Rogue (Neutral Evil) (8000+ Views!) (Overhauled)

[Venusupreme]

I actually like the concept of the role, but I think it could do without roleblocking everything that visits it. There needs to be some sort of risk factor that your ally will get screwed over. Perhaps it roleblocks people with "malicious intent" (e.g other killing roles (Jailor, Vigilante, Mafioso/GF, Other NKs)).

Must have missed this reply back when I posted this.

You do make a good point, I suppose. If it roleblocks people who try to investigate their ally, then after it finds an ally, sheriff should be able to see him as a rogue and invest will go from Spy/BMer/Rogue to just Rogue.

[Venusupreme]

I edited the role slightly to fit the requests of several players who replied. I don't normally like bumping threads, but I really like this idea, and would like some more feedback...

[Mystoc]

You are night immune until you find an ally.

heres what i would do wait not try find my ally till late game so i keep night immunity casue you can still help them win if you arent there ally? unofficially

i mean i know being their ally lets you know who they are and vise versa and rb vistors
but can it win if the NK wins without being its official ally casue if yes i would just not try find them to keep night immunity


its other win conditions doesnt makes sense live to see town and mafia die how will it do this when it has no killing power itself it has essentially a survior that must kill everyone to win this needs to change

here is what i suggest

you need to give it a reason to find its ally it should be the other way around that you get night immunity when your ally is found

if you find your ally and if your ally dies (or allies since NK can be any)

you can and keep the night immunity but can side with any evil now not just NK

(i reason you know you arent powerful enough on your own to defeat town so you need powerful evils on your side so mafia and other NE are good allies)

if you never find your ally you before they die you should become jester casue you want to die now casue your only friend is dead and you didnt help them at all so all you desire is death

has it stands now i think its to hard to find your NK ally with only one check a night i would allow two checks a night (with a transporter like interface)

[Venusupreme]

You are night immune until you find an ally.

heres what i would do wait not try find my ally till late game so i keep night immunity casue you can still help them win if you arent there ally? unofficially

i mean i know being their ally lets you know who they are and vise versa and rb vistors
but can it win if the NK wins without being its official ally casue if yes i would just not try find them to keep night immunity


its other win conditions doesnt makes sense live to see town and mafia die how will it do this when it has no killing power itself it has essentially a survior that must kill everyone to win this needs to change

here is what i suggest

you need to give it a reason to find its ally it should be the other way around that you get night immunity when your ally is found

if you find your ally and if your ally dies (or allies since NK can be any)

you can and keep the night immunity but can side with any evil now not just NK

(i reason you know you arent powerful enough on your own to defeat town so you need powerful evils on your side so mafia and other NE are good allies)

if you never find your ally you before they die you should become jester casue you want to die now casue your only friend is dead and you didnt help them at all so all you desire is death

has it stands now i think its to hard to find your NK ally with only one check a night i would allow two checks a night (with a transporter like interface)

The night immunity thing was a mistake on my part, I'm not sure what I was thinking there. I'll get to that. As for not defeating town on its own, I added the ability to attack one person per night after all NK roles are dead to solve the problem of being helpless when all NKs are dead.

[Mystoc]

The night immunity thing was a mistake on my part, I'm not sure what I was thinking there. I'll get to that. As for not defeating town on its own, I added the ability to attack one person per night after all NK roles are dead to solve the problem of being helpless when all NKs are dead.

eh then its sorta like an evil anmesiac thats always remembers sk though i dont like that and is also to strong

i feel my soultion was better

your goal is defeat town AND mafia though , not just town

you only responded to about half the stuff i said what are your thoughts on the other stuff?

[Venusupreme]

The night immunity thing was a mistake on my part, I'm not sure what I was thinking there. I'll get to that. As for not defeating town on its own, I added the ability to attack one person per night after all NK roles are dead to solve the problem of being helpless when all NKs are dead.

eh then its sorta like an evil anmesiac thats always remembers sk though i dont like that and is also to strong

i feel my soultion was better

your goal is defeat town AND mafia though , not just town

you only responded to about half the stuff i said what are your thoughts on the other stuff?

I see where you're coming from with the siding with any evil afterwards, though that somewhat defeats the purpose of this role. It is like an evil amnesiac in a way, but at the same time, it's a neutral evil and not a neutral killing.

[Mystoc]

see to me it makes sense it it doesnt find its ally before he dies he becomes jestor

the thing is what should happen if he finds his ally then they die thats the question

its hard to think what role the rougue should play in the game after his ally dies and he all rdy found him

pretty hard to balance also.

[Mystoc]

should only be able to ally with NK ,

i suggested let the role check two people each night since instead of one cause it has no night immunity during that time

if all NK die before it can find ally it becomes jestor

if it allies with NK and then NK dies make it remain rogue but loose its night immunity but now it can win with any evil role.

that seems the most fair solution to me

[xXIllegalPotatoXx]

Seems like a sk with the ability to get the entire game on his side. Seriously overpowerd. Check out my version of pretty much the same thing for ideas.

Mercanary/Rouge
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=66103

[Mystoc]

yea don't post link to your ideas in others threads against rules

also you clearly didn't take them to read the whole role

[Venusupreme]

What if an NK gets lynched D2?

Hmm... maybe the Rogue should be able to make allies with any Neutral role then, just so that the entire game doesn't get fucked up for the rogue that early.

EDIT: Scratch this, I just changed it so that the Rogue doesn't NEED to make an ally to win, he just has to eliminate Town, Mafia, and Vamps.

The threat of an NK dying early in still stands, but hey, Witches and Amnesiacs can die night 2. Shit happens sometimes.

True, but if you get killed as a witch or Anne, it's ok you.

