The Demons (New Faction)(5000+ views)(New role added)

[sh99er]

just made abbadon better by being able to invest 3 people but 2 will give alignment and 1 will give a role.

[Spectre0]

By more factions we mean that the faction will take place of the mafia section. Like the options will be randomized of which factionwill go. There wont be any extra players, still 15, just more diversity and different styles of the informed minority.

I'm aware of that. One faction will invariably be weaker than another, and giving a 25% chance of town having to deal with a weaker faction is still unfair.

[sh99er]

By more factions we mean that the faction will take place of the mafia section. Like the options will be randomized of which factionwill go. There wont be any extra players, still 15, just more diversity and different styles of the informed minority.

I'm aware of that. One faction will invariably be weaker than another, and giving a 25% chance of town having to deal with a weaker faction is still unfair.

Not just to replace the mafia section, the demon faction could appear more commonly in Chaos all any or custom games. Heck, Even a new gamemode could be made where town and neutrals or mafia vs Demons, or just make it so in ranked its either mafia/demons, also I understand 1 could be weaker but I feel demons and mafia would both be threats to town in different ways.


Also spectre0 at any of the demons too OP/UP?

Also I am open to more Demon faction role ideas!!! So anyone who reads this if you feel your role could suit my faction please PM me your role suggestion (this includes you spectre0)

[timurtheking]

I like this faction idea, not too Up and not too OP but I do think agni is similar to forger except it can also affect living people. A lot of these roles are like reworked mafia but some are unique/original so I guess its ok. /support from me.

[BlazinIce]

So a 1.16 KPN (with less cover) is fine , and interesting. Succubus is swingy, because it roleblocks up to 6 people every other night. I would suggust a variation of TheEyeOfRed's Screener, or if it didn't roleblock the targeted person. I don't like Djinn, because the first ability is only useful lategame, and the second ability is only useful midgame, but you may not be able to use either ability when it's neccessary. My suggestion: Each night, select someone. If they are a demon, they will have your investigative results. If they are not, they cannot vote.
Reaper seems like a decent NE, but chances are it wouldn't survive half of the time to be able to use its ability. Agni is a weaker Forger/Janitor. Maybe it has 2 uses but it can target two people at a time. Abbadon is weird, but it's stronger than Consigliere in general, due to its ability to find NK/TI/TK/TP. In the most part, subcategories are way more important than specific role names. I can't find a way to fix that role. I'll comment on more of the roles in a bit.

[sh99er]

So a 1.16 KPN (with less cover) is fine , and interesting. Succubus is swingy, because it roleblocks up to 6 people every other night. I would suggust a variation of TheEyeOfRed's Screener, or if it didn't roleblock the targeted person. I don't like Djinn, because the first ability is only useful lategame, and the second ability is only useful midgame, but you may not be able to use either ability when it's neccessary. My suggestion: Each night, select someone. If they are a demon, they will have your investigative results. If they are not, they cannot vote.
Reaper seems like a decent NE, but chances are it wouldn't survive half of the time to be able to use its ability. Agni is a weaker Forger/Janitor. Maybe it has 2 uses but it can target two people at a time. Abbadon is weird, but it's stronger than Consigliere in general, due to its ability to find NK/TI/TK/TP. In the most part, subcategories are way more important than specific role names. I can't find a way to fix that role. I'll comment on more of the roles in a bit.

.mistake

[sh99er]

So a 1.16 KPN (with less cover) is fine , and interesting. Succubus is swingy, because it roleblocks up to 6 people every other night. I would suggust a variation of TheEyeOfRed's Screener, or if it didn't roleblock the targeted person. I don't like Djinn, because the first ability is only useful lategame, and the second ability is only useful midgame, but you may not be able to use either ability when it's neccessary. My suggestion: Each night, select someone. If they are a demon, they will have your investigative results. If they are not, they cannot vote.
Reaper seems like a decent NE, but chances are it wouldn't survive half of the time to be able to use its ability. Agni is a weaker Forger/Janitor. Maybe it has 2 uses but it can target two people at a time. Abbadon is weird, but it's stronger than Consigliere in general, due to its ability to find NK/TI/TK/TP. In the most part, subcategories are way more important than specific role names. I can't find a way to fix that role. I'll comment on more of the roles in a bit.

