed them n2.... (CLs visit is either stoned, or claimed controlled, medusa doesnt have a visit, usually gives you a 50/50 on who the CL is, via the PMs visit and whoever the RC visited - unless they claim poisoned, or its a necro game, then you got a 100/100 on who the CL is)

or sees the necromancer visit a dead guy, exposing the RC as necro, so sheriffs n2 ''sus'' guy cant have been hexed....

How can you know that a PM won't use the reveal potion on night 2?
I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Ezradekezra » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:25 am

Spy can't roll in VIP mode tho
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby kyuss420 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:12 am

Joacgroso wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:except when goose is spy, and picks off the CL day 3 after the potion master healed them n2.... (CLs visit is either stoned, or claimed controlled, medusa doesnt have a visit, usually gives you a 50/50 on who the CL is, via the PMs visit and whoever the RC visited - unless they claim poisoned, or its a necro game, then you got a 100/100 on who the CL is)

or sees the necromancer visit a dead guy, exposing the RC as necro, so sheriffs n2 ''sus'' guy cant have been hexed....

How can you know that a PM won't use the reveal potion on night 2?


also a 50/50, but its dumb to not heal the CL before they get basic defence... and the sooner you use a kill/heal pot, the sooner you get to use a 2nd kill/heal pot, so optimally kill pot and heal pot are used first... so PM should be healing the CL n1 or n2. Reveal pot is basically a wasted night and only useful for removing traps, since most town are going to claim anyway, and anyone with a logical brain can figure out the roles of the remaining non claimers by POE and players wills (just like playing vigi and a few other town roles) especially since coven know who is lying from the get go.

Same applies, in CAA, and TT... VIP mode doesnt have a spy, so why would i be talking bout that?
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby orangeandblack5 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:55 am

Bruh
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SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:07 am

orangeandblack5 wrote:Bruh



You are still alive?!
First alex then kigirze and now you
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby Kirize12 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:58 am

Speaking of me

orangeandblack5 wrote:Bruh


Wait what side are you on? You’ve been as anti-Spy as I was in the past so this feels out of character

Ezradekezra wrote:Alternate suggestion: Make Spy Coven-exclusive

The Coven doesn't really rely on deception as much as the Mafia does, so seeing Coven visits isn't as overpowered.

Additionally, Mafia Returns is completely dead and CAA isn't intended to be balanced, so leaving Spy in those modes shouldn't be much of an issue.

All Any, Coven included, isn’t intended to be balanced, but it should still be fun. Spy isn’t fun to play against, it’s completely random whether your visits are being followed or not. Feedback cop isn’t really the most useful as well, as it only serves for self confirming or testing liars...neither of which are the most useful on its own. But the abilities together, combined with a delayed night to not be as useful to any confirmed town metas...it’s worth testing, anyways, and I’d rather add it than Parity Cop which is basically almost always objectively worse than Sheriff and is meant to be a role of its own instead of spawning in the same roleslot as other roles.

Image

This isn’t thread hijacking, btw. If we’re discussing Spy alternatives it’s only fair they all get discussed.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:58 pm

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=114417&p=3567656&hilit=Spy#p3567656

Its poorly edited (thats not my strong point) but ig it might be useful for you?
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Re: Remove Spy Role, It Ruins The Game!!!

Postby orangeandblack5 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:25 pm

The bruh is thinking Spy could still read Mafia chat (because nobody talks there)

It's funny
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SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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