Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Put any feedback about the game here.

Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Dev321 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:52 am

After playing so many town of salem games, I have come to realize that mafia win percentage is just 1% and most of the elo you get is from being a townie. Even NE's and NK's have hard time winning unless the town isn't that dumb.

What I am saying that town is a bit stronger than mafia/ne/nk because they have very good roles like veteran, transporter, escort, vig, medium, spies who literally destroy you till end game and lynch you easily. Are you a mafia? No issues, there is a transporter who is going to block your kill and make you kill your own mafia. Attacking someone? No issues, that guy is a vet who kills your whole maf by just staying on one single alert. Oh a janitor claiming med? No issues, there is a real med who can confirm and lynch you!

Oh yeah sheriffs are the most annoying ones, they have the ability to out your whole mafia by showing this suspicious status. Imagine having trans + escort + mayor + jailor in one game combined, maf's winning chance will be like 1%. Nobody likes being mafia because of this reason, the only thing I request to TOS is that it kind of steps up the game of Mafia members and does not make the system give so many unique + good roles in just one ranked game whereas mafia has only 4 members who get rekt in just d2, d3 due to special investigation roles like sheriff or LO.

Thanks.
Dev321
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:33 am

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:24 am

First of all, I believe Mafia's win percentage is higher than 1%, NE's have it the easiest out of all evil factions (I can easily win as Jest/Exe in ranked games) and NK take the hardest hit. Your numbers are wrong, but you are indeed correct that evils should be stronger.

Though I do agree that evils in ranked are quite weak, it's a game of deception for evils, not a show of strength. The strongest asset to town is their votes, use that. Manipulate them with stronger fake claims that don't conflict with other Mafia members (the pain of having all Mafia claiming the ONE TI slot).

Remember, it's a game of deduction for Town. But it's a game of deception for evils.

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
Role Ideas
Husk - Neutral Evil
Enchantress - Neutral Evil
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:00 am
Location: Australia (AEST)

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:00 am

I believe that the same roles should not act differently in different modes. If one was to make Mafia/NK stronger (which I’d agree is warranted), they should be so in all game modes, not just Ranked.
Image
User avatar
MysticMismagius
Blackmailer
Blackmailer
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Descender » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:12 am

Mafia has like, a 40% winrate..
User avatar
Descender
Recruiter
Recruiter
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: FULLY DESCENDED

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:33 am

Google wrote:Mafia has like, a 40% winrate..

It's lower than that, but higher than 1% lmao

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
Role Ideas
Husk - Neutral Evil
Enchantress - Neutral Evil
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:00 am
Location: Australia (AEST)

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Descender » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:47 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
Google wrote:Mafia has like, a 40% winrate..

It's lower than that, but higher than 1% lmao

If it was 1%..
1000 games of 3/15 people being mafia, 1/5, 200
Out of 1000 games, 2 would be a mafia game
User avatar
Descender
Recruiter
Recruiter
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: FULLY DESCENDED

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby kyuss420 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:12 am

Its a numbers game 9v4v1v1. Of course the faction with 9 has a higher win rate than the faction with 4, which has a higher win rate than the NK with 1. NE doesnt count because, in most cases, they dont have to be last man standing to win.

The problem doesnt really lie in too many TIs tho. Basically maf has to gain majority to win. TIs cant do much if TKs are dead and majority is even.
RBing by escorts/jailor cause maf to need an extra night to gain majority, retributionists cause maf to need an extra night to gain majority (and also give town an extra vote next day). Then theres the TKs reducing mafia at night.. jailor, vig, vet. Even if TKs hit town they limit maf claim space. Then theres TP, causing maf to not kill, which is an extra day maf need.

So basically if they remove ret, escort, trans, mayor, sheriff from RT slots, maf would have more claim space, but more TKs and TPs would be spawned, so gaining majority would likely be just as hard.
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Mafioso
Mafioso
 
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:00 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:I believe that the same roles should not act differently in different modes. If one was to make Mafia/NK stronger (which I’d agree is warranted), they should be so in all game modes, not just Ranked.


This.
Boredfan1
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby kosmo16 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:38 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
Google wrote:Mafia has like, a 40% winrate..

It's lower than that, but higher than 1% lmao


I was tracking my win ratio in Season 1 (Elo above 2100). In 231 games I had these stats:
Town wins:104/138 75,36%
Mafia wins: 16/58 27,59%
Executioner wins: 3/6 50%
Jester wins: 1/6 16.66%
Witch wins: 2/6 33.33%
Serial Killer wins: 2/12 16.66%
Arsonist wins: 0/2 0%
Werewolf wins: 0/3 0%
Legacy Season Rank: Master
Season One Rank: Master
Season Two Rank: Diamond
Season Three Rank: Master
Season Four Rank: Master
User avatar
kosmo16
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:37 am

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:51 am

kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
Google wrote:Mafia has like, a 40% winrate..