I have used your ideas to help buff and change some of my roles

Djinn was changed to your suggestion except if the person you chose is non-demon they cant vote and get your results (frame them as a demon kinda)
Reaper wasn't changed as it can be super OP if used correctly
Agni is now detection immune to help with lookout or late-game amne claims.
Abbadon on odd nights can find 2 peoples fction so town/maf/neutral and 1 persons role (like consig) but on even nights it can only check 1 person for an alignment.
(for more depth reread the rolecards in full detail xD)

[sh99er]

If you vote something as OP / UP please tell me why.
Also I have added a new demon role

[sh99er]

Imp was added

[TheEyeOfRed]

Alrighty sh99er, you got what ya asked for...

First off, a few questions:
Will this replace the mafia in games where it exists? We can't have multiple factions at once.
When you say there can be a total of 5 demons in game, you mean in All Any, right? Because there can't be more than 4 in a normal Ranked/Ranked Practice game.

Onto the roles:
Satan:
This is gonna be absolute hell (no pun intended) if a Satan and a Werewolf exist in the same game. Speaking of which, it's just a nerfed WW. Of course it would make sense considering this IS a whole faction that works together, but I find the whole thing about it piercing night immunity a bit useless. The only thing it's good for in a normal game is killing the NK, the Exe and some vesting roles, but that would just decrease the win rate of NK by one fuck ton. I would make it so it just functions like a normal Godfather, otherwise it's either just to OP or UP, depending on what game mode we're talking about.

Ajin:
Ok, so, it kills even slower than WW. I know that it can attack the same night as Satan, but... come on. The mafia should be able to kill normally, why not this role? At least make it wait for just 2 nights or 1, otherwise it kills WAY to slow, even with Satan. Oh and it's REALLY weak if it doesn't work with Satan, make it so that it can kill frequently if not accompanied by one.

Succubus:
It can role block multiple people. I don't care if it can only do this every odd nights, it can role block multiple people in one night. Just make it so that it only role blocks the people that visit the target, not who the target visits, but even then it's hard to like this. Also, Veteran is role block immune as well, regardless of whether or not they're alerting.

Djinn:
First off, I think a better name is Demon Deception, because, you know. Also, it hard counters all TI roles, which Framer and Disguiser already do, so, meh. Finally, just because it has the ability of deception doesn't mean it shouldn't be suspicious. It's part of a group, all members of that group should be suspicious.

Agni:
So it's just... a Janitor. Meh, Janitor's a good role, so I guess this should exist in a faction like this.

Reaper:
This is based off of pure luck. You have to time this well in order to work out, and it has a SUPER OP ability. Trim it down a little, won't ya?

Abbadon:
So, it's just a buffed Consigliere. Of course, it can usually only find alignments, but it's abilities make it so much stronger. Also needs to be trimmed down.

Imp:
Say, I had this exact role in mind once. Guess you beat me to it... oh well, can't see much wrong with this at the moment.

Wraith:
To OP. It can control the chat and votes of someone, see night chat it's not supposed to see, and can pretty much escape death by possessing. No role should be able to do any of this.

In conclusion, it's a good idea for a faction, but I don't see it getting into the game, or TG for that matter. It needs a lot of work, and for it to be added there would have to be a LOT of coding done, which could take a long time. But hey, at least you have my

/support (kinda? I guess.)

[BuckeyeNation]

So.... Demons. Here's a scattershot of thoughts before I dig into each role:

- Why did you include so many mafia results, especially with the Imp? Were you thinking games would have Town, Mafia, AND Demons? Most faction pitches are a substitute for mafia. Having this and mafia in the same game would make this Town of Slaughter.
- What is the strategic importance of making Satan discoverable by the sheriff, but not the Ajin?


