Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Put any feedback about the game here.

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby Brilliand » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:07 pm

Ezradekezra wrote:Alternatively, the Juggernaut could be upgraded to powerful defense on the second kill. It would make Juggernaut more powerful in the long run, but it would delay the rampage and unstoppable attacks while making the Juggernaut/Pestilence achievement less gamethrow-y.


This would be better than giving the Jugg Astral. I approve.
My best role ideas:
Conqueror
Apocalypse Survivor
User avatar
Brilliand
Disguiser
Disguiser
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:34 pm

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby TheFluffyWaffleV2 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:16 pm

Brilliand wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Alternatively, the Juggernaut could be upgraded to powerful defense on the second kill. It would make Juggernaut more powerful in the long run, but it would delay the rampage and unstoppable attacks while making the Juggernaut/Pestilence achievement less gamethrow-y.


This would be better than giving the Jugg Astral. I approve.

Nah

After Jugg gets his 5th kill the game ends and he wins automatically obv
Certified Goop God
Spoiler: Also known as;
Goop, Goopy, Gooped, Goopster, Goopioso, Gooped Out, Gooper, Goopfather, Goopilante, Goopvestigator,
Goop Time, Goopmailer, Goop Master, Goop Gospel, Goop Troop, Gooper Trooper, Goop Coup, Coup De Goop, and more.


Least favorite role: Disguiser
Favorite role: Guardian Angel
Best suggestion: Alliances
FM record
User avatar
TheFluffyWaffleV2
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:24 am
Location: Bama

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby kyuss420 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:29 am

Ezradekezra wrote:What about changing Juggernaut so that it starts with a one-time barrier, like what Witch has, and then upgrading it to actual defense later on?

Alternatively, the Juggernaut could be upgraded to powerful defense on the second kill. It would make Juggernaut more powerful in the long run, but it would delay the rampage and unstoppable attacks while making the Juggernaut/Pestilence achievement less gamethrow-y.


He doesnt need powerful defence. The role was designed to have (and use) the strongest attack in the game. Pest was designed to have the strongest defence. Powerful defence would make Jugg immune to WW and immune to his own attack (until his attack powers up) would also make him immune to BG, trap, vet.

Also Im sure Jugg ignores BG and trapper when hes fully powered up (Bypasses anything that protects a player) so n6 onwards. Im not sure, but he may even ignore GA protection.

Yes Jugg is OP, it was designed that way. It was also weak. too many people complained that it was too weak, so it got the basic defence buff. Before the buff, town had 3 nights to deal with him. If anything needs to be done to solve ''the problem'' they should just revert it to how it was designed in the first place.... no defence til n3, no unstoppable rampage until n6. (but apparently thats ''too hard'' to win with....altho I managed to do it 10 times...)
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Godfather
Godfather
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby Brilliand » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:19 pm

kyuss420 wrote:Also Im sure Jugg ignores BG and trapper when hes fully powered up (Bypasses anything that protects a player) so n6 onwards.


I can't remember where I saw this, but I'm sure I saw it confirmed recently that if a full-power Juggernaut walks into a Bodyguard/Trapper protection, both the Juggernaut and his target die. That is, the Juggernaut "kills through" the protection, but doesn't entirely bypass it.
My best role ideas:
Conqueror
Apocalypse Survivor
User avatar
Brilliand
Disguiser
Disguiser
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:34 pm

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby Ezradekezra » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:23 pm

Wouldn't upgrading Juggernaut to powerful defense after the second kill (as I suggested before) eliminate confusion over how the final power-up works with a Bodyguard or Trapper? Both of them only have powerful attacks, so powerful defense would make Juggernaut fully immune to killing TPs.
My Suggestions and Ideas

Forger Overhaul
Lovers Nighttime Chat
Better Investigator Results
Diverter (Coven Evil)

Image
I have a Ralsei avatar now. Am I cool yet?
User avatar
Ezradekezra
Doctor
Doctor
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: The surface of the Sun

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby kyuss420 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:17 am

Ezradekezra wrote:Wouldn't upgrading Juggernaut to powerful defense after the second kill (as I suggested before) eliminate confusion over how the final power-up works with a Bodyguard or Trapper? Both of them only have powerful attacks, so powerful defense would make Juggernaut fully immune to killing TPs.


It would, but you forget that the OP complained that Jugg is too hard to kill, now that he has basic defence, so thats what makes him more OP than other NKs.... he is too hard to kill.... (really no harder than any other NK) I think this is what the thread was about anyway....
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Godfather
Godfather
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby Brilliand » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:28 am

kyuss420 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Wouldn't upgrading Juggernaut to powerful defense after the second kill (as I suggested before) eliminate confusion over how the final power-up works with a Bodyguard or Trapper? Both of them only have powerful attacks, so powerful defense would make Juggernaut fully immune to killing TPs.