It's lower than that, but higher than 1% lmao


I was tracking my win ratio in Season 1 (Elo above 2100). In 231 games I had these stats:
Town wins:104/138 75,36%
Mafia wins: 16/58 27,59%
Executioner wins: 3/6 50%
Jester wins: 1/6 16.66%
Witch wins: 2/6 33.33%
Serial Killer wins: 2/12 16.66%
Arsonist wins: 0/2 0%
Werewolf wins: 0/3 0%

Ah nice, percentages

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
Role Ideas
Husk - Neutral Evil
Enchantress - Neutral Evil
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:00 am
Location: Australia (AEST)

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby kosmo16 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:14 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
Google wrote:Mafia has like, a 40% winrate..

It's lower than that, but higher than 1% lmao


I was tracking my win ratio in Season 1 (Elo above 2100). In 231 games I had these stats:
Town wins:104/138 75,36%
Mafia wins: 16/58 27,59%
Executioner wins: 3/6 50%
Jester wins: 1/6 16.66%
Witch wins: 2/6 33.33%
Serial Killer wins: 2/12 16.66%
Arsonist wins: 0/2 0%
Werewolf wins: 0/3 0%

Ah nice, percentages

New one from this season:
Town wins:20/24 83.33%
Mafia wins: 6/15 40,00%
Executioner wins: 0/0 N/A
Jester wins: 0/2 0%
Witch wins: 0/0 N/A
Serial Killer wins: 0/2 0%
Arsonist wins: 0/1 0%
Werewolf wins: 0/1 0%

Updated 8 Dec
Last edited by kosmo16 on Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Legacy Season Rank: Master
Season One Rank: Master
Season Two Rank: Diamond
Season Three Rank: Master
Season Four Rank: Master
User avatar
kosmo16
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:37 am

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby MysticMismagius » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:54 pm

Wait, what data are you actually tracking here? I noticed that all the denominators are different, which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. I would imagine that Town and Mafia should have the same denominator, and the NEs/NKs should each add up to the same amount as the Town/Mafia, unless you’re tracking the data weirdly.
Image
User avatar
MysticMismagius
Blackmailer
Blackmailer
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby JacksonVirgo » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:55 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:Wait, what data are you actually tracking here? I noticed that all the denominators are different, which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. I would imagine that Town and Mafia should have the same denominator, and the NEs/NKs should each add up to the same amount as the Town/Mafia, unless you’re tracking the data weirdly.



Kosmo wrote:I was tracking my win ratio in Season 1 (Elo above 2100). In 231 games I had these stats:

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 20.07.20 AEST
Role Ideas
Husk - Neutral Evil
Enchantress - Neutral Evil
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:00 am
Location: Australia (AEST)

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby fwogcarf » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:35 pm

Bruh, just learn how to trick people ez
Spoiler: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M79vYZu-WIKrW0WQ0pCISBq66DeBfSir5T7RCuy0OWY/edit?usp=sharing
We are creators of our own future


We are supporters of forces against despair


We defend against the evils of the world


We are guardians, we are strong
User avatar
fwogcarf
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Boredfan1 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:19 pm

fwogcarf wrote:Bruh, just learn how to trick people ez


1: Easier said than done.

2: The town gets ridiculously lucky. MANY times I've been scum and there was no evidence of me being evil, no one even knew how to scum read yet I get hung.

3: The role is made to fail so it's even harder.
Boredfan1
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby kosmo16 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:05 am

Boredfan1 wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Bruh, just learn how to trick people ez


1: Easier said than done.

2: The town gets ridiculously lucky. MANY times I've been scum and there was no evidence of me being evil, no one even knew how to scum read yet I get hung.

3: The role is made to fail so it's even harder.


Maybe PoE?
Legacy Season Rank: Master
Season One Rank: Master
Season Two Rank: Diamond
Season Three Rank: Master
Season Four Rank: Master
User avatar
kosmo16
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:37 am

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Boredfan1 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:24 am

PoE?
Boredfan1
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Descender » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:30 am

Boredfan1 wrote:PoE?

Process of Elimination.
User avatar
Descender
Recruiter
Recruiter
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: FULLY DESCENDED

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Boredfan1 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:11 pm

kosmo16 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Bruh, just learn how to trick people ez


1: Easier said than done.

2: The town gets ridiculously lucky. MANY times I've been scum and there was no evidence of me being evil, no one even knew how to scum read yet I get hung.

3: The role is made to fail so it's even harder.


Maybe PoE?


