Rogue (Neutral Evil) (8000+ Views!) (Overhauled)

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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1400+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Wed May 10, 2017 10:08 am

Mystoc wrote:the balance of it is irrelevant its following the consistency of the game rules BMG has it so unquie role means there can only ever be one of it in the game no exceptions ww is unquie

also becoming the NK may be to strong even with asro or sk cause u really giving them them two lives since you take over right after you die

That's the point, to buff NK. A competent town without horrendously bad luck should be able to figure out the NK anyway. GF and Mafioso are also technically unique, but they can be replaced in the same way.

I really don't see how replacing a Werewolf is bad just because he's unique.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Wed May 10, 2017 4:33 pm

I also had another thought. What if he only became night immune AFTER he found an ally, like someone suggested earlier?
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Mystoc » Wed May 10, 2017 6:52 pm

thought that was all rdy changed

also

if u wanna see what people think about becoming NK role after they die make a poll about it i think its ok
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Wed May 10, 2017 7:37 pm

Mystoc wrote:thought that was all rdy changed

also

if u wanna see what people think about becoming NK role after they die make a poll about it i think its ok

Done. Now I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what becomes of the poll.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Gooose26 » Wed May 10, 2017 8:31 pm

Anti-mafia neutral evil? Needs to have the ability to help mafia...

i think it should become a witch at death, a neutral evil should never be given the ability to be so powerful, and Jester is okay but not that helpful to scum and already a thing so...
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Mystoc » Wed May 10, 2017 8:50 pm

yea but becoming a witch would just doesnt make sense , witch is all rdy a powerful role
there shouldn't be role that becomes them,

also getting witch wouldn't feel has good anymore cause you know you could get rogue and become witch anyway and have more options available to you

jester represents failure , you failed find a help your ally and they died so now you want to die with them morbid but it it is the perfect role to become

i don't see a problem with a NE the wants to help NK it is the lowest winrate after all.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Gooose26 » Wed May 10, 2017 9:09 pm

Mystoc wrote:yea but becoming a witch would just doesnt make sense , witch is all rdy a powerful role
there shouldn't be role that becomes them,

also getting witch wouldn't feel has good anymore cause you know you could get rogue and become witch anyway and have more options available to you

jester represents failure , you failed find a help your ally and they died so now you want to die with them morbid but it it is the perfect role to become

i don't see a problem with a NE the wants to help NK it is the lowest winrate after all.

You do understand that the Jester wins by dying, and can kill aomebody afterwards... so death is a victory, not a failure. Witch can't kill, only stall, and helps scum. Helping only the nk means that the mafia will now become the low winrate...
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Mystoc » Wed May 10, 2017 10:25 pm

you thinking wanting to die is a victory, the jester is sad soul in his eyes its his victory casue he doesn't want to live anymore. failing to find your ally and watching them die makes you wish to die that is why its your goal ,

putting aside the lore of it you shouldn't be rewarding for failing

witch is a good role to be on it own , you should not rewarded for failing your goal, no role should ever become witch its the most powerful non killing role in the game

OP made this role to help NK not mafia

yes witch helps all evils but that's not the point like i said before becoming witch was a bad idea, casue getting witch would feels less special casue you know you coulda been rogue had the option to become and NK friend and then if you failed you becomes witch

if this was the case who would every want to be witch when you can be rogue and later on become witch for FAILING your roles goal

jester represents failure cause it goal = wishing for a public death so everyone can witness there failure

witch is strong on its own and should never a role you turn into
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Thu May 11, 2017 5:20 am

Mystoc wrote:you thinking wanting to die is a victory, the jester is sad soul in his eyes its his victory casue he doesn't want to live anymore. failing to find your ally and watching them die makes you wish to die that is why its your goal ,

putting aside the lore of it you shouldn't be rewarding for failing

witch is a good role to be on it own , you should not rewarded for failing your goal, no role should ever become witch its the most powerful non killing role in the game

OP made this role to help NK not mafia

yes witch helps all evils but that's not the point like i said before becoming witch was a bad idea, casue getting witch would feels less special casue you know you coulda been rogue had the option to become and NK friend and then if you failed you becomes witch

if this was the case who would every want to be witch when you can be rogue and later on become witch for FAILING your roles goal

jester represents failure cause it goal = wishing for a public death so everyone can witness there failure

witch is strong on its own and should never a role you turn into

Yeah, this. If a Rogue is competent, he will be more interested in taking out the town than the Mafia, so it (to an extent) does help out the Mafia anyway.

Rogues would definitely become a Jester after all NKs die if they had no ally, but if they DID have one and they got hung, becoming the new NK seems to be a reasonable buff to the faction with the lowest winrate.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Mystoc » Thu May 11, 2017 8:51 am

i agree i would add a poll what people think , just ignore the ww is unique role maybe testing grounds or BMG would allow it

what if you became their killing role but lost night immunity part of it seems a little more balanced to me?

if you won your dead ally would win right?

also i would remove the rb all visitors cause if more then two people visit your ally and all report they were rbed it would out your ally right away, also it doesn't need the rb part if it becomes the killers role after it dies

maybe add a 2 charge buff that changes there sheriff/inves results to yours and makes them immune to LO for the night
(maybe to strong but this rb interaction is abusable and doesn't really make sense)
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Thu May 11, 2017 10:23 am

Mystoc wrote:i agree i would add a poll what people think , just ignore the ww is unique role maybe testing grounds or BMG would allow it

what if you became their killing role but lost night immunity part of it seems a little more balanced to me?

if you won your dead ally would win right?

also i would remove the rb all visitors cause if more then two people visit your ally and all report they were rbed it would out your ally right away, also it doesn't need the rb part if it becomes the killers role after it dies

maybe add a 2 charge buff that changes there sheriff/inves results to yours and makes them immune to LO for the night
(maybe to strong but this rb interaction is abusable and doesn't really make sense)

That's a good point. Now that I added the part of replacing the Neutral Killer, the roleblocking visitors part seems unnecessary now. I'll get rid of it.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Mystoc » Thu May 11, 2017 10:43 am

You are night immune.

plz change this to you are night immune once you find your ally , this is very misleading
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Thu May 11, 2017 11:33 am

Mystoc wrote:You are night immune.

plz change this to you are night immune once you find your ally , this is very misleading

Done. Thank you for reminding me of this.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Mystoc » Thu May 11, 2017 12:03 pm

since you gave it a few buffs im not sure if needs to be able to check two people a night or just one (i'm thinking one now is enough cause replacing your ally once they die is very powerful ability one should check a night should be enough of risk reward for this)

edit typo there
If all Neutral Killing roles die, yand you did not find an ally beforehand, you will become a Jester.


and you never specified if your ally dies and you take over for them that they can win too if you win (i think they should)
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Thu May 11, 2017 12:35 pm

Mystoc wrote:since you gave it a few buffs im not sure if needs to be able to check two people a night or just one (i'm thinking one now is enough cause replacing your ally once they die is very powerful ability one should check a night should be enough of risk reward for this)

edit typo there
If all Neutral Killing roles die, yand you did not find an ally beforehand, you will become a Jester.


and you never specified if your ally dies and you take over for them that they can win too if you win (i think they should)

I thought it went without saying, but yes... since you become their role when they die, if you win the game as NK, your ally (along with any other NKs of the same role) will still win. And, of course, so will any living Witches and Survivors.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Mystoc » Thu May 11, 2017 12:46 pm

looks balanced to me now dont see anything wrong with it
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Fri May 12, 2017 6:34 am

Mystoc wrote:looks balanced to me now dont see anything wrong with it

Thanks for being active in replying thus far! Now I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what people think...
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby SypieDypie » Fri May 12, 2017 7:30 am

I like the investigative result because Rogue can claim Spy b/c reading whispers, and make up mafia chats.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (1600+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Fri May 12, 2017 8:42 am

SypieDypie wrote:I like the investigative result because Rogue can claim Spy b/c reading whispers, and make up mafia chats.

Yep. Jailor and Mayor may as well have their own Investigator results, because no Blackmailer or Consigliere will claim Jailor or Mayor when pressed by an Investigator.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (2000+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Tue May 30, 2017 10:00 am

Welp, after all this time, I'm gonna submit this to the TG staff. Let's see how much cancer it winds up giving them when they read it. :)
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (2200+ Views!)

Postby Cirque » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:37 pm

I really LOVE this role idea! You are the first person I have ever really liked a role from. This is a MUCH needed buff for NKs and I always thought of NKs needing somebody to work with and this is PEFECT. This could comepletly change the game. Amazing!

I really hope that this gets to the Testing Grounds!

/support
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (2200+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:05 pm

Cirque wrote:I really LOVE this role idea! You are the first person I have ever really liked a role from. This is a MUCH needed buff for NKs and I always thought of NKs needing somebody to work with and this is PEFECT. This could comepletly change the game. Amazing!

I really hope that this gets to the Testing Grounds!

/support

Thank you, I appreciate it. :)

That said, just because this role might be FUN doesn't make it balanced...
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (2200+ Views!)

Postby SirMeowsmith » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:31 pm

I think they should become Witch instead of jester.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (2200+ Views!)

Postby Venusupreme » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:38 pm

SirMeowsmith wrote:I think they should become Witch instead of jester.

That doesn't really make much sense... but balance > lore, so if you have a good idea for why this should be I'm open to hear it.
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Re: Rogue (Neutral Evil) (2200+ Views!)

Postby StormWolfster » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:26 am

I really like this, but change the name. It doesn't really work because he doesn't want to be a rogue reallly, he wants to be a team. Also, I suggested a role called rogue, and idk what to call it other than that lol ;). Another thing is, expand allies to all neutrals, and make it so you only have 3 chances. So if you're allies die 3 times you become a jester whether or not there are more neutrals left.

Btw, if you want me to change the name of mine, here's a link so you can check it out and suggest what name I should give it since I honestly am having a blank. viewtopic.php?f=27&t=70277
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