Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Old Role Ideas

Douse Immunity?

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No
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Total votes : 6

Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby SweetLionButt » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:18 pm

Role Name: Arsonist

Role Alignment: Neutral Killing

Defense: Powerful

Attack : Unstoppable

Attributes:You may choose to douse someone in gas each night

Abilities:You may choose to ignite all doused targets by selecting yourself. You may clean all gas from yourself by not doing any action at all.

Goal: Live to see everyone BURN

Wins with: Arsonist Winning Conditions

Special Attributes:If you are role blocked you will douse the role blocker. If you are jailed you will douse the Jailor.

Investigative Results: Bodyguard/Crusader/GodFather/Arsonist

Update Log:
Spoiler: Removed the rampage attack cause people hate it
Last edited by SweetLionButt on Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:47 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby Element83 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:32 pm

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=84421

Why dont you just slap on Pestilence and call it a day

This is literally a arso with a buffed defense like XDD - THIS IS NOT NEEDED XD
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby SweetLionButt » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:47 pm

Lol first off this is not a joke role i did NOT just buff the defense.

He douses escorts/consorts when they rb him.

He douses Jailor when they jail him

and his douses are a RAMPAGE attack.

+the defense
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby Element83 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:57 pm

SweetLionButt wrote:Lol first off this is not a joke role i did NOT just buff the defense.

He douses escorts/consorts when they rb him.

He douses Jailor when they jail him

and his douses are a RAMPAGE attack.

+the defense

Ok here are my thoughts

+Escorts/Jailor thing
BUT
>RaMpAgE - Rampage is RNG and takes no skill to use, its broken, You can kill the entire town if an arso has RaMagE

so of course /NoSupport
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby GoogleFeud » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:04 am

The escort/consort buff sure, it has been suggested before.


But making it werewolf immune is just unneeded. It nerfs the WW even more, and it won't be able to win in a 1v1 with an arso.

"Your ignites are a Rampage attack and anyone that visits an ignited target will also die." This is also a huge no-no.
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:36 am

Werewolf is one of the worst roles in the game. We don’t need a Werewolf 2.0 role. Arsonist would be much better and much more broken with these buffs.
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby fwogcarf » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:59 am

Wait, so Werewolves and SKs can no longer kill this role? We can only have them die by Unstoppable attacks now? Oh boy, I'm sure that's balanced

/nosupport
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby SweetLionButt » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:42 pm

fwogcarf wrote:Wait, so Werewolves and SKs can no longer kill this role? We can only have them die by Unstoppable attacks now? Oh boy, I'm sure that's balanced

/nosupport



Hahaha....dude, SK cant kill arso either way. Plus WW and Arso would not be in the same game. Unless its Custom or All Any. But those Modes are choas anyway

Element83 wrote:
SweetLionButt wrote:Lol first off this is not a joke role i did NOT just buff the defense.

He douses escorts/consorts when they rb him.

He douses Jailor when they jail him

and his douses are a RAMPAGE attack.

+the defense

Ok here are my thoughts

+Escorts/Jailor thing
BUT
>RaMpAgE - Rampage is RNG and takes no skill to use, its broken, You can kill the entire town if an arso has RaMagE

so of course /NoSupport


Ramage is not RNG but i see your point so i deleted it
Last edited by Flake on Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please refrain from multi-posting.
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby fwogcarf » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:04 pm

SweetLionButt wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Wait, so Werewolves and SKs can no longer kill this role? We can only have them die by Unstoppable attacks now? Oh boy, I'm sure that's balanced

/nosupport



Hahaha....dude, SK cant kill arso either way. Plus WW and Arso would not be in the same game. Unless its Custom or All Any. But those Modes are choas anyway

You're also forgetting Veteran
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby Kirize12 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:31 pm

DOUSE IMMUNITY
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:37 am

Kirize12 wrote:DOUSE IMMUNITY

From Arsos only* it doesnt need immunity against FBs
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby dyaomaster » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:27 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:DOUSE IMMUNITY

From Arsos only* it doesnt need immunity against FBs

That can be dealt with if FB is actually added to the game. Last I checked, the only role that got into the game from TG was Hypnotist.
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby TheLeaper » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:41 am

Kirize12 wrote:DOUSE IMMUNITY


Actually I like that arsonists can still be doused by other arsonists, it does not really make sense for anyone to be immune - how are you immune to being covered in gas?

Also, the arsonist is notified when another arsonist douses them, so if you get ignited by another arsonist that it is on you.
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby Kirize12 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:51 am

TheLeaper wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:DOUSE IMMUNITY


Actually I like that arsonists can still be doused by other arsonists, it does not really make sense for anyone to be immune - how are you immune to being covered in gas? Lore based argument, I can just as easily say “gasoline is an undiscovered comcept, so ardonists (aka people who are experienced with this kind of stuff) should be able to immediately detect it, while other townies might attribute the smell to just something they ate. :3

Also, the arsonist is notified when another arsonist douses them, so if you get ignited by another arsonist that it is on you. But then you have to give up a night where you could be dousing someone. For a role who’s kills are already set at N-1, this is sub-optimal.


Also I’m like 50% sure douse immunity is already a thing.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:05 am

Kirize12 wrote:
TheLeaper wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:DOUSE IMMUNITY


Actually I like that arsonists can still be doused by other arsonists, it does not really make sense for anyone to be immune - how are you immune to being covered in gas? Lore based argument, I can just as easily say “gasoline is an undiscovered comcept, so ardonists (aka people who are experienced with this kind of stuff) should be able to immediately detect it, while other townies might attribute the smell to just something they ate. :3

Also, the arsonist is notified when another arsonist douses them, so if you get ignited by another arsonist that it is on you. But then you have to give up a night where you could be dousing someone. For a role who’s kills are already set at N-1, this is sub-optimal.


Also I’m like 50% sure douse immunity is already a thing.

Douse Immunity doesn't exist in ToS, if that's what you meant or I misunderstood sth.
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby TheLeaper » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:40 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
TheLeaper wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:DOUSE IMMUNITY


Actually I like that arsonists can still be doused by other arsonists, it does not really make sense for anyone to be immune - how are you immune to being covered in gas? Lore based argument, I can just as easily say “gasoline is an undiscovered comcept, so ardonists (aka people who are experienced with this kind of stuff) should be able to immediately detect it, while other townies might attribute the smell to just something they ate. :3

Also, the arsonist is notified when another arsonist douses them, so if you get ignited by another arsonist that it is on you. But then you have to give up a night where you could be dousing someone. For a role who’s kills are already set at N-1, this is sub-optimal.


Also I’m like 50% sure douse immunity is already a thing.


People have already said here on the forums that they reject Lore based arguments no matter what. I dislike the idea of douse immunity so I am also going to need a little more than "it's a different universe".

If you have to wait a night because you are doused, then that means there is more than 1 Arsonist in the game. Also meaning your KPN goes up, therefore, no, it isn't sub-optimal at all. 2 arsonists who get lucky can sweep the town in 6 nights.
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby dyaomaster » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:43 am

TheLeaper wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:
TheLeaper wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:DOUSE IMMUNITY


Actually I like that arsonists can still be doused by other arsonists, it does not really make sense for anyone to be immune - how are you immune to being covered in gas? Lore based argument, I can just as easily say “gasoline is an undiscovered comcept, so ardonists (aka people who are experienced with this kind of stuff) should be able to immediately detect it, while other townies might attribute the smell to just something they ate. :3

Also, the arsonist is notified when another arsonist douses them, so if you get ignited by another arsonist that it is on you. But then you have to give up a night where you could be dousing someone. For a role who’s kills are already set at N-1, this is sub-optimal.


Also I’m like 50% sure douse immunity is already a thing.


People have already said here on the forums that they reject Lore based arguments no matter what. I dislike the idea of douse immunity so I am also going to need a little more than "it's a different universe".

If you have to wait a night because you are doused, then that means there is more than 1 Arsonist in the game. Also meaning your KPN goes up, therefore, no, it isn't sub-optimal at all. 2 arsonists who get lucky can sweep the town in 6 nights.


Kirzie likes douse immunity. Kirzie has been on the forums longer than you. Thus, Kirzie's like outweighs your dislike. Thus, douse immunity is better.
QED

On a more serious note though... when you present it like that, I see the point. Maybe start off by making Arsonist self douse immune, and work from there?

Back to a less serious note: Arso shouldn't be night immune. How does somebody automatically be bulletproof and knifeproof? Makes no sense to me.
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby BasicFourLife » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:17 am

TheLeaper wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:
TheLeaper wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:DOUSE IMMUNITY


Actually I like that arsonists can still be doused by other arsonists, it does not really make sense for anyone to be immune - how are you immune to being covered in gas? Lore based argument, I can just as easily say “gasoline is an undiscovered comcept, so ardonists (aka people who are experienced with this kind of stuff) should be able to immediately detect it, while other townies might attribute the smell to just something they ate. :3

Also, the arsonist is notified when another arsonist douses them, so if you get ignited by another arsonist that it is on you. But then you have to give up a night where you could be dousing someone. For a role who’s kills are already set at N-1, this is sub-optimal.


