Slave Master (Neutral Killing)

[zzjay]

This is a serialkiller/janitor/blackmailer...

And looks pretty complicated to code...and probably the lore is even a little bit savage...considering all the chat filters in salem

[Gooose26]

This is a serialkiller/janitor/blackmailer...

And looks pretty complicated to code...and probably the lore is even a little bit savage...considering all the chat filters in salem

I mean, if you really wanted to sum it up it's like a Arsonist Serial Killer Janitor Blackmailer Escort combo. But if it's combining tiny, very small parts from each role, it's not really a combination role. But sure if you want to sum it up, however reading that summary wouldn't at all show people what the role does

Sure, it can be a cleaning serial killer, but at the cost of 2 nights of no killing, which isn't bad I guess. But then there are the conversations that a slave can do every other day, so then everything will be revealed at that time. A good reason to keep mafia members alive, so only they know...

Then i guess you could say blackmailer, and also escort. Like they are jailed until they are set free or, killed by dlave master, or slave master dies. So then it's also a doctor.

You are right, it wouldn't be the easiest to code, but the system is already in place for the jailor, so copy that, and then sdding to it would be not as complicated.

The lore isn't savage. Man loves escort, man kidnapps escort. Man kidnapps more people so they wont find escort. Escort kills herself. Man kidnapps enter town leaving bodies do to rage of escort dying

[TheBlueFiretruck]

Are the enslaved people Night Immune for the entirety of their slavery?

And it seems very strange and wrong for the enslaved people to disappear from the town circle. That's a very integral part of the game this would prevent the town from amassing any useful information to even kill the Slave Master (since they can't talk or vote or anything). It's a decently original idea, but I find the mechanics to be too wonky/complicated for ToS.

[Gooose26]

Are the enslaved people Night Immune for the entirety of their slavery?

And it seems very strange and wrong for the enslaved people to disappear from the town circle. That's a very integral part of the game this would prevent the town from amassing any useful information to even kill the Slave Master (since they can't talk or vote or anything). It's a decently original idea, but I find the mechanics to be too wonky/complicated for ToS.

They won't even be on the list, they disappear without dying

Exactly, Slave Master is denying them the right to spread information. But they may pick somebody to whisper at night to somebody who isn't enslaved, which brings out information. Enslaving mafia members will mess with the enslaved, same with neutral evils, and then scum reading is very important for the enslaved since they don't want to whisper to non-town, and they don't want to pick a non-town to whisper.

It is a bit complicated, but not wonky in anyway if you ask me. Thanks for the feedback!

[Mystoc]

you say they aren't dead dont mention anyway they can freed besides the slave master dying and that is problem casue you have all rdy lost so why does it matter if they are freed

if he has all people enslaved that aren't dead i assume the game ends?

does enslaving go through doctor heal and or target being jailed you didn't mention

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he should should not be able ensalve the GF or other NK that is to strong

add a way slaves to can escape for real not just visiting a person and talking to them

cause there is no reason to ever kill till they are cleanable on the 3rd night since they don't appear in the graveyard while enslaved you are essentially cleaning them why would u want to actually kill them before the third night?

and even if there was a reason to kill them which there really isn't you would just wait 3 nights and kill them to clean there is no penalty or risk for waiting 3 nights so why wouldn't you wait?

while the slave mechanic is unique it essentially a glorified way to say you kill and clean them and they go into a different graveyard then others and can talk to their killer,


yea if you die they are freed but again it doesn't matter casue you've already lost so who cares if they are freed and screw mafia over suddenly you won't care for sure

cause keeping them enslaved is essentially killing them cause i see no way they can become unenslaved unless you die but at that point you lost so why does it matter casue you loose when you die anyway

my next post will be ways i think this can fixed

[Mystoc]

here is the first fix i though of

first change it so during they day the slave master cannot see what his slaves are saying during the day

only let him see what the salves say during the night

get rid this vote to visit and talk to someone thing is kind useless and replace it with this

once someone has been owned for more then 2 nights the slaves are able to guess who their master is to try to steal the key from him to get unchained each night after that they are able to guess again each night

all the slaves guess together are only able to guess once a day this will be done through voting during they day

they can only vote if they have slave that has been owned more than two nights

if they guess the successfully the oldest slave is freed who will know you are and will be able to tell the town (casue duh they gueesed correclty your the slave master

the salve will free himself during the night and the next day appear in town and be able to speak and tell town what they know mainly you are the slave master


if they slave master tries to kill the the oldest owned slave on third night they guessed correctly you were the slave master you don't kill them they escape

however due his injuries in the escape the following night the former salve will be able to use his night ability once then die due to his injuries.

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what this does if you choose to own a slave till the 3rd night to kill them and clean them you risk night that day 3 they guess who you are and escape on night you try to kill and clean them

each guess it becomes more and more likely they figure who you are it out cause a wrong guess is a person eliminated who you can't be

also the longer the game goes on the less people that are alive so it becomes easier to guess so its very risky to wait 3 nights kill them but the rewards is great because no one knowing anyone's roles that died but you is a huge power to have but it needs risks

also the more people you enslave the more people they have solving the problem of who you are during the day where you can't see them talking

even though each slave can only guess once before you kill them casue really your always gonna kill them on the 3rd night waiting any longer is pointless doing this gives them multiple times to try guess who you are and is very risky

this is the first solution i could think i spent alot of time on this hahahaah

[Gooose26]

you say they aren't dead dont mention anyway they can freed besides the slave master dying and that is problem casue you have all rdy lost so why does it matter if they are freed

if he has all people enslaved that aren't dead i assume the game ends?

does enslaving go through doctor heal and or target being jailed you didn't mention

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he should should not be able ensalve the GF or other NK that is to strong

there needs to a limit on the amount of slaves you can have

or a way slaves to can escape for real not just visiting a person and talking to them

cause there is no reason to ever kill them since they don't appear in the graveyard while enslaved you are essentially cleaning them why would u want to actually kill them you can just ensalve them all and win that way

and even if there was a reason to kill them which there isn't you would just wait 3 nights and kill them to clean there is no penalty or risk for waiting 3 night so why wouldn't you wait?

while the slave mechanic is unique it essentially a glorified way to say you kill and clean them and they go into a different graveyard then others and can talk to their killer,

yea if you die they are freed but again it doesn't matter casue you've already lost so who cares if they are freed and screw mafia over suddenly you won't care for sure

cause keeping them enslaved is essentially killing them cause i see no way they can become unenslaved unless you die but at that point you lost so why does it matter

my next post will be ways i think this can fixed

If players weren't freed after the slave master dies, and didn;t have the ability to whisper to free players, they would quit. Which would be considered gamethrowing. Enslaving would not pass the doc, or bg. If all are enslaved then game ends, yes.Why shouldn;t he kill gf and other nk? Werewolf does it, but he isn;t overpowered... i also must've accidently deleted the slave limit, it is 4. You aren't basically dead, you vote on who leaves to whisper, and you can get freed. Sure can't talk to a medium but that's it

[Mystoc]

edit ww can only attack every other night you role attacks every night and as it is now when it chooses to actually kill it will always be cleaned kill cause there's no reason to not wait till the 3rd night

ok i get you can vote for someone to talk and to an outsider and share what the slaves think with them and maybe they will have a guess who the slavemaster is

but it doesn't matter to slave master if you get freed or not , casue if your freed that means he lost

i'm not saying they shouldn't get freed if he dies i'm saying he wont care if they are freed

your voting every second night thing to talk to an outsider the mechanics of it isnt changed by the number of slaves or anything so he will just keep his max of 4 and just start killing each one once they are able to get killed and cleaned

so there isn't a reason to not just always wait to the 3rd night and kill and clean them which is insanely overpowered so

there needs to be drawback to keeping the slave the 3rd night

i said remove the vote whisper function and add an actual way to escape using the voting system besides the slavemaster dying

read my post above on how i think a slave could be able to escape i spent a lot time on it tell me what you think

[Gooose26]

Well I had just gone in a bit of contact with 1 of the moderators for TG, and he gave me a bit of insight on his thoughts, although it hasn't been introduced to the other moderators yet. I fell like he makes good points, however.

- Deprives players of their abilities, talking, and voting
- Cleaning can become too overpowered
- Swingy(? Apparently)

My(possible) fixes are as follows:
- Players will be able to freely escape a lot easier, but they will be *converted* into a Town (Slave) or Mafia (Slave) if they are town or mafia, essentially making them a citizen of their current faction
- Players may escape a little less, but they will be blackmailed the first day that they escape

The idea is to make it so that you aren't just a dead player after you are enslaved, and can be more useful afterwards, to prevent quitting. But I still want to have some limitations on how much slaves can do

Any other ideas? And as for Mystoc's idea:

The problem with your idea of escaping is that they will know who the Slave Master is, and will be able to sell him out as they will be confirmed to know who the Slave Master is. I think that is so underpowered and anti-synergy that it would make the role worse than Werewolf, honestly just take the 0.5 kpn with enslaving killing. I'm sorry I didn't get an earlier response to you I just didn't want to do anything until after I got a bit of information for better criticism.

[Parallax7]

Well I had just gone in a bit of contact with 1 of the moderators for TG, and he gave me a bit of insight on his thoughts, although it hasn't been introduced to the other moderators yet. I fell like he makes good points, however.

- Deprives players of their abilities, talking, and voting
- Cleaning can become too overpowered
- Swingy(? Apparently)

My(possible) fixes are as follows:
- Players will be able to freely escape a lot easier, but they will be *converted* into a Town (Slave) or Mafia (Slave) if they are town or mafia, essentially making them a citizen of their current faction
- Players may escape a little less, but they will be blackmailed the first day that they escape

The idea is to make it so that you aren't just a dead player after you are enslaved, and can be more useful afterwards, to prevent quitting. But I still want to have some limitations on how much slaves can do

Any other ideas? And as for Mystoc's idea:

The problem with your idea of escaping is that they will know who the Slave Master is, and will be able to sell him out as they will be confirmed to know who the Slave Master is. I think that is so underpowered and anti-synergy that it would make the role worse than Werewolf, honestly just take the 0.5 kpn with enslaving killing. I'm sorry I didn't get an earlier response to you I just didn't want to do anything until after I got a bit of information for better criticism.

Conversion is fine so long it protects the integrity of the player's win condition, and doesn't drastically change their abilities. Nullifying people's abilities & attributes is acceptable; takes engagement away, but add they cannot be targeted during the day or night if they're enslaved. Voting the only exception.

[Mystoc]

did you not read my one page idea on how a slave could be able to escape?

and my issue with who the role currently is?

here is the first fix i though of

first change it so during they day the slave master cannot see what his slaves are saying during the day

only let him see what the salves say during the night

get rid this vote to visit and talk to someone thing is kind useless and replace it with this

once someone has been owned for more then 2 nights the slaves are able to guess who their master is to try to steal the key from him to get unchained each night after that they are able to guess again each night

all the slaves guess together are only able to guess once a day this will be done through voting during they day

they can only vote if they have slave that has been owned more than two nights

if they guess the successfully the oldest slave is freed who will know you are and will be able to tell the town (casue duh they gueesed correclty your the slave master

the salve will free himself during the night and the next day appear in town and be able to speak and tell town what they know mainly you are the slave master


if they slave master tries to kill the the oldest owned slave on third night they guessed correctly you were the slave master you don't kill them they escape

however due his injuries in the escape the following night the former salve will be able to use his night ability once then die due to his injuries.

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what this does if you choose to own a slave till the 3rd night to kill them and clean them you risk night that day 3 they guess who you are and escape on night you try to kill and clean them

each guess it becomes more and more likely they figure who you are it out cause a wrong guess is a person eliminated who you can't be

also the longer the game goes on the less people that are alive so it becomes easier to guess so its very risky to wait 3 nights kill them but the rewards is great because no one knowing anyone's roles that died but you is a huge power to have but it needs risks

also the more people you enslave the more people they have solving the problem of who you are during the day where you can't see them talking

even though each slave can only guess once before you kill them casue really your always gonna kill them on the 3rd night waiting any longer is pointless doing this gives them multiple times to try guess who you are and is very risky

typed this also never got a response what issues i saw

edit ww can only attack every other night you role attacks every night and as it is now when it chooses to actually kill and can enslave gf and other NK it will always be cleaned kill cause there's no reason to not wait till the 3rd night

ok i get you can vote for someone to talk and to an outsider and share what the slaves think with them and maybe they will have a guess who the slavemaster is

but it doesn't matter to slave master if you get freed or not , casue if your freed that means he lost

i'm not saying they shouldn't get freed if he dies i'm saying he wont care if they are freed

your voting every second night thing to talk to an outsider the mechanics of it isnt changed by the number of slaves or anything so he will just keep his max of 4 and just start killing each one once they are able to get killed and cleaned

so there isn't a reason to not just always wait to the 3rd night and kill and clean them which is insanely overpowered so

there needs to be drawback to keeping the slave the 3rd night

i said remove the vote whisper function and add an actual way to escape using the voting system besides the slavemaster dying

read my post above on how i think a slave could be able to escape i spent a lot time on it tell me what you think

[Gooose26]

Yea, I still have the same response. If they get the slave master guessed, the slave master is immediately dead that day. If they can talk during the day then why would they talk at night where the slave master can see. Nobody should learn who the slave master is by being a slave.

[Gooose26]

Alright I updated the role as I saw fit to account for what was given to fix it. I believe it's a pretty good change. Whatta you think?

[Parallax7]

Alright I updated the role as I saw fit to account for what was given to fix it. I believe it's a pretty good change. Whatta you think?

I like the changes.

Still support the role.

[Mystoc]

you took down it slaving/killing power but there still no way for slaves to escape besides the masters death and like i said before the master doesn't care if he dies cause if hes dead hes lost anyway

i see no slave limit so i would just keep getting slaves and never kill them so there roles dont appear in the graveyard

you've state before if all are slaves the game ends

this a lot more balanced then before but there needs to be a slave limit otherwise it basicly just kills them and never shows there role you need a reason to kill your slave

[Gooose26]

you took down it slaving/killing power but there still no way for slaves to escape besides the masters death and like i said before the master doesn't care if he dies cause if hes dead hes lost anyway

i see no slave limit so i would just keep getting slaves and never kill them so there roles dont appear in the graveyard

you've state before if all are slaves the game ends

this a lot more balanced then before but there needs to be a slave limit otherwise it basicly just kills them and never shows there role you need a reason to kill your slave

Slaves are no longer taken off the map or anything, they will just be converted into the slave role with the same goal. But the idea is that with the killing power being lowered, the end of the game would be like day 4 if you only enslaved players who make it to the end, and then they can't vote anybody up.

Another idea: Should slaves show up in the graveyard as their original role or as a slave?

[Mystoc]

now that i get it it kinda makes sense he sorta is converting them but to be losers if they are all converted he also has the option to kill a slave that's already slave

thing is they will only ever be a slave killed for every other night cause why wouldn't u always kill a slave on the night your allowed

this seems very similar to asro now cause the douse kinda represents death srota like bing a salve

if they died with name slave this may make it better then asro but you would also have to delete there will cause people put roles in wills

suggestion

the slave master can choose not to kill on the night hes allowed to kill it store up a kill charge so on the second kill night he can kill twice but then counter is reset to one

[Gooose26]

now that i get it it kinda makes sense he sorta is converting them but to be losers if they are all converted he also has the option to kill a slave that's already slave

thing is they will only ever be a slave killed for every other night cause why wouldn't u always kill a slave on the night your allowed

this seems very similar to asro now cause the douse kinda represents death srota like bing a salve

if they died with name slave this may make it better then asro but you would also have to delete there will cause people put roles in wills

suggestion

the slave master can choose not to kill on the night hes allowed to kill it store up a kill charge so on the second kill night he can kill twice but then counter is reset to one