Satan/Ajin: There is a case to be made for making the head of a faction an active member of the game, as opposed to passive like the Godfather. I'm kicking around ideas in that regard for my baby faction (Bratva) myself. But what you've done here is create two Demon killing roles that, unless I'm mistaken, both must be in all games like Godfather/Mafioso. Their combined killrate is actually not much higher than mafia, since they only overlap on nights 2, 4, 8, and 10, but leaves n3 kill-less, unless the timing is thrown off by roleblock. Plus Ajin is like mafioso, and we both know that mafiosos do not last long, since they do the killing they're also easy to catch. I saw that you made Ajin not detectable to sheriff, but once Ajin falls, Satan is severely underpowered to carry the game the rest of the way on his own; plus you can't promote Satan - he's literally Satan! The concept of irregular attack is nice, I just don't see how Satan can carry on once Ajin is eliminated.

Succubus: Seems like they would be very easy to call out as scum if all of their target's visitors get roleblocked as well. Can't just keep a will like a consort does; everyone would know they're succubus.

Djinn: I actually quite like this one. Basically a reverse framer, invisible to lookouts. Very nice. My only questions there are: 1) why does a non-demon lose the power to vote and 2) can spies see a Djinn visit?

Agni: Again, a cool little role you've got there. So if I'm reading it correctly, you burn their will, and it stays burnt through the end of the following night, correct? As in, if you burn it N3, it wouldn't reappear until dawn on D5? A bit like janitor, but you can still see their role in the graveyard; but you have 2 nights to kill them, so there's that, plus they lose their will. People would start copy/pasting their wills into microsoft word to get around it in a demon game, so... I dunno. Cool idea though, could work

Reaper: Way too OP. ALL demons will be ns and lookout immune simply by picking the correct person for lynching? Idea is solid, but the role needs some work.

Abbadon: I don't like this change from the norm. No reason to break it into even/odd nights, no reason to be immune to RB. I think you should go: 2 rows of buttons, 1 role, 1 alignment every night, not immune to roleblocks.

Imp: Instead of a role blocker, a role reverser. Very good.

Wraith: I don't think I like it. Every third night is a weird mechanic instead of "getting 3 uses" kind of thing. You can tell that Wraith used to be a neutral role because it's a bit overpowered for use within a faction. The mechanics of it (notably the part where you talk about chat) sounds like a mess. Being able to be killed in that body, but only kill the victim and not you, is hardly fair. That was something I was considerate of when I pitched Ventriloquist recently. And you were considerate of it when you pitched Succubus, too.

[sh99er]

Alrighty sh99er, you got what ya asked for...

First off, a few questions:
Will this replace the mafia in games where it exists? We can't have multiple factions at once.
When you say there can be a total of 5 demons in game, you mean in All Any, right? Because there can't be more than 4 in a normal Ranked/Ranked Practice game.

Could replace mafia, don't know 100%, yes max is 5 so like 5 demons in all any. This could also just be a new gamemode where theres demons, it would be fun and crazy tho if maf and demons were in a game together (like custom)

Onto the roles:
Satan:
This is gonna be absolute hell (no pun intended) if a Satan and a Werewolf exist in the same game. Speaking of which, it's just a nerfed WW. Of course it would make sense considering this IS a whole faction that works together, but I find the whole thing about it piercing night immunity a bit useless. The only thing it's good for in a normal game is killing the NK, the Exe and some vesting roles, but that would just decrease the win rate of NK by one fuck ton. I would make it so it just functions like a normal Godfather, otherwise it's either just to OP or UP, depending on what game mode we're talking about.

]the point is if it killed very night it wuld be OP as it culd pierce immunities including healing every night, that's why it has this cool down, and I don't think it should be like GF otherwise it would be a buffed GF clone :/

Ajin:
Ok, so, it kills even slower than WW. I know that it can attack the same night as Satan, but... come on. The mafia should be able to kill normally, why not this role? At least make it wait for just 2 nights or 1, otherwise it kills WAY to slow, even with Satan. Oh and it's REALLY weak if it doesn't work with Satan, make it so that it can kill frequently if not accompanied by one.

You don't get it...it doesn't have a cooldown but it has a max of 2 kills in the game which is abit little but Ajin is always in a game with satan!!! I might buff Ajin so it has 3 max kills.

Succubus:
It can role block multiple people. I don't care if it can only do this every odd nights, it can role block multiple people in one night. Just make it so that it only role blocks the people that visit the target, not who the target visits, but even then it's hard to like this. Also, Veteran is role block immune as well, regardless of whether or not they're alerting.