Also I’m like 50% sure douse immunity is already a thing.


People have already said here on the forums that they reject Lore based arguments no matter what. I dislike the idea of douse immunity so I am also going to need a little more than "it's a different universe".

If you have to wait a night because you are doused, then that means there is more than 1 Arsonist in the game. Also meaning your KPN goes up, therefore, no, it isn't sub-optimal at all. 2 arsonists who get lucky can sweep the town in 6 nights.

You are arguing for non Ranked balance right now. The reason Douse Immunity needs to exist is because if a Transporter or a Witch makes the Arsonist target itself. It saves one night for the Arsonist.
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby SweetLionButt » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:46 am

THATS IT IM RUNNING A POLL
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby Kirize12 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:19 pm

You made the lore based argument, not me. I just brought yo my argument to counter yours because both are equally dumb. (Also, mine isn’t a different universe, it’s the time period the game is set in)
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby TheLeaper » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:16 pm

No, you were the one that brought up the lore based argument. Which is irrelevant.

Nothing in this universe that is edible smells anything like gasoline, so yeah it would have to be set in a different universe for people to mistake the smell for something like that.
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby QTmcwee » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:06 pm

Element83 wrote:
SweetLionButt wrote:Lol first off this is not a joke role i did NOT just buff the defense.

He douses escorts/consorts when they rb him.

He douses Jailor when they jail him

and his douses are a RAMPAGE attack.

+the defense

Ok here are my thoughts

+Escorts/Jailor thing
BUT
>RaMpAgE - Rampage is RNG and takes no skill to use, its broken, You can kill the entire town if an arso has RaMagE

so of course /NoSupport


Lol, do you even know what "Rampage" means? You attack your target's visitors. That's not RNG. Lmfao. RNG stands for Random Number Generator. Roles that are RNG include the Psychic and Crusader (Coven Expansion). Werewolf does not consist of an RNG mechanic, even though they consist of a Rampage attack as well. I for one think the Arso is balanced in certain conditions, however needs to be tweaked. For one, the Powerful defense does not need to be added, the only ones who could possibly kill an Arsonist are: Crusader, Bodyguard, Trapper, Jailor, Werewolf, Arsonist, Pestilence, Medusa, Veteran, Hex Master, and Pirate. In my opinion the Arsonist doesn't need more defense. I like the idea they douse their RB'ers though. I suppose that the Rampage should be used for the douses, and when you ignite your targets cannot be visited during that night. Who knows, however I do agree with most - 99% of this role remake.
/support
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:36 pm

TheLeaper wrote:it does not really make sense for anyone to be immune - how are you immune to being covered in gas?

This is a lore based argument.

People in those ages didn't know what gasoline was, thus they wouldn't be able to attribute the smell to gasoline.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Long Long LONG need Arsonist buff

Postby SweetLionButt » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:33 am

QTmcwee wrote:
Element83 wrote:
SweetLionButt wrote:Lol first off this is not a joke role i did NOT just buff the defense.

He douses escorts/consorts when they rb him.

He douses Jailor when they jail him

and his douses are a RAMPAGE attack.

+the defense

Ok here are my thoughts

+Escorts/Jailor thing
BUT
>RaMpAgE - Rampage is RNG and takes no skill to use, its broken, You can kill the entire town if an arso has RaMagE

so of course /NoSupport


Lol, do you even know what "Rampage" means? You attack your target's visitors. That's not RNG. Lmfao. RNG stands for Random Number Generator. Roles that are RNG include the Psychic and Crusader (Coven Expansion). Werewolf does not consist of an RNG mechanic, even though they consist of a Rampage attack as well. I for one think the Arso is balanced in certain conditions, however needs to be tweaked. For one, the Powerful defense does not need to be added, the only ones who could possibly kill an Arsonist are: Crusader, Bodyguard, Trapper, Jailor, Werewolf, Arsonist, Pestilence, Medusa, Veteran, Hex Master, and Pirate. In my opinion the Arsonist doesn't need more defense. I like the idea they douse their RB'ers though. I suppose that the Rampage should be used for the douses, and when you ignite your targets cannot be visited during that night. Who knows, however I do agree with most - 99% of this role remake. Spoiler: Whats the 1%?
/support
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Re: Long needed Arsonist buff [Updated!!]

Postby TheLeaper » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:39 pm

Kirize12 wrote:This is a lore based argument.

People in those ages didn't know what gasoline was, thus they wouldn't be able to attribute the smell to gasoline.


It's not a lore based argument - you FUCK. Regardless of whether or not you know what gasoline is, you LITERALLY can't be immune to having it thrown on you.

Take your weeb bullshit somewhere else.
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