Remove the god forsaken trial system

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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Sonicle » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:07 pm

I don't really agree that harassment should be more of a focus than game-throwing. I got fed up myself once upon a time and started posting game-throwing reports before. Its nice having to know someone will eventually look at it.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby LeGr8stMeme » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:12 pm

Shyyster wrote:You want to have a bet? Go count up the number of valid forum GTing reports that have been closed for the this month up till today and I will do the same for my reports that are valid and let's see which medium is the best?


I'd love to, not that I don't believe you but curious myself, but I truly don't have the time. I read some forum reports if you back to pre-new change most of the GT ones were valid/handled. Ultimately at the end of the day reports have go through 20 days to never is unreasonable with this system. Someone can throw games for 20 days straight until they get their justice.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Shyyster » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:19 pm

LeGr8stMeme wrote: Ultimately at the end of the day reports have go through 20 days to never is unreasonable. Someone can throw games for 20 days straight until they get their justice.


You talking about before the rule change? F2P rules were better and actually punished for rulebreaking that majority of community wanted, like vet claiming jailor and alerting and not claiming on stand, which has changed with the move to P2P.

LeGr8stMeme wrote: Ultimately at the end of the day reports have go through 20 days to never is unreasonable. Someone can throw games for 20 days straight until they get their justice.


Yeah it's unreasonable, but nothing can be done about the state of Trial System accept more jurors joining and voting on reports they deem fit such as GTing or maybe with the upgrade of Trial System that is coming,.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby MysticMismagius » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:39 pm

Shyyster wrote:
LeGr8stMeme wrote: Ultimately at the end of the day reports have go through 20 days to never is unreasonable. Someone can throw games for 20 days straight until they get their justice.
You talking about before the rule change? F2P rules were better and actually punished for rulebreaking that majority of community wanted, like vet claiming jailor and alerting and not claiming on stand, which has changed with the move to P2P.
LeGr8stMeme wrote: Ultimately at the end of the day reports have go through 20 days to never is unreasonable. Someone can throw games for 20 days straight until they get their justice.
Yeah it's unreasonable, but nothing can be done about the state of Trial System accept more jurors joining and voting on reports they deem fit such as GTing or maybe with the upgrade of Trial System that is coming,.
Another thing that would help improve the state of Trial would be reworking the rules (and other things regarding the Trial System) so that reports feel less "useless" to the average player. More people are going to vote on reports if they feel like it's meaningful to do so, and with certain aspects of Trial System that sense of meaningfulness is greatly reduced.
Not that reports are useless, but when people say they are, I often see others believe them or at least start to doubt the effectiveness of reports. This is a problem because if the idea that reports are useless becomes prevalent enough, it will create a vicious cycle in which reports actually become useless because nobody will vote on them.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:54 am

Cheating reports do seem to be pretty much useless, since with the current state of the rules, those can only be guiltied in the very simplest of cases (basically just direct admissions).

Gamethrowing reports unfortunately have a reverse problem, in which many players will call not following the meta or simply playing poorly "gamethrowing". This also leads to the perception that reports are useless, but it's the the people making the reports that need to be corrected in this case.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby KatiyaKramer » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:11 am

Brilliand wrote:Cheating reports do seem to be pretty much useless, since with the current state of the rules, those can only be guiltied in the very simplest of cases (basically just direct admissions).

Gamethrowing reports unfortunately have a reverse problem, in which many players will call not following the meta or simply playing poorly "gamethrowing". This also leads to the perception that reports are useless, but it's the the people making the reports that need to be corrected in this case.

Cheating was a category that didn't even change if I recall from F2P to P2P rules. It covers admission, which is evidence, we cannot punish people without some sort of concrete evidence of cheating, and admission typically covers that (although if things look super suspicious, like a vigilante spamming all the mafia on Day 1 correctly, that might be guiltied for cheating), and it also covers use of another language in game, like speaking German, French, Russian, Japanese, etc in the English server.