Ye I forgot about veteran and yea I guess I'll change it abit

Djinn:
First off, I think a better name is Demon Deception, because, you know. Also, it hard counters all TI roles, which Framer and Disguiser already do, so, meh. Finally, just because it has the ability of deception doesn't mean it shouldn't be suspicious. It's part of a group, all members of that group should be suspicious.

This buffs the faction abit having some detection immune roles like maf have GF, this is kinda like a framer but it can help allies and stop votes but I'll take the criticism in consideration

Agni:
So it's just... a Janitor. Meh, Janitor's a good role, so I guess this should exist in a faction like this.

You mean units like a forger and janitor merged xD because it still shows the role to town...and can mess people up more than forger

Reaper:
This is based off of pure luck. You have to time this well in order to work out, and it has a SUPER OP ability. Trim it down a little, won't ya?

How can I trim/change reaper and it isn't 100% luck just try and mark suspicious people and be patient but I might make it have unlimited marks but the buffs are lowered like only lasts for 2 days?

Abbadon:
So, it's just a buffed Consigliere. Of course, it can usually only find alignments, but it's abilities make it so much stronger. Also needs to be trimmed down.

It kinda is except it can only find allignments on N2 N4 etc otherwise on odd nights it finds out 2 peoples faction and 1 guys role, any suggestions for nerfs?

Imp:
Say, I had this exact role in mind once. Guess you beat me to it... oh well, can't see much wrong with this at the moment.

XD beat you lol...and thanks I guess?

Wraith:
To OP. It can control the chat and votes of someone, see night chat it's not supposed to see, and can pretty much escape death by possessing. No role should be able to do any of this.

Not too OP remember if you possess a mafia or vampire member you kill em instead of controlling them to stop you from seeing nightchats and it can only possess a person every 3 nights...which is along time

In conclusion, it's a good idea for a faction, but I don't see it getting into the game, or TG for that matter. It needs a lot of work, and for it to be added there would have to be a LOT of coding done, which could take a long time. But hey, at least you have my

Ye coding would take long but I think would be worth it, it does need work that's why I need peoples critism and advise...

/support (kinda? I guess.)

Answers all in bold. (thx for the support )

[BlazinIce]

How about for Abbadon, it has two buttons. If the targets clicked are two different people, then you learn their main alignment (Mafia/Town/Neutral). If the Abbadon selects the same person twice, it learns the person's full alignment (Town Killing, Neutral Benign, etc.)

[sh99er]

So.... Demons. Here's a scattershot of thoughts before I dig into each role:

- Why did you include so many mafia results, especially with the Imp? Were you thinking games would have Town, Mafia, AND Demons? Most faction pitches are a substitute for mafia. Having this and mafia in the same game would make this Town of Slaughter.
In custom games/chaos games mafia could spawn
- What is the strategic importance of making Satan discoverable by the sheriff, but not the Ajin?
Got no idea xD but Ajin only becomes detection immune once he uses all 3 attacks


Satan/Ajin: There is a case to be made for making the head of a faction an active member of the game, as opposed to passive like the Godfather. I'm kicking around ideas in that regard for my baby faction (Bratva) myself. But what you've done here is create two Demon killing roles that, unless I'm mistaken, both must be in all games like Godfather/Mafioso. Their combined killrate is actually not much higher than mafia, since they only overlap on nights 2, 4, 8, and 10, but leaves n3 kill-less, unless the timing is thrown off by roleblock. Plus Ajin is like mafioso, and we both know that mafiosos do not last long, since they do the killing they're also easy to catch. I saw that you made Ajin not detectable to sheriff, but once Ajin falls, Satan is severely underpowered to carry the game the rest of the way on his own; plus you can't promote Satan - he's literally Satan! The concept of irregular attack is nice, I just don't see how Satan can carry on once Ajin is eliminated.

I see what you mean, Ajin is alright from what I understand the problem is Satan also before I say anything Ajin can be promoted to Satan because his name is Satan/Shinigami (I don't have a solid name for him yet) Satan is kinda UP with his kill pattern but he can kill immunes/doctor healed people...if he is still UP for you wat would you suggest?

Succubus: Seems like they would be very easy to call out as scum if all of their target's visitors get role blocked as well. Can't just keep a will like a consort does; everyone would know they're succubus.

Yes basically the catch and nerf for this slightly OP role

Djinn: I actually quite like this one. Basically a reverse framer, invisible to lookouts. Very nice. My only questions there are: 1) why does a non-demon lose the power to vote and 2) can spies see a Djinn visit?

Spy can see his visit and the point was to stop voting powers which is OP/useful late game...if he survives!

Agni: Again, a cool little role you've got there. So if I'm reading it correctly, you burn their will, and it stays burnt through the end of the following night, correct? As in, if you burn it N3, it wouldn't reappear until dawn on D5? A bit like janitor, but you can still see their role in the graveyard; but you have 2 nights to kill them, so there's that, plus they lose their will. People would start copy/pasting their wills into microsoft word to get around it in a demon game, so... I dunno. Cool idea though, could work

Yes your right, correct again xD, that's kinda the point but only smart players would do that.

Reaper: Way too OP. ALL demons will be ns and lookout immune simply by picking the correct person for lynching? Idea is solid, but the role needs some work.

I changed it already :3

Abbadon: I don't like this change from the norm. No reason to break it into even/odd nights, no reason to be immune to RB. I think you should go: 2 rows of buttons, 1 role, 1 alignment every night, not immune to roleblocks.

hmmm I see what you mean, I'll take the ideas into account!

Imp: Instead of a role blocker, a role reverser. Very good.

Thx

Wraith: I don't think I like it. Every third night is a weird mechanic instead of "getting 3 uses" kind of thing. You can tell that Wraith used to be a neutral role because it's a bit overpowered for use within a faction. The mechanics of it (notably the part where you talk about chat) sounds like a mess. Being able to be killed in that body, but only kill the victim and not you, is hardly fair. That was something I was considerate of when I pitched Ventriloquist recently. And you were considerate of it when you pitched Succubus, too. I mean if your directly killed at night your target doesn't die its only if your lynched...but I could remove that part?

Overall thanks

[BuckeyeNation]

before I say anything Ajin can be promoted to Satan

The point I was making is that without Ajin, Satan is f*cking awful.

[sh99er]

before I say anything Ajin can be promoted to Satan

The point I was making is that without Ajin, Satan is f*cking awful.

How could it be improved?

[BlazinIce]

How about for Abbadon, it has two buttons. If the targets clicked are two different people, then you learn their main alignment (Mafia/Town/Neutral). If the Abbadon selects the same person twice, it learns the person's full alignment (Town Killing, Neutral Benign, etc.)

[sh99er]

How about for Abbadon, it has two buttons. If the targets clicked are two different people, then you learn their main alignment (Mafia/Town/Neutral). If the Abbadon selects the same person twice, it learns the person's full alignment (Town Killing, Neutral Benign, etc.)

hmm Ill think about it (chances are I would add that)

[sh99er]

How about for Abbadon, it has two buttons. If the targets clicked are two different people, then you learn their main alignment (Mafia/Town/Neutral). If the Abbadon selects the same person twice, it learns the person's full alignment (Town Killing, Neutral Benign, etc.)

Thanks for that now Abbadon isn't exactly an OP or UP consig, its special in its own way...

[sh99er]

Added another demon role-Cerberus!

[sh99er]

Well now i have used all invest results in the game other than Spy / Bm / Jailor.
Welp.

[joefischerxxx]

I was looking for the "The whole idea sucks" option in the poll. There wasn't one, so i'm saying it here.

[sh99er]

I was looking for the "The whole idea sucks" option in the poll. There wasn't one, so i'm saying it here.

Oh what constructive criticism. Oh im in tears from such a insult. What ever shall i do?

Basically instead of being a twat. Give reasons. Especially as your the only one to say this. (or cant you? Cus the 1 role you made died so fast (thankfully), no surprise if you cant give good feedback)

[BuckeyeNation]

The point I was making is that without Ajin, Satan is f*cking awful.

How could it be improved?

At the very least make it kill like a Godfather following the death of Ajin. Once every 2 turns is a horrendous rate, particularly if the Aijn has the bad luck of dying early.

[BuckeyeNation]

Also, Hell's Bells, Cerberus is way overpowered in combination with the Ajin and Satan.