I wish it was the process of elimination. Just the other day, I was mafia, I forget what role and the sheriff does the executioner day two bad strategy and gets me hung even though I claimed doc and gave a will, they didn't believe it for some reason even though executioners are an actual thing in that mode, all any. Shit like that happens so often. Of course there were many times I lost due to the process of elimination or I just made a bad play.
Boredfan1
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Joacgroso » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:31 pm

It's logical to lynch someone if a sheriff accuses him. Especially since claiming in all any isn't that relevant as there is unlimited claimspace. They could have lynched the sheriff instead of you, but leaving you both alive would be really stupid from town.
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
Also, support my suggestion about private lobbies!It would definitely increase the playerbase.
User avatar
Joacgroso
Arsonist
Arsonist
 
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:51 am

Boredfan1 wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Bruh, just learn how to trick people ez


1: Easier said than done.

2: The town gets ridiculously lucky. MANY times I've been scum and there was no evidence of me being evil, no one even knew how to scum read yet I get hung.

3: The role is made to fail so it's even harder.


Maybe PoE?


I wish it was the process of elimination. Just the other day, I was mafia, I forget what role and the sheriff does the executioner day two bad strategy and gets me hung even though I claimed doc and gave a will, they didn't believe it for some reason even though executioners are an actual thing in that mode, all any. Shit like that happens so often. Of course there were many times I lost due to the process of elimination or I just made a bad play.


did you ask for proof? (even tho a sheriff finding you sus is proof enough.) asking for proof = insta guilty. Always listen to the day 2 claim
goosegoosegoosegoosegoose
Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image Spoiler: Image
User avatar
kyuss420
Mafioso
Mafioso
 
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Im here

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Boredfan1 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:55 pm

kyuss420 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Bruh, just learn how to trick people ez


1: Easier said than done.

2: The town gets ridiculously lucky. MANY times I've been scum and there was no evidence of me being evil, no one even knew how to scum read yet I get hung.

3: The role is made to fail so it's even harder.


Maybe PoE?


I wish it was the process of elimination. Just the other day, I was mafia, I forget what role and the sheriff does the executioner day two bad strategy and gets me hung even though I claimed doc and gave a will, they didn't believe it for some reason even though executioners are an actual thing in that mode, all any. Shit like that happens so often. Of course there were many times I lost due to the process of elimination or I just made a bad play.


did you ask for proof? (even tho a sheriff finding you sus is proof enough.) asking for proof = insta guilty. Always listen to the day 2 claim


Please stop playing Town of Salem or only play classic. D2 sheriff claims are EXECUTIONER strategies. Seriously. He gave a will, yes but that doesn't mean he couldn't be exe. And BLINDLY listening to sheriff claims day two has lead to MANY townies getting lynched by town which is why it's idiotic.
Boredfan1
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby MysticMismagius » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:12 pm

On the same note, leaving them both alive is literally the worst option. ONE of them has to die, so you get concrete information on which one of them is a lying scumbag. If a Sheriff claim says someone is sus, outside of the rare chance of a Framer/HM happening to visit the accused, one of them is evil. One of them has to go.
Image
User avatar
MysticMismagius
Blackmailer
Blackmailer
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:14 pm

Besides, it was all any. It's not like there's any other way of finding evils, unless to want to random lynch. If you want to scumread you have to see who voted who and who defended who, and in order to do that someone has to be lynched.
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
Also, support my suggestion about private lobbies!It would definitely increase the playerbase.
User avatar
Joacgroso
Arsonist
Arsonist
 
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Make Mafia/NK Stronger In Ranked Games

Postby kosmo16 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:13 am

Boredfan1 wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
kosmo16 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Bruh, just learn how to trick people ez


1: Easier said than done.

2: The town gets ridiculously lucky. MANY times I've been scum and there was no evidence of me being evil, no one even knew how to scum read yet I get hung.

3: The role is made to fail so it's even harder.


Maybe PoE?


I wish it was the process of elimination. Just the other day, I was mafia, I forget what role and the sheriff does the executioner day two bad strategy and gets me hung even though I claimed doc and gave a will, they didn't believe it for some reason even though executioners are an actual thing in that mode, all any. Shit like that happens so often. Of course there were many times I lost due to the process of elimination or I just made a bad play.


did you ask for proof? (even tho a sheriff finding you sus is proof enough.) asking for proof = insta guilty. Always listen to the day 2 claim


Please stop playing Town of Salem or only play classic. D2 sheriff claims are EXECUTIONER strategies. Seriously. He gave a will, yes but that doesn't mean he couldn't be exe. And BLINDLY listening to sheriff claims day two has lead to MANY townies getting lynched by town which is why it's idiotic.


We talk about AA, not ranked. In AA, an accused guy get lynched (in Coven if guy is a Town it is even more likely that they will get lynched) very often. They would need to claim Transporter to avoid lynch. Maybe Ret.
Legacy Season Rank: Master
Season One Rank: Master
Season Two Rank: Diamond
Season Three Rank: Master
Season Four Rank: Master
User avatar
kosmo16
Vigilante
Vigilante
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:37 am

Next

Return to Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests