Roles in VLDR / Thoughts and Creation

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Roles in VLDR / Thoughts and Creation

Postby Metrion » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:13 pm

Foreword

I'll start off by saying this is more or less an opinion piece than something actual factual. VLDR is defined by the spirit of the game and some very base mechanics. The fact it isn't a rigid structure which is proven every time someone decides to host a game. As well I wouldn't call myself an expert, just a pioneer. We all see VLDR through our own lense, this is mine.

Thoughts on the concept of roles

Roles are necessary. VLDR in my mind is all about playing the hand you are dealt with (and a healthy dash of RP). I draw a connection to Poker. If roles don't exist than another form of competition and friction amongst the players has to be present. Players should never be expected to make their own conflict and intrigue when it's more profitable and easy for them to all simply ally and escape alive. This leads to games which have potential to be dull, uninteresting, and really goes against the host's duties to make the game fun instead of something to salvage.

VLDR is also an odd beast in it's a game where it isn't out of place for everyone to win through a chain of events. Theoretically 100% wins can happen and that's fine. VLDR doesn't care about winning, it cares about the player experience and the goal of winning is just a means to an end. So long as the game has conflict or can keep people's interest than a game has no target % of winners or losers.

Roles give agency, roles are a foundation to build upon for a player. Roles are the first thing a player sees when they start their interaction with the game and shape the rest of it for them.

Role creation tips

Think about what you want the role to invoke; is it martial artist, a regular artist, someone with a mysterious ability, a killer, or idealist? Sometimes thinking of a name first can give you a direction. Then ask what makes this role different from an Average Joe? What abilities do they have and what goal are they working towards that allows them to take advantage of their skills or make the game interesting? When it's all boiled down each role should have a reason for someone to want to play as them.

Remember that win conditions make a role harder or easier than the base win condition; escape. Killers have to be stronger roles on average in order to actually kill. Whether that strength comes from stats, abilities and/or items is up to you. Generally the gap between the strongest and weakest role shouldn't be large, but the gap between the strongest and weakest role in certain scenarios can be. At the end of the day strength is hard to objectify but is important to try and gauge.

Stats are a newer addition to VLDR and they're very crucial in separating roles from another. Stats in most cases should be positive in order for the role to feel useful. It is ill-advised to give a character all negative combat stats (STR, DEX, CON). If you give someone a 4 or 5 in a stat, negative or not, then it's a main feature of their role, and you should have a reason to do so. Anything between the 2 and -2 is within normal human averages. Leaving 3s s an outlier of important but not completely specialized. Characters with lots of numbers on the ends of the spectrum (particularly negatives and in the broader stats like STR and DEX) can restrict or over incentivize what a player can do, and close of a lot of options. That's bad for the player experience.

For a criminally, overly, basic guideline a role should have 7-9 points.
  • Stats are +1 point each
  • Abilities are +2 points
  • Adept/Inept +2/-2
  • Harder win con is -2
  • Easier win con is +1.

Remember to make roles outside of a vacuum. Players are going to interact, plan and prepare around how the game will work. Balance both the numbers and powers of the evil, good and those in-between. You may not have to pay too much attention to it, but be aware of how one role might counter another or synergize.

Finally, if you think an idea of role is going to be fun or interesting. Then that's probably a gauge for a good role and a good starting place. Don't be afraid to work off of other's ideas or use roles from the past, old standbys are called that for a reason.

Closing

One of the things that excite me when playing VLDR is receiving a role card, reading whatever the host has cooked up or given to me, and imagining what I'm going to do and what my character is going to be. I think it's one of the most important aspects of the game and is critical to get right. Do you agree? Do you have any experience you'd wish to pass on, or any roles you particularly admire?
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Re: Roles in VLDR / Thoughts and Creation

Postby Arcthurus » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:10 pm

Metrion wrote:Remember to make roles outside of a vacuum. Players are going to interact, plan and prepare around how the game will work. Balance both the numbers and powers of the evil, good and those in-between. You may not have to pay too much attention to it, but be aware of how one role might counter another or synergize.


Can you give some past examples of these kinds of role interactions? Like how roles cooperated / countered with another.
And some balance decisions you took because of how the rest of the game looked would be interesting to see too. For example, abilities you removed / added from the first role you made because of how the other ones ended up looking.


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Re: Roles in VLDR / Thoughts and Creation

Postby Metrion » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:16 pm

Acrobat from TFW was changed to be Acrobat because the map featured jumping as a means of travel. The first role for TFW was Arcanist, which was already a role, and it's foil was the second role; Dreamer. I then ironed out the next four (Weapons Master, Intruder, Morphling, Rider). When I make a game typically the first roles I'm making until I have to think wont change drastically. If you look at the full list you can see Drunken Master is a foil to Weapon's Master and Guardian to Intruder.

In TFW there is no "killer". Instead Reaper exists and is a role I really liked making. Now for a role like that to actually be servicable I had to make sure there were more players inclined to do bad things for Reaper to then act. Originally Weapons Master's wincon was just escape or something good leaning, but I changed to be the half and half wincon to promote more violence. Intruder having an easy and inticing evil wincon also was deliberate. Both of these played into Reaper.

In TIT you can see some more basic examples. The killer wields an axe, so a protector role has a vest they can give out. The Cutpurse wants to win with the killer and can avoid melee easily which is how the killer kills. A lot of the utility rooms played into the fact that Arcanist could use theme remotely.

Like I said I don't actually pay a lot of attention. Probably an example of me not changing something when I should have is Jailor randomly having a "you don't die via game related deaths for the first time" and then having a role that wants to kill through BP. In a vaccuum both fine but out that's unfair to the Hacker if they use their limit use ability and have it be snubbed out because of something seemingly random.
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Re: Roles in VLDR / Thoughts and Creation

Postby Arcthurus » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:21 pm

I can see how Intruder and Guardian are opposites, one with a goal oriented towards betrayal and the other towards allying. Not sure I understand why Drunken Master foils Weapon Master though, is it the alternative goal too?

Do you look at other roles as well when deciding on stats, or do you just "measure" the power of the abilities+wincon of the role? I imagine you come up with those two before thinking of stats.


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Re: Roles in VLDR / Thoughts and Creation

Postby Metrion » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:29 am

Arcthurus wrote:I can see how Intruder and Guardian are opposites, one with a goal oriented towards betrayal and the other towards allying. Not sure I understand why Drunken Master foils Weapon Master though, is it the alternative goal too?

Do you look at other roles as well when deciding on stats, or do you just "measure" the power of the abilities+wincon of the role? I imagine you come up with those two before thinking of stats.


It's because they are opposites in terms of combat where one wants to be using weapons, and the other does not. Their goals are also somewhat in contention.

Sometimes I do stats first if I'm thinking of a role, but I'll usually edit them minorly after I'm done that role. I don't really pay attention to the other roles. They all shouldn't have similar or the same stats. Beyond that unless you have a role who's really good at something stat wise it doesn't typically alter any other role in a way you wouldn't have expected in the first place.
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