Gamethrowing reports, as Shyy said, were extremely dumbed down after the jump to P2P rules. The rule about not claiming on the stand or in jail was removed, the new rule about being a vet, calling for TP/LO N1 and alerting was removed, the Syanna rule (Doing the same stupid strat with massive negative results showing over a long history of playing) was removed. It's basically all "If you kill or out your teammates" at this point, but the devs wanted to make it more "fair" for people who are paying money for actual accounts.

But as these reports weren't really made public knowledge, there are going to be tons of people still reporting for those old reasons, even though they aren't valid. Same with people who report D1 leavers. We cannot punish people for leaving anymore unless they specifically say in chat something along the lines of, "This game sucks, I'm out" and leave, and that goes under GT now.

On a side note, it would be nice if people could perhaps do some research into what they are bashing before making assumptions and going from there. Or if they are stuck on a certain mindset, perhaps have some firm evidence to back it up, like Shyy did with his side.

Also, telling people to die IRL should never be seen as acceptable behavior on an online game. I've never agreed with doing so and I will never agree with doing so. There are times you can get angry and tell someone to f off, but going so far as to telling someone to die or kill themselves is 50 steps too far. Considering what has happened to a certain YouTuber this last week, people need to be more mindful that there are people on the internet who suffer from mental illnesses.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby SantanaTheSmall » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:43 pm

I think everyone can agree that telling someone to die irl is going too far.

However, there are many instances where I believe speech not nearly as bad as gamethrowing. I have schizophrenia and attempted suicide three times.

Someone made a post on Reddit calling for a player to be banned because the player half joked about the Youtuber’s means of dying (saying something like “water doesn’t protect fall damage”).

I couldn’t care less about that, and I couldn’t care less if someone joked about my death in such a way. I get told to take my meds all the time in this game and I don’t report them because that’s silly.

Would those two instances be considered HS/H?
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Shyyster » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:09 pm

SantanaTheSmall wrote:
However, there are many instances where I believe speech not nearly as bad as gamethrowing.


Nobody is arguing that every instance of HS/H is bad as GTing, but in general HS/H ruins the game when you have players being racist, sexist, or telling others to kill themselves. Now if you disagree with that thats your opinion but nobody should be subjected to any of that kind of talk while playing a video game.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby shapesifter13 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:00 pm

Forum reports might have been dealt with "faster", but its not very effective. It takes more time to deal with a forum report, and there is a much higher chance of things being taken out of context/being altered than an in game report. In game reports save a log of the game that can't be doctored, and will have most, if not all, information someone needs to properly judge a report.

Yes GT and cheating reports probably get handled less than they should, but I don't think people would be happy unless someone they report was dealt with in 10 seconds. I get emails fairly often about someone saying they reported X user in their last game and they are still playing. Also when forum reports were handled there was a much lower volume of them. This is because it is way more annoying to make a forum report. This can be good as people are less likely to waste time making a false forum report, but it also meant that some people just never thought the time needed to report was worth it. It is way easier to click a couple buttons in game and a report is made.

If Trial System was abolished and we went back to forum reports only, then I guarantee you that less players would be punished for breaking the rules.

Trial system is doing a lot of work, it is just less obvious than going to the forum reports page and seeing some reports being handled.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Brilliand » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:26 pm

shapesifter13 wrote:Trial system is doing a lot of work, it is just less obvious than going to the forum reports page and seeing some reports being handled.


Searchability of the trial system report history would be a good thing imo.

Make it as easy to see what the trial system is doing as what the forum reports section was doing.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Shyyster » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:33 am

Brilliand wrote:
shapesifter13 wrote:Trial system is doing a lot of work, it is just less obvious than going to the forum reports page and seeing some reports being handled.


Searchability of the trial system report history would be a good thing imo.

Make it as easy to see what the trial system is doing as what the forum reports section was doing.


You can already do this in a way if you join the Trial discord server or ToS community discord server, and requesting other player's reports or checking to see if X player is suspended or not.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Villagerlover » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:31 am

How about no.
I'd rather have a system to deal with it than to not have one at all. Your title is just flat out dumb.

Everyone has to deal with gamethrowers, you're not alone. But reports are not worthless!
Yes, the reporting system is just slow sometimes. Real humans who need breaks and time to themselves are the ones handling your reports, not a robot. You should consider that they're being handled by volunteer staff as well.

Just be patient...
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Koleszar » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:53 am

Shyyster wrote:As blunt as this may sound, but it's the truth. Trial System isn't curated to fit what you personally care about and don't care about.

Goodbye.


Same here, I don't care if someome made me a "Fine Black Gentleman" or "idiot" or said to me to go kill myself. First of all it's a game, and it's a roleplay game, so noone should get offended by the racist names or racist words or some curses...like c'mon, as someone said, if you care more about words, go play VR and talk to other dudes, not here. The Trial System should be only for gamethrowers and bugs and so on, not for offended kids who are grounded for saying curses.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby KatiyaKramer » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:47 pm

Koleszar wrote:
Shyyster wrote:As blunt as this may sound, but it's the truth. Trial System isn't curated to fit what you personally care about and don't care about.

Goodbye.


Same here, I don't care if someome made me a "Fine Black Gentleman" or "idiot" or said to me to go kill myself. First of all it's a game, and it's a roleplay game, so noone should get offended by the racist names or racist words or some curses...like c'mon, as someone said, if you care more about words, go play VR and talk to other dudes, not here. The Trial System should be only for gamethrowers and bugs and so on, not for offended kids who are grounded for saying curses.

Racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, pedophilia, etc...all have no place in this game, or any game on the internet. And BMG doesn't want to give the vibe that they tolerate such things, especially in the world we live in today. It's unacceptable behavior.

It is also completely unacceptable for any player to get angry enough to tell another person, whom they have never met, to go kill themselves in real life.

People can say, "Oh, everyone is a snowflake!" all they want, but in reality, it's more about being a decent human being and not a disrespectful troll.

Also, what do "bugs" have to do with Trial System? Why should Trial handle bugs?
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby SpiritWolfLord » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:27 pm

The problem is less to do with the trial system (though I do think it needs improvement), but more to do with the current rules. Before it was p2p, people could make fake accounts, so the rules were a bit more strict. But people getting banned were banned for reasonable reasons. Now that it is p2p, the devs don't want to ban as few people as possible. Judges can't guilty an obvious gamethrower because they don't admit to it. Same with leavers, including people who leave EVERY time they get mafia and ONlY when they get mafia. By using common sense, you can tell that it was on purpose, but since you can't actually prove it, you aren't allowed to guilty. That's why no one does gamethrowing reports, because the rules just aren't there for it. While I do admit some of the supposed throwers are likely just dumb, many of the obvious ones are technically still abiding by the rules. The rules really need a major overhaul.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby kyuss420 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:44 am

well I just spent an hour wading through gamethrowing reports, 11 innoed and 1 guiltied. As I said before, maybe if people stopped hitting ''report'' every time they got salty cos someone made a dumb play, I might have found 12 guilty reports, and justice would be dealt to people faster. Instead we have to waste our efforts wading through a ton of salt.

Funniest of them was a game in which 3 people from opposite factions were whispering each other and killing off people without the theme name,(SK, maf and Lookout) the report was on the 4th player with the theme name who was solo medusa and claimed survivor and wasnt whispered to by any of the other 3.

Another, even had the description ''made the play that made town go from 50/50 chance of winning to 0 chance of winning''. 2 maf and 3 town voted up the guy. He was reported for guiltying the guy with maf. Sure it was a dumb move that lost the game, but its not a gamethrow
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby ChemicalKing » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:30 pm

I have to agree. So many decent players get permabanned because of this nonsense policy. You are spot on with your opinion about "harassment".

The real problem in games is gamethrowers. These are the people who should be permabanned. A permaban should not even exist for any other offense, no matter how many offenses there are.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby SantanaTheSmall » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:11 pm

ChemicalKing wrote:I have to agree. So many decent players get permabanned because of this nonsense policy. You are spot on with your opinion about "harassment".

The real problem in games is gamethrowers. These are the people who should be permabanned. A permaban should not even exist for any other offense, no matter how many offenses there are.


While I agree that gamethrowing is the worst, I think telling someone to kill themselves is just as bad.

I personally don’t care about nasty speech as much as others here, but there is a clear line and that crosses it.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Shyyster » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:12 pm

ChemicalKing wrote:I have to agree. So many decent players get permabanned because of this nonsense policy. You are spot on with your opinion about "harassment".

The real problem in games is gamethrowers. These are the people who should be permabanned. A permaban should not even exist for any other offense, no matter how many offenses there are.


You have 3 guilty HS/H reports of you calling people fag/faggots.

1 guilty HS/H report for the same reason and telling others to slit their throats.

You're exactly the type of player why permabans should exist for. No idea how you even got 4 chances while using homophobic slurs since using them lands people a permaban on their first punishment.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby ChemicalKing » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:35 pm

Yes, those are all false as they don't fall under HS or H at all. Either that or BMG classifies that incorrectly.

Those other players should have easily been banned along with me or on their own as their offenses actually affected the gameplay, and if my behavior was bad theirs was similar.

No, I'm not. My so-called offenses have absolutely nothing to do with and have little effect on the game, if any. I got 4 chances because it wasn't hate speech. Hence why the trial system is terrible.

Nice job skewing the conversation to talk about me though. Adding absolutely nothing and going completely off topic. You completely failed to address anything valid or making a cogent point. How nice for you.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Shyyster » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:07 pm

ChemicalKing wrote:Yes, those are all false as they don't fall under HS or H at all. Either that or BMG classifies that incorrectly.


LOL, if those reports were false then you wouldn't had earned a single suspension in the first place and they actually do follow under the 2nd rule of HS/H which is "Offensive Language"

ToS Rules

Hate Speech/Harassment (aka HS/H)

This is the most serious offense in ToS and can warrant a direct permaban. This category can really be broken down into 3 parts: Attacks on a person, offensive language, and other
.
1.Attacks/threats on a person or place.
2.Offensive Language<-the rule of HS/H you broke.
3.Other
a."Money shaming" / skin shaming: targeting someone because of their cosmetics.
b.Posting personal information (including addresses, phone numbers, emails).
c.Inciting false reports against another player.
d.Posting links of any kind.

Offensive Language

a. Racism / country shaming / language shaming, religious intolerance, intolerance to sexual orientations (homophobia, transphobia, etc.), sexism, and general bigotry.
b. Evading the hard filter, especially to say a slur
b1.See filtered list created by Shelboo: Shelboo's tested list.
b2.One time use of hard-filtered words is a suspension, but continued use will result in a permanent ban. Except in names. See IU.
c.Repeatedly and blatantly evading the soft filter.
c1.If you think a word is filtered, it probably is.
d.References/chat that mocks tragedies such as terrorist attacks, mass shootings, or any event where multiple people died.
e.References to crimes against children (pedophilia[permaban], child beating, child slavery, etc.).
f.Inappropriate sexual chat during the game, including in whispers.





Those other players should have easily been banned along with me or on their own as their offenses actually affected the gameplay, and if my behavior was bad theirs was similar.


Playing badly will never get people banned, and how stupid would it be for a game company to ban bad players? That just asking for nobody to play your game.

No, I'm not. My so-called offenses have absolutely nothing to do with and have little effect on the game, if any. I got 4 chances because it wasn't hate speech. Hence why the trial system is terrible.


No idea why you got 4 chances with how you acted in your games. Maybe Judges were being lenient and thought you would learn your lesson after a suspension to cut out your toxic behavior. Look like they were wrong though.

Nice job skewing the conversation to talk about me though. Adding absolutely nothing and going completely off topic. You completely failed to address anything valid or making a cogent point. How nice for you.


If you looked through this thread, I already added more than enough to the conversation. I just commented because I found it hilarious that someone who is permabanned for 4 guilty HS/H would comment on this when you're a perfect case example of why HS/H is punished in this community, with you throwing homophobic slurs and telling others to slit their throats.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby ChemicalKing » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:24 pm

Not true. The way the trial system works is the jurors can vote anyway they want for any reason, but that wasn’t what I was saying anyway. “Offensive language” isn’t harassment. If you want to say it qualifies as “hate speech”, fine I guess, but the point of this thread is that speech doesn’t affect the game at all.