It would, but you forget that the OP complained that Jugg is too hard to kill, now that he has basic defence, so thats what makes him more OP than other NKs.... he is too hard to kill.... (really no harder than any other NK) I think this is what the thread was about anyway....


Yes. This line of discussion about buffing the Juggernaut came about in response to this:

kyuss420 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:Here's an idea: Make Juggernaut start with a basic attack instead of a powerful one, and give them the powerful attack as a reward for the second kill, replacing what used to be gaining defense. It might make Juggernaut a bit underpowered if too many people have defense, though.


problem is when they hit someone with basic defence n2. May as well give up there and then..... no kill means no power up, means 2 more nights before a kill attempt can be made again.. Would also make WW a stronger version of Jugg XD


Ezradekezra proposed a nerf to Juggernaut, you objected that that would be an over-nerf, and then I started the discussion of ways to buff Juggernaut a little more to compensate for that.
My best role ideas:
Conqueror
Apocalypse Survivor
User avatar
Brilliand
Disguiser
Disguiser
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:34 pm

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:16 am

oh yea

So OP was complaining that Jugg has basically won the match, if hes alive n6 (unless he walks into a vet, BG, trapper, jailor, WW, Arso, Pest, pirate, jester.... or if everybody decides to stay home cos, ya know, fully powered up jugg on the loose) because hes too hard to kill.

but Id argue that if WW is alive n6, he also has basically won the match (unless he walks into a vet, BG, trapper, jailor, Jugg, Arso, Pest, pirate, jester.... or if everybody decides to stay home cos, ya know, WW on the loose)
or if Pest was alive n6 (unless he walks into a TP combo.... or if everybody decides to stay home cos, ya know, Pest on the loose)

Joca complained that the rampage treaded on WWs toes too much... (altho jugg can rampage a jailor and kill the jailed target...which is written in the lore) to which I argued that Jugg has always been a stronger version of WW at end game and a stronger version of SK in early game (apart from the defence, which was never really Juggys thing anyway).

Easy fix... make the role rare again ^^
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Godfather
Godfather
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:42 am

What would making the role rarer fix? Bragging rights?
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
Also, support my suggestion about private lobbies!It would definitely increase the playerbase.
User avatar
Joacgroso
Werewolf
Werewolf
 
Posts: 3026
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby kyuss420 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:33 am

Joacgroso wrote:What would making the role rarer fix? Bragging rights?


noobs would stop complaining that hes too hard to kill/too OP, becuase they wouldnt face a Jugg as often. Probably why they made it rare to begin with...... but apparently the community wanted it less rare and wanted more games with a powerful role in play, because no one said shit on the ''buff jugg'' and the ''make jugg more common'' threads
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Godfather
Godfather
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:34 am

Personally I believe making a role super rare is a very cheap way of making it interesting. Roles should be interesting because of their mechanics. I see no reason to revert its rarity.
I don't think the devs made juggs rare so "noobs" wouldn't complaint. They probably wanted a surprise role and didn't think much about it.
And obviously, hiding something that may be a problem so people won't complaint instead of fixing it is a mediocre idea. Either listen to the "noobs" and "fix" it, or convince them why it's not broken. It's not like they can do much anyway.
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
Also, support my suggestion about private lobbies!It would definitely increase the playerbase.
User avatar
Joacgroso
Werewolf
Werewolf
 
Posts: 3026
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Jugg Op compared to other NK.

Postby kyuss420 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:15 am

Joacgroso wrote:Personally I believe making a role super rare is a very cheap way of making it interesting. Roles should be interesting because of their mechanics. I see no reason to revert its rarity.
I don't think the devs made juggs rare so "noobs" wouldn't complaint. They probably wanted a surprise role and didn't think much about it.
And obviously, hiding something that may be a problem so people won't complaint instead of fixing it is a mediocre idea. Either listen to the "noobs" and "fix" it, or convince them why it's not broken. It's not like they can do much anyway.


Yea, I dont think it was broken before. I dont think its broken now either. But early game Jugg is much easier now than before. Late game Jugg is really no different to a Pest or WW being in match late game, probably easier for town and evil factions than a late game Pest. In a game with no kingmakers, Id much prefer to face a Jugg than a pest... either way youre not gonna be visiting
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Godfather
Godfather
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Previous

Return to Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests