Coroner (Town Investigative)

[Gooose26]

It can spot fake wills, like a Lookout. I think the correct comparison to this role is Lookout-Sheriff.

I thought I had a kill it option too... I fixed it. I don't understand the hate that much though.

[Mystoc]

It can spot fake wills, like a Lookout. I think the correct comparison to this role is Lookout-Sheriff.

I thought I had a kill it option too... I fixed it. I don't understand the hate that much though.

so it's like LO/sherrif hybrid then hmm yea i agree

it's just that i think not having a don't like option means you aren't confident your role is good and it seems like you think everyone will just put i don't like the role this also prevents people from giving honest feedback, i wouldn't say i hated that you do that that's too strong of word i would strongly disliked it

i brought up the point and argued against the idea so much because i'm starting to see its becoming a common trend to do this and i really hope this doesn't become a common thing (paralxes jestor role has the problem as well where you can only give good feedback)

now thats you changed to so people can vote what they think i vote balanced i like this role alot, would love to see it in TG, so i voted that

[Gooose26]

so it's like LO/sherrif hybrid then hmm yea i agree

it's just that i think not having a don't like option means you aren't confident your role is good and it seems like you think everyone will just put i don't like the role this also prevents people from giving honest feedback, i wouldn't say i hated that you do that that's too strong of word i would strongly disliked it

i brought up the point and argued against the idea so much because i'm starting to see its becoming a common trend to do this and i really hope this doesn't become a common thing (paralxes jestor role has the problem as well where you can only give good feedback)

now thats you changed to so people can vote what they think i vote balanced i like this role alot, would love to see it in TG, so i voted that

Well I didn't think of it like that, but although I'm confident that this role is pretty balanced I still feel that most people would dislike it mostly because of where this role is coming from. It is a version off of a role that was in TG and was removed(because it was bad), and I felt that although it was bad that it was removed prematurely before options to fix it were discussed.

And I know all about the jester role thread, it's all the discussion taking place there. I still think people are overreacting but whatever.

[Mystoc]

this role can be roleblocked right? from visiting the two people

if roleblocked/witched does the body get used up since visiting the body is day ability it happens no matter what but checking the other two people if they visit is separate from that

for example if you used your day ability on a dead body and then choose to check no one that night, that would still use the body up right?

how would it work?

[Gooose26]

this role can be roleblocked right? from visiting the two people

if roleblocked/witched does the body get used up since visiting the body is day ability it happens no matter what but checking the other two people if they visit is separate from that

for example if you used your day ability on a dead body and then choose to check no one that night, that would still use the body up right?

how would it work?

I think it is fair that if you are roleblocked then you can recheck the same body

[Mystoc]

this role can be roleblocked right? from visiting the two people

if roleblocked/witched does the body get used up since visiting the body is day ability it happens no matter what but checking the other two people if they visit is separate from that

for example if you used your day ability on a dead body and then choose to check no one that night, that would still use the body up right?

how would it work?

I think it is fair that if you are roleblocked then you can recheck the same body

but what if you just choose to do nothing (no RB happened) and did no action after you used the day ability?

same thing can you reuse the body?

what if for someone reason you choose to only check one person instead of two (i'm not saying this the correct thing to do just that it could just end up happening)

[Gooose26]

If you do not choose anybody, then I think that is also fair that you do not waste the body. I think that making the system more fluid in case you change your plans, as selecting in the day is just so you don't have 3 options at night.

If you choose one, which is perfectly fine but just a waste nonetheless, you will not be able to retrace the body.

[Mystoc]

yea all it being tied to the night is much better, having a day ability for no reason just doesn't make sense

just one column to select dead peoples bodies you haven't used

other column is the people that are alive and you and cant be selected until you select a dead body first and then you can select up two alive people in that column

the no selecting no one or being roleblocked not using up the body seems fair to me , i just ask cause i like having everything clarified so the role is 100% fleshed out

[Gooose26]

yea all it being tied to the night is better

just one column to select dead peoples bodies you haven't used

other column is the people who are alive and you cant select the column until you select a dead body first and then you can select up two alive people in that column

the no selecting no one or being roleblocked not using up the body seems fair to me , i just ask cause i like having thing clarified so the role is 100% fleshed out

I'm actually going to change that, but that's a lot of clicking...

And yea its good to know individual reactions

[Mystoc]

yea all it being tied to the night is better

just one column to select dead peoples bodies you haven't used

other column is the people who are alive and you cant select the column until you select a dead body first and then you can select up two alive people in that column

the no selecting no one or being roleblocked not using up the body seems fair to me , i just ask cause i like having thing clarified so the role is 100% fleshed out

I'm actually going to change that, but that's a lot of clicking...

And yea its good to know individual reactions

i mean necromancer is already exactly like this already you just do one extra click on an alive person with this role, not a big deal, 3 clicks the horror! :p

[Gooose26]

yea all it being tied to the night is better

just one column to select dead peoples bodies you haven't used

other column is the people who are alive and you cant select the column until you select a dead body first and then you can select up two alive people in that column

the no selecting no one or being roleblocked not using up the body seems fair to me , i just ask cause i like having thing clarified so the role is 100% fleshed out

I'm actually going to change that, but that's a lot of clicking...

And yea its good to know individual reactions

i mean necromancer is already exactly like this already you just do one extra click on an alive person with this role, not a big deal, 3 clicks the horror! :p

Necromancer? We don't balance around coven xD It's fine though

[fwogcarf]

Little overpowered because it can check multiple people at once to see who visited a dead body. This feature is really crucial towards end of game, thus making it OP

[Gooose26]

Little overpowered because it can check multiple people at once to see who visited a dead body. This feature is really crucial towards end of game, thus making it OP

You can't win the endgame when you lose majority, you have to start lynching before the endgame. This is how all investigatives work, if you don't have any investigative information then you don't make it to the endgame because you lose at the end of the midgame.

Early Game - Nobody is informed
Midgame - Mostly informed and majority is on the line
Lategame - When the majority has been reached by evils or town has become 100% informed first.

Investigatives are useless in the endgame, they run out of power and now the utility roles need to win the game while the investigatives are stuck with just a mere vote.

[BasicFourLife]

Uhm you can confirm two people not being killer at night. Also this is Forger’s and Janitor’s indirect nerfs since they nearly always visit the dead person, so if this role “tracks” them they’ll be discovered. This is a Tracker who can only find killers, but can track 2 people.

[Mystoc]

a lot of people are saying its OP i think cause they don't understand how it works

its alot like sherif and barely like LO you need to list the strength of this role vrs sheriff to get people to understand its NOT op goose

Roles strengths/ weaknesses vrs sheriff

-can check 2 people a night but only after n1, n1 you have no ability since no one has died yet and there a fresh dead body that hasn't be used already
-your success relies on your team dying so do your ability your team needs to get weaker that major weakness people aren't understanding (lo can still see the visit even if the person doesn't die)
-although sheriff can only check 1 person a night he can do it n1 and has no restrictions on when the ability is usable (his own teammates don't have to die)

-while this can eliminate people from being a killer if it finds they didn't visit, it cant eliminate people from being evil, any mafia/coven that doesn't kill cant be found ever unless they are dumb enough to visit a person who dies when they aren't the killer
-sheriff has no such restriction
-sheriff can find evils even on night they dont kill (roleblocked or jailed ect..) this role cant
-sheriff can find any evil faction member (most times forget godfather and necro book)

-this role can have false positives while sheriff cant
-a person could of just happened to visit a dead person the night they died and gotten unlucky and then hanged, sheriff cant have a false positives (forget framer this like happiness 1% of time plus this role can get fooled by framer too)

the only thing this role can do that sheriff cant do is spot fake wills if this role happens to know you didn't or did visit some that night based on the dead body you checked (this is the only way its like LO)

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the only thing i wanted changed the OP disagreed with me on is being unable to use cleaned or stoned bodies has a viable body thats the only nerf i think this role needs

[Gooose26]

Uhm you can confirm two people not being killer at night. Also this is Forger’s and Janitor’s indirect nerfs since they nearly always visit the dead person, so if this role “tracks” them they’ll be discovered. This is a Tracker who can only find killers, but can track 2 people.

Only killers you say? Well then what if an Escort visits the body? Does that mean the Escort is a killer? Normal players can get this system pretty messed up.

Forger needs to be removed and Janitor needs to not be confirmable, it's on those roles that this is more of a problem.

This does confirm nonkillers, but does that mean that this is overpowered? Gotta find something as the Town (Investigative) by Day 4, giving you 3 searches until a decision is definitely needed, so 6 people investigated. Some may die, and others get confirmed anyways. So you won't have anything more useful than a Sheriff who is getting all non-guilty really unless of course, you find someone guilty who visited your target.

And yes, nerfed Tracker with 2 traces, that sounds pretty balanced to me.

[Mystoc]

how about keeping it at two checks each night but it has to but each check has to be on a different body. this makes the role the same if two people keep dying but if only one dies its nerfed a bit since you only get one check


that keeps its checks kinda in line with sheriff and variance of checks and available dead bodies

thoughts on this goose?

and yea the would mean you would need to 4 clicks in a night so much APM the horror

[BasicFourLife]

a lot of people are saying its OP i think cause they don't understand how it works

its alot like sherif and barely like LO you need to list the strength of this role vrs sheriff to get people to understand its NOT op goose

Roles strengths/ weaknesses vrs sheriff

-can check 2 people a night but only after n1, n1 you have no ability since no one has died yet and there a fresh dead body that hasn't be used already
-your success relies on your team dying so do your ability your team needs to get weaker that major weakness people aren't understanding (lo can still see the visit even if the person doesn't die)
-although sheriff can only check 1 person a night he can do it n1 and has no restrictions on when the ability is usable (his own teammates don't have to die)

-while this can eliminate people from being a killer if it finds they didn't visit, it cant eliminate people from being evil, any mafia/coven that doesn't kill cant be found ever unless they are dumb enough to visit a person who dies when they aren't the killer
-sheriff has no such restriction
-sheriff can find evils even on night they dont kill (roleblocked or jailed ect..) this role cant
-sheriff can find any evil faction member (most times forget godfather and necro book)

-this role can have false positives while sheriff cant
-a person could of just happened to visit a dead person the night they died and gotten unlucky and then hanged, sheriff cant have a false positives (forget framer this like happiness 1% of time plus this role can get fooled by framer too)

the only thing this role can do that sheriff cant do is spot fake wills if this role happens to know you didn't or did visit some that night based on the dead body you checked (this is the only way its like LO)

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the only thing i wanted changed the OP disagreed with me on is being unable to use cleaned or stoned bodies has a viable body thats the only nerf i think this role needs

Janitor doesn’t need a buff thank you very much

[Mystoc]

Janitor doesn’t need a buff thank you very much

really inst a buff its new role that never existed and the idea isn't to make janitor stronger its to make this role less OP

mafia got no new roles just a new feature if anything this role nerfs mafia cause town has another new town role while mafia gains no roles or abilities

a buff to janitor is changing the role itself janitor is unchanged, its not a buff

a good comparison to what you just said is if a coven new role is added thats ability gets weaker if spy can see who they visited its countered by spy

so by that logic when any new role with this requirement is added into the game it's a buff to spy

[Gooose26]

I would say that since tracing a body doesn't tell you really anything about the body, then there's no problem using a cleaned body. The problem isn't that this role has a bad reaction with Janitor, it is Janitor's fault for being confirmable.

[Mystoc]

I would say that since tracing a body doesn't tell you really anything about the body, then there's no problem using a cleaned body. The problem isn't that this role has a bad reaction with Janitor, it is Janitor's fault for being confirmable.

i've already been through with on this there would be no evidence on the body, janitor's VERY lore is cleaning up the mess so theres no evidence it makes 0 sense that a cornerer would be able to find evidence on a cleaned body also a stoned body would be made of stone so the person would just a giant block of stone i dont see how you could find any evidence on that

yes balance beat lore, but i don't think it would be that unbalanced to let these roles counter coroner

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if you are still super against this cleaning idea what about this instead

how about keeping it at two checks each night but it has to but each check has to be on a different body. this makes the role the same if two people keep dying but if only one dies its nerfed a bit since you only get one check

that keeps its checks kinda in line with sheriff and variance of checks and availability of dead bodies

[Gooose26]

So you are suggesting that we make Janitor a complete hardcounter to this role if unless there is an SK, on the premise that it is lore. No, I will not.

I think that, if Janitor is in the game and we are using this change, then the Coroner goes from balanced to basically trash, especially without SK

As far as your second suggestion I do not see a need for it, convince me more!

[Mystoc]

So you are suggesting that we make Janitor a complete hardcounter to this role if unless there is an SK, on the premise that it is lore. No, I will not.

I think that, if Janitor is in the game and we are using this change, then the Coroner goes from balanced to basically trash, especially without SK

As far as your second suggestion I do not see a need for it, convince me more!

it still gets two checks like before but only if two people die each night. the main reason people find the role OP is the two checks part so they feel its OP
-making it less consistent makes so sometimes you only get one check a night and sometimes you get two

this change makes it more likely it will you will run out of bodies since you use 2 a night to check
so its check CAN be 2 but sometimes won't be this puts it more line sheriff, without it being limited to one check the whole game which would make it too weak

you could argue it's a buff too

say SK kills someone and mafia kills someone else now you have chance to catch both of them in one night where before you couldn't since you were limited to one body, the main difference is you only have one check per a body so less chance per body but still the same amount of chances to of checking

[Aviel]

I think the role sounds good, it's not OP especially early game, but it can really come in clutch in the end. Overall I think this would be a balanced role.

Here's what I think the lore should be:

You are a forensic expert with an ability to find out a corpse's demise.

[Gooose26]

Running out of bodies shouldn't be a problem unless the game is going slow. You should get to choose if you want to investigate against the nk or against the mafia. You should also have some bodies left so that you can catch anybody with a will following dead players on the night they died.

You shouldn't be able to catch 2 evils in 1 night. The only way I could see that is if the mafia are covering for each other and thus when you scumread one you have the right to catch the other if they are janitor/forger, or if the mafia and nk are so unorganized that they visit the same target, you should be able to punish.

Outside of that, it's good, but I'm unconvinced.