He can kill whoever he wants, doesn't have to be a slave. But he can enslave whoever he wants as well, but wont work on immune targets...(nk, survivor(possibly), godfather)

[Mystoc]

oh ok this very strong then he can kill each night sorta

1 death is permanent other night its sorta like your killing them casue once a slave if all are slaves you loose the game

seems to strong to me now i thought it could only kill slaves

[Gooose26]

oh ok this very strong then he can kill each night sorta

1 death is permanent other night its sorta like your killing them casue once a slave if all are slaves you loose the game

seems to strong to me now i thought it could only kill slaves

Well then a question stands: How can we buff it?

- Slaves no longer account for overall votea needed
- Slaves can still vote, but will show up as slave in the graveyard
- Screw the Spy

That is if people agree with you that it's overpowered

[Mystoc]

i dont think he should be able to kill anyone then make anyone a slave ever other night

i like the idea that he can only kill slaves but has it stands now he will just always kill them the night after he makes them a slave there is no reason for to allow them to live more then 1 night

perhaps the more slaves he has the more powerful hes get there should be a reason he doesn't want to kill his slaves risk reward ect

this just a rough idea i came up with you can prolly do better

1 slave - slavemaster roleblock immune
2 slaves - slavemaster detection immune
3 slaves - slavemaster sheriff immune
4 slaves - slaves can't use abilities anymore / talk anymore
5 slaves - slaves can't vote anymore
6 slaves - controls slaves vote they all vote who he votes

also let him store up kills if he chooses not to kill

if he doesn't choose to kill a night he can kill 2 slaves the next night he allowed to kill 2 slaves (but then its reset to only one)
-sorta like he stores up the kill if he doesn't use it

[Gooose26]

Why are all these random things needed to be added. The idea: Debuffs players, an idea I had lore-wise was that this would be a cool role for the coven/cult that could curse players, but like that. But this is currently a neutral killing, so a mix of slaves and killing.

Kill system aavw up would be a nea role, why limit a million things to this role?
Store up system would be a nea role, why likit a million things to this role?
Amount of slaves could be an interesting topic, but I don't like the idea thwt you can't just kill aomebody if they aren't a slavw unless yiu waste a night to enslave them(I don't ever, ever, want you to use Werewolf as a defense point against this. Werewolf isn't balanced. Don't know what you're going to say but don't say that crap xD)

i dont think he should be able to kill anyone then make anyone a slave ever other night

Why?

[Mystoc]

yea u asked what i should be added instead you don't like what i suggest or anything i have suggested explained why multiple time gonna leave this role alone said i what i wanted too not repeating myself

[Gooose26]

yea u asked what i should be added instead you don't like what i suggest or anything i have suggested explained why multiple time gonna leave this role alone said i what i wanted too not repeating myself

I didn't mean that it was terrible. Just saying that you replaced the current ideas. And the question is why. Why don't you like the current way it is? Overpowered is a simple idea and very possible, but that shouldn't mean that the current concepts should be replaced, just nerfed. But you suggested that we should replace the concepts. So the simple question, why?

[Mystoc]

the way it is boring cause has soon has you get enslaved you know you will just killed the next night there is no reason to keep the slave alive which breaks the idea of the slave mechanic and makes the role much more boring all rdy said this i guess i am repeating myself you never respond directly its always why this why that and i all rdy typed why its very frustrating i think this role is cool its just the slave mechanic is rarely used now cause they die soon after becoming slaves

like go look at the paragraphs of stuff i typed about this role and u always respond with 2 sentence responses that address like 1/5 of the stuff i just spent a long time thinking about
and then you ask why but look up what i just typed its there its very frustrating it makes want to give up this role and helping it get better cause your responses are so vague and it makes me wonder if you even read what i typed cause you ask question to stuff i already explained my reasoning to

not sure if i'm gonna leave feedback on this anymore tbh