SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Old Role Ideas

SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Postby S0meguyyoukilled » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:10 pm

Name: Singer

Alignment: Mafia Support

Attributes:

* Turns to a Mafioso if there are no capable killing roles.

Abilities:

* Choose any person (excluding yourself) to sing a specific song genre

Goal: Kill anyone who will not submit to the mafia

Wins with: Mafia's standards

Special Attribute:

* Detection Immune
* Unique Role

- Investigative Results -

Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious
Investigator: Your target is either an Escort, Transporter, Consort, Hypnotist, or Singer
Consigliere/Witch: Your target is a famous star who sings for the public, they must be a Singer.

Additional Information (Regarding how the role works)

You can only sing a song genre once for 1 person.

You either sing:

Jazz
(Effects on a non-mafia)
They'll lose their focus on their action (The results of their action, and possible actions done by other players to the target will not be revealed.)

(Effects on a mafia) (Debatable if this should also be changed)
They'll be immune to roleblocks and witch control

Country
(Effects on a non-mafia) (Also need Suggestion)
They'll receive a random event messege (e.g. "Someone threatened to reveal your secrets, you are blackmailed." Even though they aren't) (I suggest that only some specific event messeges would be given)

(Effects on a mafia)
Both of you will swap investigative results for 2 straight nights (this will ensure anyone who suspets your teammate to be mafia, and be inspected by a sheriff, or investigator will look innocent as you're detection immune)

Classical
(Effects on a non-mafia) (Needs to be changed also)
They'll visit themselves (they will not get a notification that they visited themselves)

(Effects on a mafia)
They will be informed of everyone who visited them that night (Sheriff, and Escort both visit your target. Your target receives the names of both the Sheriff, and Escort.)

The innate purpose of the role is to cloak, and patch up the risks of the mafia getting caught, their playstyle is to have a widespread of choices to fit a specific situation, while weighing the risks, as you have limited uses, this role may resemble the term "Opportunity Cost." thanks to the person who help me with finding greater depth with this role (I posted this role first on the fandom) This role may not be fun but it sure will help the mafia from delaying the town from finding them without really making the mafia OP.

I've also wanted to ask you if this role should be in Mafia Deception.

The ability names don't really mean anything
Last edited by Flake on Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:36 am, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: Please do not bump your thread until 5 days has passed since your last post (given you are the last post).
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Re: SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Postby BasicFourLife » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:53 am

1. No other Mafia role should be Detection Immune. Imagine a Godfather, SInger and Arsonist all in one game. Sheriff becomes practically useless. Sheriff isn't even that strong, it does not need Detection Immunity.
2. The same thing goes for Role Block Immunity. Only Consort has Role Block Immunity to avoid paradoxes, otherwise no other Mafia role should have it. It makes the Escort too weak.
3. No other Mafia has Control Immunity, overall why does this role need so many immunites. They should only be used when they are completely unnecessary to a role, otherwise you should avoid giving Mafia roles them.
4.1. Jazz (Non-Mafia) is basically a stronger role block, or did I not understand this ability clearly.
4.2. Jazz (Mafia) refer to point 3. Also this role becomes bastard as in this ability is useless without role blockers and Witches.
4.3. Country (Non-Mafia) = RNG. Also we already have Hypnotist, js.
4.4. Country (Mafia), Mafia is an aggressive faction not a defensive now- Mafia roles shouldn't be able to be protected from being badly and having TIs check you.
4.5. Classical (Non-Mafia), a stronger role block making your target not be able to use their ability on someone and can cause confusion and fake results.
4.6. Classical (Mafia), unnecessary.

The innate purpose of the role is to cloak, and patch up the risks of the mafia getting caught, their playstyle is to have a widespread of choices to fit a specific situation, while weighing the risks, as you have limited uses, this role may resemble the term "Opportunity Cost."

That is not Mafia's playstyle. Mafia shouldn't be able to hide or prevent emselves from being caught.

This role is a much stronger Consort, and too complex to implement.
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Re: SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Postby S0meguyyoukilled » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:53 am

Answers to your questions:

1. I decided to give it detection immunity to compliment it's ability (check country effect on mafia) Since it can swap investigative results to other mafia members but it's not too OP since like I already wrote you can only use it once on a mafia, so a lucky sheriff would still find other mafia members, although It's sad that sheriff almost always has to suffer from this.
2. Hmmm.... Maybe you're right It is quite unnecessary, I'll remove it.
3. Well if I remove the Control Immune then witch would just roleblock it then, hmmm... since you still have to specifically choose a genre to sing, and witch can't do that so I guess It'll just roleblock it ok I'll remove it too
4.1 It doesn't roleblock the target just remove the result of their action and other's action towards yur target (Example. Your target is A, A is an Escort and he/she wanted to rb B, and A was also C's target a Blackmailer, what happens then would = A gets a notification that they listened to the Singer's singing and was distracted (NOT RB PEOPLE) A doesn't received the notification of whether they were able to successfully rb B, and A also won't get the message that notifies them of being blackmailed. The next morning A is surprised to see that he/she is actually blackmailed. (It won't do anything actually on a non visiting role unless they were attacked/rbed/witch they won't get the messege.) I hope you understand what I just wrote.
4.2 Well it will be useless but that's why the role has a wide array of ability to use.
4.3 Right. Ummm I guess I should think of another ability to replace that I literally forgot that Hypnotist has that ability.
4.4 Well I wouldn't say they're really played defensive but that's why they're on the Mafia Support alignment they help mafia in any way they an possibly can.
4.5 Well If you have any suggestions to change this ability but I don't want to remove all of it especially the one that they won't get notified of your action
4.6 I wouldn't say it's unnecessary, why cause you only get to use this once, but It's quite useful you just have to time your abilities right

It's not necessarily a stronger consort since it has only one uses to each ability. But I do thank you for your reply I can finally narrow down what I'll change to this role

Question: I thought that being detection Immune for a mafia is ok as long as it's balanced, and doesn't change the whole game completely. Am I wrong?
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Re: SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Postby BasicFourLife » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:02 am

S0meguyyoukilled wrote:Answers to your questions:

1. I decided to give it detection immunity to compliment it's ability (check country effect on mafia) Since it can swap investigative results to other mafia members but it's not too OP since like I already wrote you can only use it once on a mafia, so a lucky sheriff would still find other mafia members, although It's sad that sheriff almost always has to suffer from this.
2. Hmmm.... Maybe you're right It is quite unnecessary, I'll remove it.
3. Well if I remove the Control Immune then witch would just roleblock it then, hmmm... since you still have to specifically choose a genre to sing, and witch can't do that so I guess It'll just roleblock it ok I'll remove it too
4.1 It doesn't roleblock the target just remove the result of their action and other's action towards yur target (Example. Your target is A, A is an Escort and he/she wanted to rb B, and A was also C's target a Blackmailer, what happens then would = A gets a notification that they listened to the Singer's singing and was distracted (NOT RB PEOPLE) A doesn't received the notification of whether they were able to successfully rb B, and A also won't get the message that notifies them of being blackmailed. The next morning A is surprised to see that he/she is actually blackmailed. (It won't do anything actually on a non visiting role unless they were attacked/rbed/witch they won't get the messege.) I hope you understand what I just wrote.
4.2 Well it will be useless but that's why the role has a wide array of ability to use.
4.3 Right. Ummm I guess I should think of another ability to replace that I literally forgot that Hypnotist has that ability.
4.4 Well I wouldn't say they're really played defensive but that's why they're on the Mafia Support alignment they help mafia in any way they an possibly can.
4.5 Well If you have any suggestions to change this ability but I don't want to remove all of it especially the one that they won't get notified of your action
4.6 I wouldn't say it's unnecessary, why cause you only get to use this once, but It's quite useful you just have to time your abilities right

It's not necessarily a stronger consort since it has only one uses to each ability. But I do thank you for your reply I can finally narrow down what I'll change to this role

Question: I thought that being detection Immune for a mafia is ok as long as it's balanced, and doesn't change the whole game completely. Am I wrong?

What's the point of Sheriff then? If most of the Mafia are Detection Immune. Why do you want to make Sheriff useless, it's already the 6th best TI aka the worst TI in ToS. Also focus on one ability for your role, jack of all trades roles usually don't work because their abilities are swingy.
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Re: SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Postby S0meguyyoukilled » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:34 am

Might I ask what does swingy means

So you're saying In general a Mafia role should:
* Not become another detriment for the sheriff to fight (well I guess we're negating every posssible mafia role to have detection immunity)
* Focus mostly on a single ability (Well If that's what you think best for a mafia role, but I kinda like role with a wide and a lot of varying abilities but I understand your point.)
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Re: SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Postby triangularbrick » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:17 am

1. Change the name mafia have italian names for a reason (Maybe "Soprano" or "Falsetto" smth like that

2. The idea feels rough. The idea as a whole mignt not be terrible but having it being a singer. Songing different genres to do different things seems lazy and kinda cheap.
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Re: SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Postby Flake » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:41 am

BasicFourLife wrote:Why do you want to make Sheriff useless, it's already the 6th best TI aka the worst TI in ToS.

Shall we not use alleged certainty for a subjective topic

On the topic of the thread, the fact that the role is overly complex alone makes it very iffy. Do you think a player should require memory of all of the genres just to have some idea of what they're doing? If they don't have to memorise them, where are they being listed/explained? In the role card where there very likely won't be enough room to fit the required information?
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Re: SINGER (MAFIA SUPPORT)

Postby S0meguyyoukilled » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:29 am

So in terms of the memorising the genres well the game could just put a unique button for the singer to see each definitions of the abilities and ther effects, I understand that the role could be too complex for the gamers, and the game itself, If you see no that the role couldn't be changed without removing the role's complexity then I might just have to give up this role.

triangularbrick wrote:1. Change the name mafia have italian names for a reason (Maybe "Soprano" or "Falsetto" smth like that

2. The idea feels rough. The idea as a whole mignt not be terrible but having it being a singer. Songing different genres to do different things seems lazy and kinda cheap.


1. well "soprano." Is a voice classification, so It could be a better name but it doesn't really have a connection, has to be that name when you can just sing a song with diff. genres so, how about Vocal Coach.

2. Well does the name Vocal Coach better fit the role?
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