So you’d rather they ban all the good players who suffer and get frustrated from the sheer amount of bad players there are ruining games? I’m not saying ban bad players simply for being bad, but when you bad good players for simplistic reasons that will leave the game with a smaller player base and hurt new players’ experiences.

It’s almost like you just completely ignored my point here. Why I’m even engaging you when you show only the slightest bit of intrigue is beyond me, but your points are just as valid as anyone else’s. I got more chances because it was clear that my behavior wasn’t toxic and I was in a game with exceptionally terrible people guilty of their own offenses. The only reason I have a ban now is because of the terrible 4 strike rule. I have played hundreds, if not thousands, of games. I have maybe somewhere between 7 and 8 reports.

Nobody cares you what you find hilarious. Provide something worthwhile or stop talking. Nobody cares what you think is a perfect example of anything. Use reasoning and logic in your posts, not emotion. I can’t believe I need to tell you how to be taken seriously, but here we are. HS/H should be punished I agree with you. But only when it’s actually valid and never with a permaban. This is the discussion we’re having. Join it and stop acting like you have no idea what words are.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Shyyster » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:56 pm

ChemicalKing wrote:Not true. The way the trial system works is the jurors can vote anyway they want for any reason, but that wasn’t what I was saying anyway.


Yeah that's true, but even if jurors voted however they wanted still need to be a clear majority to push reports up to Judges who will have final say on whether a report is guilty or not.

“Offensive language” isn’t harassment. If you want to say it qualifies as “hate speech”, fine I guess, but the point of this thread is that speech doesn’t affect the game at all.


Speech that doesn't affect the game, like calling someone dumb, retard(once or twice), stupid, bad, and other minor words doesn't get punished.

Speech such as yours and what I listed in the rules always affect the gameplay and players, which result in punishment.

So you’d rather they ban all the good players who suffer and get frustrated from the sheer amount of bad players there are ruining games?


If they're going around calling other players homophobic slurs and telling them to kill themselves? YES!

Like I really don't understand people like yourself point of view when it comes to this kind of conversation. Do you see NBA/NFL/Hockey players going around calling each other fags,Fine Black Gentleman, and telling another player to kill themselves? Hell no, so why do you think people that play an online game should get a free pass to be as toxic as they want?

I got more chances because it was clear that my behavior wasn’t toxic and I was in a game with exceptionally terrible people guilty of their own offenses. The only reason I have a ban now is because of the terrible 4 strike rule. I have played hundreds, if not thousands, of games. I have maybe somewhere between 7 and 8 reports.


Lol'd, you have no idea why you gotten 4 chances just like I have no idea. To say your behavior wasn't toxic is utter nonsense since jurors and Judges judged your reports as GUILTY and deserving of a punishment.

You have played 336 games and gotten reported 14 times(12 HS/H reports,1 leaving, and 1 gamethrowing report).

Nobody cares you what you find hilarious. Provide something worthwhile or stop talking. Nobody cares what you think is a perfect example of anything. Use reasoning and logic in your posts, not emotion.


I used reasoning and logic??? Pointing out you received 4 HS/H punishments for using clear toxic behavior that resulted in the gameplay being affected and how HS/H punishments are deserving.

HS/H should be punished I agree with you. But only when it’s actually valid and never with a permaban. This is the discussion we’re having. Join it and stop acting like you have no idea what words are.


Please give me examples of valid HS/H then. Anyone would say that calling other people fags and telling other players to slit their throats is valid reasons for punishing someone for HS/H.

And naa this not really a discussion, just you making excuses.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby ChemicalKing » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:06 am

That is true, but that's still only a handful of people deciding the fate of one report. Not exactly the biggest mandate.

No. You don't get to have it both ways. Either all speech does not effect the game or none of it does. Speech is speech; words only hurt you if you let them.

