Human nature and quitting

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Human nature and quitting

Postby JAF1970 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:57 pm

Developers.

Tried out the new Retributionist ability. It's pretty bad. Can't Mayor. Can't Trapper. Am limited to roles that may or may not be useful.

I get why you changed the role -- people quit. So that hampers Medium and Ret.

But guess what? You gave less incentive for people to stay.

I'm sorry, but you have to do something people will hate -- follow my suggestion that quitting as Town when there's a Medium or Retributionist present, whether they know it or not, will cause a very long delay before playing again.

Don't reward rage quitting. It sucks but that's Werewolf. Either remove both roles or enforce both roles so they're not useless. One or the other. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. This is from a pure game design viewpoint.

People WILL troll.
People WILL grief.
People WILL rage quit.
People WILL use anonymity to harass.

There's nothing you can do about it but address it. People will rage quit and play again quickly. Because they're impatient.

You know what World of Warcraft did for those long flights? They incorporated Bejeweled and Peggle that could be played while on those flights. There are tons of things you can do to keep people invested in the game.

Trying to make roles that are made to communicate with the dead less useful by not needing the dead is an oxymoron. Either dump the roles or punish quitters.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:08 pm

JAF1970 wrote:I get why you changed the role -- people quit. So that hampers Medium and Ret.


Actually, it was changed to nerf it, because it was incredibly overpowered, and people were complaining about that frequently.

JAF1970 wrote:But guess what? You gave less incentive for people to stay.


Whether people stay or not isn't that big a deal anyway.

JAF1970 wrote:Trying to make roles that are made to communicate with the dead less useful by not needing the dead is an oxymoron. Either dump the roles or punish quitters.


Or rework the roles into things that accomplish something similar without needing the dead? What the Medium does at core is pretty cool (it retrieves information that died with a townie). Even that could be designed in a way that doesn't need the dead players to stay, though.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby kyuss420 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:22 am

JAF1970 wrote:Developers.

Tried out the new Retributionist ability. It's pretty bad. Can't Mayor. Can't Trapper. Am limited to roles that may or may not be useful.



Welcome to Necromancer when the entire graveyard is stoned and cleaned for the first 3 nights.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby MysticMismagius » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:55 pm

kyuss420 wrote:
JAF1970 wrote:Developers.

Tried out the new Retributionist ability. It's pretty bad. Can't Mayor. Can't Trapper. Am limited to roles that may or may not be useful.
Welcome to Necromancer when the entire graveyard is stoned and cleaned for the first 3 nights.
At least it is better now that the TI you can use actually give results

Was really annoying back in the day when you could theoretically use most TI but had almost no reason to ever do so
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby kyuss420 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:51 am

MysticMismagius wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:
JAF1970 wrote:Developers.

Tried out the new Retributionist ability. It's pretty bad. Can't Mayor. Can't Trapper. Am limited to roles that may or may not be useful.
Welcome to Necromancer when the entire graveyard is stoned and cleaned for the first 3 nights.
At least it is better now that the TI you can use actually give results

Was really annoying back in the day when you could theoretically use most TI but had almost no reason to ever do so


Yea, only reason to use em was to break traps... or out yourself to a tracker....
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby dolphina » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

Also: loving the new witch schematics. So clean! Keep it up, devs
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby James2 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:14 pm

JAF1970 wrote:I'm sorry, but you have to do something people will hate -- follow my suggestion that quitting as Town when there's a Medium or Retributionist present, whether they know it or not, will cause a very long delay before playing again.


This should be implemented, but to avoid cheating, it should apply anywhere a medium (or ret until this month) could exist.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby JaguarJumps » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:46 am

Ret didn't need a change. It was just another example of Ranked being used as the model for every other version of the game, which is erroneous. Ranked should be its own separate thing.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby James2 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:08 am

JaguarJumps wrote:Ret didn't need a change.

^
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby Ezradekezra » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:19 am

JaguarJumps wrote:Ret didn't need a change.

These Reddit threads would beg to differ.

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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby JAF1970 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:21 am

The fact is, players are making me not want to play. Period.

There's a rule out there: if you don't protect the brand, someone will do it better and make you extinct.

There's too many hidden role/traitor games out there that could do it better.

The One Night series springs to mind. One round, it's over. Just a lot of arguing and accusations in a time limit.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby TheFluffyWaffleV2 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:32 am

JAF1970 wrote:The fact is, players are making me not want to play. Period.

There's a rule out there: if you don't protect the brand, someone will do it better and make you extinct.

There's too many hidden role/traitor games out there that could do it better.

The One Night series springs to mind. One round, it's over. Just a lot of arguing and accusations in a time limit.

Yeah this game has been going downhill for the past, like, year. But there are other games. Mindnight, Secret Hitler, and especially Throne of Lies are ones I can think of off the top of my head.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby PatrykSzczescie » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:06 pm

Well, from my point of view I never expected someone complaining about the ret rework. I guess bringing back the old ret would cause to more complaints than this one. Can you make a poll?
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JAF1970, please stop

Postby dolphina » Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:16 pm

JAF1970 wrote:Developers.

Tried out the new Retributionist ability. It's pretty bad. Can't Mayor. Can't Trapper. Am limited to roles that may or may not be useful.

It’s not bad, it's balancing this godforsaken game. Isn't that whatcha want? A fairer game?

I get why you changed the role -- people quit.

I had a dream that you read anything the devs post.

...Then I woke up.


So that hampers Medium and Ret.

But guess what? You gave less incentive for people to stay.

Actually, Ret was changed so that the game would be more balanced.

I'm sorry, but you have to do something people will hate -- follow my suggestion that quitting as Town when there's a Medium or Retributionist present, whether they know it or not, will cause a very long delay before playing again.

Guess what! In Ranked, ya lose elo. A lot of elo. In other modes, I'm pretty sure if you leave too much, you have to wait 5 minutes. And since everyone clearly has the attention span of a goldfish, they'll just log off, right?

Don't reward rage quitting. It sucks but that's Werewolf. Either remove both roles or enforce both roles so they're not useless. One or the other. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. This is from a pure game design viewpoint.

Stop comparing ToS to other games. There is a very loose Werewolf formula. Devs are allowed to tinker with the formula.

People WILL troll.
People WILL grief.
People WILL rage quit.
People WILL use anonymity to harass.

There's nothing you can do about it but address it. People will rage quit and play again quickly. Because they're impatient.

And, let's see... oh yes! The devs HAVE addressed this problem, and are working on it! How surprising, the devs are humans!

You know what World of Warcraft did for those long flights? They incorporated Bejeweled and Peggle that could be played while on those flights. There are tons of things you can do to keep people invested in the game.

Hey. Hey, bud. THIS ISN'T WORLD OF WARCRAFT.

Trying to make roles that are made to communicate with the dead less useful by not needing the dead is an oxymoron. Either dump the roles or punish quitters.

Ya clearly hate this game, so just dump it. I'm sure we'll enjoy your presence leaving.
It's Kokichi time now.


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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby OreoNyan » Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:49 am

I like the new ret... but why can’t it use trans? Something to do with it requiring three targets? It would be really cool and useful if ret could use trans...
Then again I didn’t mind the old ret either.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby Brilliand » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:18 am

OreoNyan wrote:I like the new ret... but why can’t it use trans? Something to do with it requiring three targets? It would be really cool and useful if ret could use trans...
Then again I didn’t mind the old ret either.


Yes, it's precisely because of requiring three targets. This idea was brought up in the thread where the recent Ret rework was decided on, but Achilles wasn't willing to expand the Ret rework into a UI rework to introduce the possibility of roles that can have three targets.
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Re: Human nature and quitting

Postby KAKERMAN23 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:31 am

As has been said numerous times here, the reason why ret was reworked was because it was unbalanced as hell. The change has nothing to do with people leaving when they die.
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