Jailor Nerfs

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Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:50 pm

A while ago I did a Jailor Rework? kinda post and got some good feedback, so I'm going to summarize what I want changed about the Jailor.
This is in the order I want the changes.

1. Jailor shouldn't be able to jail the same person twice in a row. Jailor should have to wait a night before they can jail the same person, so they could jail A n1 but they couldn't jail A n2, this would force them to change targets. Also it gives mafia a chance against Jailor.
2. Jailed NKs should get the option on weather they want to attack the Jailor when they are jailed.
3. Godfather should get the option to kill the Jailor as well as the NK's. Same for Coven with the Necronomicon.

Those are the things I want changed that balance Jailor a bit.

Here are some cosmetic changes I want.

1. Bars over the screen showing that you are in jail.
2. A better Jailor House and Skin, the old ones are good, but I want some new ones.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Boredfan1 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:11 pm

-Jailor should be able to jail whoever they want, you can't force them to conform to what you think they should do and any mafia worth their salt can convince the jailor not to execute them unless they were put in a really shitty situation where you can't come back from it as I have. Usually, the jailor changes targets but if you don't want to exe someone who didn't respond and want to give them a chance before executing them or they are confirmed maf, you need to jail them. The jailor isn't overpowered, it's actually pretty decently powerful in fact, it is less powerful than it use to be and even then it wasn't that bad.

-The second is exactly what I've suggested. It feels like you stole it from me! Jokes aside, I support.

-If the godfather can kill the jailor in jail, then it just confirms who the godfather is like with the SK so it's not smart.

-If you are at all paying attention, you know you are in jail, you don't need bar cosmetics.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:06 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:-Jailor should be able to jail whoever they want, you can't force them to conform to what you think they should do and any mafia worth their salt can convince the jailor not to execute them unless they were put in a really shitty situation where you can't come back from it as I have. Usually, the jailor changes targets but if you don't want to exe someone who didn't respond and want to give them a chance before executing them or they are confirmed maf, you need to jail them. The jailor isn't overpowered, it's actually pretty decently powerful in fact, it is less powerful than it use to be and even then it wasn't that bad.

-The second is exactly what I've suggested. It feels like you stole it from me! Jokes aside, I support.

-If the godfather can kill the jailor in jail, then it just confirms who the godfather is like with the SK so it's not smart.

-If you are at all paying attention, you know you are in jail, you don't need bar cosmetics.

1. Jailor can jail whoever they want, they just can't do it twice in a row I'm also pretty sure other people will support this change. Aka they can't do A A A any more, if they wanted to do that they would have to do A B A.
2/3. GF should get the option to do so as well is what I said, it doesn't force the GF to kill. I also think it should take the factional kill if GF decides too. So GF could choose not to kill as well.

4. We don't need it, but I want it.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:48 am

-If it takes the faction kill, perhaps but even then, it can still be bad for the mafia as a town can easily come to the conclusion X was jailed and therefore they are probably the godfather.

-Still, it hurts the town and players too much to make them conform to a pattern you want.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:02 am

Boredfan1 wrote:-If it takes the faction kill, perhaps but even then, it can still be bad for the mafia as a town can easily come to the conclusion X was jailed and therefore they are probably the godfather.

-Still, it hurts the town and players too much to make them conform to a pattern you want.

Hurting town was the goal. Town is powerful currently, unless in low elo. A Jailor not being able to jail same person twice in a row has been supported my many others as well. I myself support it greatly.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:04 pm

The jailor is fine though, the problem lies more in spy and poorly designed mafia, NK and witch.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:59 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:The jailor is fine though, the problem lies more in spy and poorly designed mafia, NK and witch.

Jailor is fine.... oh man...

Jailor although a fun role, it's overbearingly powerful.

And the Mafia on the other hand although some of the roles can be considered useless they each have their own use.

The Spy is a topic I'm not going to even get into right now, cause right now the spy can be considered both OP and UP depending on where you look at it.

NK and Witch?
Witch is a role that could use some work yes, but I for one enjoy the current witch, it's a pretty good role albeit the difficulty of playing with it, the only time I didn't like it was when the results were in a bad category with no town. (Invests were the bane of my existence.)
NK is also something I don't want to delve into right now.

Anyways if your going to leave feedback keep it on the topic, don't try to change it to be about Mafia/NK/Witch/Spy
The main goal of this topic are Jailor nerfs, if you have input on why you like them good, do /support and then give your reasons for liking them.
If you don't like them do /nosupport and give your reason. Then if the OP asks you about your reply try to answer to the best of your abilities.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Cirque » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:20 pm

I agree with 1, 2, and the cosmetics. Since Mafia and Coven have a team behind them I think it would be a little OP to just straight up kill the Jailor if they wanted to.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:45 pm

I wasn't trying to change the topic.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Mystoc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:16 pm

Cirque wrote:I agree with 1, 2, and the cosmetics. Since Mafia and Coven have a team behind them I think it would be a little OP to just straight up kill the Jailor if they wanted to.


only the leaders of each faction can do the kill, any other mafia or coven role cant, the leaders only get to kill the jailor if he doesn't execute them it's not as simple as them just wanting to kill the jailor

yea if GF did choose to kill the mafioso kill would have to fail otherwise it would out the GF i agree with that

as for jailor not being able to jail the same person in a row it, jailors main Job is get info for town anonymously that is the purpose of the role, it protecting and killing people are its secondary functions

jail would never need to jail the same person twice in a row to get info, he would only do it for the other two secondary reasons so it's a good nerf

making it be unable to jail the same person in a row does 3 things
-cant act like TP to town roles
-cant jail the same evil again to see if no evil kills again (like last night the jailor jails the mafioso when GF has died already now now jailor cant just jail again and see if no deaths happens agains
-lastly it punishes the jailor for being indecisive if he decides not execute an person then changes his mind he now has to wait a night
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby MCGamerXVI » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:24 pm

TrueGuardian32 wrote:A while ago I did a Jailor Rework? kinda post and got some good feedback, so I'm going to summarize what I want changed about the Jailor.
This is in the order I want the changes.

1. Jailor shouldn't be able to jail the same person twice in a row. Jailor should have to wait a night before they can jail the same person, so they could jail A n1 but they couldn't jail A n2, this would force them to change targets. Also it gives mafia a chance against Jailor.
2. Jailed NKs should get the option on weather they want to attack the Jailor when they are jailed.
3. Godfather should get the option to kill the Jailor as well as the NK's. Same for Coven with the Necronomicon.

Those are the things I want changed that balance Jailor a bit.

Here are some cosmetic changes I want.

1. Bars over the screen showing that you are in jail.
2. A better Jailor House and Skin, the old ones are good, but I want some new ones.


1. Jailor should be able to choose whoever they chose in my opinion you are making a rule for them when this role is a free role deciding who to jail. If there was a situation where there is a 1 vs 1 with jailor versus like Godfather then godfather would win due to Jailor not being able to jail them multiple times in a row.
2. I believe SK should get the option to kill the Jailor, but if the werewolf is jailed on a full moon he shouldn't be able to choose to kill the jailor or not due to him not being able to resist the urge of the full moon.
3. Mafia and coven have teams behind them that can kill the jailor if they wanted to (and can) so just letting them be able to kill the jailor is getting them a kill the jailor free card without guessing who jailor is.
4. the bars over the screen isn't really necessary and it might get in the way so I think this shouldn't be added.
5. New skins would be cool though!
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:35 pm

-The godfather orders the mafioso to attack so it's the mafioso who actually does the kill. But if the godfather is jailed, then the mafioso has full reign to attack who they want which would be robbed from this if the godfather can attack jailor in jail.

-It protects people by getting information and jailing known evils and executing them. The game could be better balanced in other ways.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:32 am

Boredfan1 wrote:-The godfather orders the mafioso to attack so it's the mafioso who actually does the kill. But if the godfather is jailed, then the mafioso has full reign to attack who they want which would be robbed from this if the godfather can attack jailor in jail.

-It protects people by getting information and jailing known evils and executing them. The game could be better balanced in other ways.

The Godfather can only order the Mafioso to attack the Jailor, and it puts the mark besides the GFs name instead of the Jailor, also if there is a executions the GF's attack fails.
Also the second point you put doesn't make sense, its still like that in this version, you just can't jail twice in a row. So you can technically jail who ever you want, your just forced to switch to another each night, so on Night 1 you could jail Mr Tromp but on Night 2 you couldn't, however on Night 3 you can.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Jackparrot » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:28 am

I dont think the GF should be able to kill Jailor while in jail, what about the mafioso?
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Boredfan1 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:42 am

TrueGuardian32 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:-The godfather orders the mafioso to attack so it's the mafioso who actually does the kill. But if the godfather is jailed, then the mafioso has full reign to attack who they want which would be robbed from this if the godfather can attack jailor in jail.

-It protects people by getting information and jailing known evils and executing them. The game could be better balanced in other ways.

The Godfather can only order the Mafioso to attack the Jailor, and it puts the mark besides the GFs name instead of the Jailor, also if there is a executions the GF's attack fails.
Also the second point you put doesn't make sense, its still like that in this version, you just can't jail twice in a row. So you can technically jail who ever you want, your just forced to switch to another each night, so on Night 1 you could jail Mr Tromp but on Night 2 you couldn't, however on Night 3 you can.


Nothing you said made any sense.

-But the thing is, what if they don't know who the jailor is? So it doesn't make sense to just give them that information and would be an unfair buff. No, the godfather would have to attack the jailor but even then, it's not very smart.

-The jailor protects people by executing evils and jailing suspects so they know who to kill.

-Again, it's not a good idea to force the jailor to conform to this pattern because you think it's overpowered. It becomes virtually useless once it runs out of executions and with a limit of three and the ability to lose all of them by executing a townie, it has been nerfed enough that it's strength is fair.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:32 am

Boredfan1 wrote:
TrueGuardian32 wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:-The godfather orders the mafioso to attack so it's the mafioso who actually does the kill. But if the godfather is jailed, then the mafioso has full reign to attack who they want which would be robbed from this if the godfather can attack jailor in jail.

-It protects people by getting information and jailing known evils and executing them. The game could be better balanced in other ways.

The Godfather can only order the Mafioso to attack the Jailor, and it puts the mark besides the GFs name instead of the Jailor, also if there is a executions the GF's attack fails.
Also the second point you put doesn't make sense, its still like that in this version, you just can't jail twice in a row. So you can technically jail who ever you want, your just forced to switch to another each night, so on Night 1 you could jail Mr Tromp but on Night 2 you couldn't, however on Night 3 you can.


Nothing you said made any sense.

-But the thing is, what if they don't know who the jailor is? So it doesn't make sense to just give them that information and would be an unfair buff. No, the godfather would have to attack the jailor but even then, it's not very smart.

-The jailor protects people by executing evils and jailing suspects so they know who to kill.

-Again, it's not a good idea to force the jailor to conform to this pattern because you think it's overpowered. It becomes virtually useless once it runs out of executions and with a limit of three and the ability to lose all of them by executing a townie, it has been nerfed enough that it's strength is fair.


It doesn't let the GF know who jailor is XD, also it's been agreed that Jailor in his current state is OP. The Jailor can run the game even with the current nerfs.
It gives the NKs and Arsos the ability to click on the button besides their OWN name, not the JAILORS name. The Evils knowing who the Jailor is when they are jailed is the strongest nerf to jailor I can think of, it also makes Jailor almost useless, meaning that I would never suggest a change that reveals the jailor.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Boredfan1 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:25 am

SIGH.

1: The jailor CAN'T run the game, that's a major exaggeration, the jailor is strong but nerf it anymore and the role is useless.

2: Again, allowing any evil role kill the jailor while in jail is a bad idea because it's too easy to get lynched soon after without a forger.

3: Allowing them to kill would essentially nerf the jailor too much and make it useless since too many things can just kill them.

4: Do not increase the letters of a sentence to such degree, it is jarring and unnecessary.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:37 am

Boredfan1 wrote:SIGH.

1: The jailor CAN'T run the game, that's a major exaggeration, the jailor is strong but nerf it anymore and the role is useless.

2: Again, allowing any evil role kill the jailor while in jail is a bad idea because it's too easy to get lynched soon after without a forger.

3: Allowing them to kill would essentially nerf the jailor too much and make it useless since too many things can just kill them.

4: Do not increase the letters of a sentence to such degree, it is jarring and unnecessary.

1. Can.
2. Thats why most will choose to not kill Jailor.
3. Simple, Everything can already kill them. SK/WW well not everything, but everything in the NK except for Arso. Also Executing the target stops the GFs/Coven with necros ability to kill them.
4. Can't help that, :/ it's something I do a lot.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Boredfan1 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:19 am

1: Jailor NEVER reveals early unless they are stupid because of how big of a target they are so usually it's someone else.

2: The very fact that most wouldn't kill the jailor if you are jailed is why I keep saying no. It's still idiotic with SK.

3: The difference between being killed normally and being killed like this is that you basically make his one job invalid so you might as well remove it.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Shilster » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:23 am

I don't think GF and Coven should be able to kill Jailor. It would make Jailor too weak.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:12 am

Shilster wrote:I don't think GF and Coven should be able to kill Jailor. It would make Jailor too weak.


Coven with Necro.

And yeah it kinda nerfs Jailor a lot. I'm thinking of removing it and keeping 1 and 2. Still, it's only the leaders of the respective factions that can.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Shilster » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:32 am

So do Lookouts see the kill? Who would kill, the GF or Mafioso?
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:43 am

Shilster wrote:So do Lookouts see the kill? Who would kill, the GF or Mafioso?

The Mafioso doesn't visit Jailor, which is a way to tell if the Jailors target is GF or not cause no one would've visited him. The GF directly attacks the Jailor.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby Supertcgamer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:05 pm

The Jailor is suppose to be powerful but the question is how powerful? The town has the strongest win rates, the jailor needs nerfs. I agree with a lot of these changes but instead of only jailing A once they can only jail A twice with a 1 day cool down, just inase mafia wants to smarten up or if jailor wants to exe/lynch this without rb mafia until they find the rest of the RMs. It's not fair or balanced. (Another soultion to this would be that jailing does not role block.) The Mayor being protected all game is bs, the jailor shouldn't be allowed, mayor is powerful when it comes to VFR. Allowing the jailor a cool down on jailing the same person over and over is a great way to stopping this crap.

The NK's having the ability to choose to kill the jailor should be allowed, the SK and WW have low win rates and the reason of being jailed is part of the win rates, you get found out upon because a jailor can type who he jailed. (Not rbing would also fix this problem.)

The Godfather or CL being able to attack jailor in jail is ehh to me.

They need to nerf Jailor. The ways you propose are good and the people who are against it just like an easy way to win or have to much endorphin from this role for it to be nerfed.
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Re: Jailor Nerfs

Postby BS4125 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:36 am

Please avoid the bumps
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=17204


Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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