You are putting speech above actions right now. This game usually matches you up with the same players maybe once every couple of weeks, I'd rather continuously get someone who says a few words that at the end of the day really don't mean anything because we don't know each other personally than someone who consistently ruins others' chances of winning and the overall spirit of the game.

I don't understand your point of view when it comes to this conversation. You actually admitted to mocking the entire thing. No, actually you see real athletes going around murdering and raping and facing real penalties for it. You don't hear about athletes saying things like these because it does not actually matter, it does not actually hurt anyone and takes spotlight away from people who are doing real harm. Your definition of toxic clearly needs some work and you should work on your rhetorical questions too because you assumed the wrong answer.

I have a better idea than you. You act like pulling up a persons' profile means anything whatsoever, I'm really not sure why you pulled mine, it seems like you just wanted to rant about something and chose me for no reason, plenty of other people have commented. No, it isn't utter nonsense, my play style isn't toxic, "jurors" and "judges" don't really deserve those names because there is no trial here. Neither side really gets to present a case. In all honesty, a player may have no idea that they were even reported until they get a suspension or ban notice. You could go weeks without even being affected by it. Okay, not sure why you posted that statistic but let's address it. Of those 14, only 4 were found guilty (erroneously or otherwise). Some of those were even all from the same game. The leaving and gamethrowing ones are invalid, or barely valid at best. I don't gamethrow, that one was obviously a lie which is why it wasn't found guilty.

Okay, you're right. What I meant to say was use only reasoning and logic. You let some emotion slip in there. Again, not toxic behavior (really beating a dead horse here), again did not affect the game at all (you have not even tried to illustrate how this is the case), and I already agreed that some HS/H reports are deserving but people in this community get the definitions of those terms laughably wrong.

Valid harassment is going after someone every single time you are in a game with them, whether that be to kill them or what have you. Hate speech is terms that are unambiguously targeting a group (i.e. the n word). "Fag" does not qualify because it isn't always used to refer to gay people. You can tell it isn't being used that way here because of the context. First, I'm gay myself (not that we can't be homophobic, but just thought I'd share), and, second, this game has nothing to do with sexuality. There is absolutely no way for me to know what someone's sexual orientation is and there is no reason for me to know because it does not matter. What evidence would I be using to call them gay? Nothing, it's a preposterous notion. Not anyone, you and a few other people at least, but not just anyone.

You also don't know what the word "excuses" means. There is no such thing as an "excuse" when it comes to actions. You are excused from meetings, not actions. You also don't know what a discussion is. Maybe study up on these before trying to use them. This is a discussion. A discussion is when two parties (i.e. me and you) exchange ideas. I hate to break it to you, but, yeah, that's happening here.
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Re: Remove the god forsaken trial system

Postby Flavorable » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:35 am

ChemicalKing wrote:What evidence would I be using to call them gay? Nothing, it's a preposterous notion.

You're not calling them gay, you're calling them an extremely hateful slur. It might not hurt YOU, but it hurts other people. And contrary to what you obviously believe: The things that are so hateful to other people in REAL life are much more important to be punished than people stepping on your toes in a GAME, causing you to lose.
And what Shyyster is pointing is, is the absolute ridiculousness that you really think anyone should agree that it's okay to tell people a horrible slur and that they should kill themselves, just because they ruined your game.

I doubt you really think that the Devs should worry more about someone stepping on your toes, than they should about actual problems. Cause if you do, you're downright delusional.
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Now as for the topic at hand: Would removing hatespeech/harassment reports change anything for gamethrowing reports? No.
People will still file invalid reports. People will still basically want everyone banned until they're left with like 15-30 people they actually like. People will still complain about gamethrowing. Why? Cause that's what people do. We can't win? We blame it on someone else, whether righteously or not. We can't win? Blame it on that kid that has like 100 games and doesn't really know what he's doing yet. E.t.c.

The only improvement Trial System needs in this regard, is the ability to suspend people if they keep filing reports like "was LO but wasn't on Jailor" or "Was Vigi and shot me for no reason". Cause whether you like it or not, THAT's the real problem here.
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