You should not be nerfed to the ground because someone else got busted.

Let's be honest here, if the NK doesn't win, Rogue might as well suicide. How many times have you seen a Surv or Witch solo win in your entire TOS career?

Perhaps then, it should become a jester or else have the NK pass the torch onto them (quite literally in the case of the Arsonist) so that the Rogue becomes the new SK/Arso/Werewolf like a Mafioso becomes the new GF upon his death.

[Mystoc]

yea it makes sense lore wise that you would take the killers place if you are the ally i just feel it might be to strong the balance wise cause hes essiently is giving the NK two lives and would they win if you won the game kinda like SK works atm if theirs two sks.

also WW is an unique role this would break the rule the there can only ever be one in the game if you could become it after it died, it feels to much like amnesiac to me and even amnesiac cant remember WW

i would change it to what you said and start a poll to see what others think besides me

[Venusupreme]

yea it makes sense lore wise that you would take the killers place if you are the ally i just feel it might be to strong the balance wise cause hes essiently is giving the NK two lives and would they win if you won the game kinda like SK works atm if theirs two sks.

also WW is an unique role this would break the rule the there can only ever be one in the game if you could become it after it died, it feels to much like amnesiac to me and even amnesiac cant remember WW

i would change it to what you said and start a poll to see what others think besides me

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "change it to what you said". But the point of a Rogue is to buff NKs, which are already the weakest alignment in Ranked mode. As for WW being exclusive, Godfather and Mafioso are exclusive too, but when they die, other Mafia can take their place. The same idea is true with the Rogue turning into a Werewolf. It wouldn't be overpowered since in order for him to do this, the original Werewolf would have to die first, anyway.

It indirectly helps the Mafia too, a little bit, because odds are this would end up harming Town more than Mafia, unless they got some seriously bad luck.

[Mystoc]

yea it makes sense lore wise that you would take the killers place if you are the ally i just feel it might be to strong the balance wise cause hes essiently is giving the NK two lives and would they win if you won the game kinda like SK works atm if theirs two sks.

also WW is an unique role this would break the rule the there can only ever be one in the game if you could become it after it died, it feels to much like amnesiac to me and even amnesiac cant remember WW

i would change it to what you said and start a poll to see what others think besides me

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "change it to what you said". But the point of a Rogue is to buff NKs, which are already the weakest alignment in Ranked mode. As for WW being exclusive, Godfather and Mafioso are exclusive too, but when they die, other Mafia can take their place. The same idea is true with the Rogue turning into a Werewolf. It wouldn't be overpowered since in order for him to do this, the original Werewolf would have to die first, anyway.

It indirectly helps the Mafia too, a little bit, because odds are this would end up harming Town more than Mafia, unless they got some seriously bad luck.

i meant the rouge taking there place as the killer after they die

thing is i agree its balanced to be ww but anmesiaic cant be ww even after its dead cause it breaks the unique tag rules for the game, testing ground wont like that it ignores unique tag rules thats all i'm saying,

also if you were to take your allies place would they win if you won even though they are dead?


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what if you became there role but had no night immunity thoughts? that would balance the OPness of unfairness of giving the NK two lives

[jewishjordan]

Making it even possible for two SK's to chat at night is horribly OP. I'd remove that.

Other than that, eh. I like it but it's too heavily sided against mafia, Neutral evils shouldn't be limited to helping one evil faction.

Hmm... yeah, you're probably right. I guess I'll remove that. As for being too heavily sided against the mafia, the point of this role is to buff NK roles. If it can side with either the Mafia OR an NK, the mafia will probably exploit its lack of night immunity to force him to help them.

its just part of the game guys. don't you think 2 sk's are op enough?

[Mystoc]

well anemsaic can remember sk and there can be 3 sks all rdy in a game same with asro

only unbalanced interaction is ww

[Venusupreme]

A competent town can use scumreading and VFR to figure them out anyway, even without TIs. I really don't see how it taking the place of SK or Arso is okay, but not WW. WW is unique because having more them at once would be ridiculous, but that won't matter, since Rogues would only become a Werewolf after the original died.

[Mystoc]

the balance of it is irrelevant its following the consistency of the game rules BMG has it so unquie role means there can only ever be one of it in the game no exceptions ww is unquie

also becoming the NK may be to strong even with asro or sk cause u really giving them them two lives since you take over right after you die

[Venusupreme]

the balance of it is irrelevant its following the consistency of the game rules BMG has it so unquie role means there can only ever be one of it in the game no exceptions ww is unquie

also becoming the NK may be to strong even with asro or sk cause u really giving them them two lives since you take over right after you die

That's the point, to buff NK. A competent town without horrendously bad luck should be able to figure out the NK anyway. GF and Mafioso are also technically unique, but they can be replaced in the same way.

I really don't see how replacing a Werewolf is bad just because he's unique.

[Venusupreme]

I also had another thought. What if he only became night immune AFTER he found an ally, like someone suggested earlier?

[Mystoc]

thought that was all rdy changed

also

if u wanna see what people think about becoming NK role after they die make a poll about it i think its ok

[Venusupreme]

thought that was all rdy changed

also

if u wanna see what people think about becoming NK role after they die make a poll about it i think its ok

Done. Now I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what becomes of the poll.

[Gooose26]

Anti-mafia neutral evil? Needs to have the ability to help mafia...

i think it should become a witch at death, a neutral evil should never be given the ability to be so powerful, and Jester is okay but not that helpful to scum and already a thing so...

[Mystoc]

yea but becoming a witch would just doesnt make sense , witch is all rdy a powerful role
there shouldn't be role that becomes them,

also getting witch wouldn't feel has good anymore cause you know you could get rogue and become witch anyway and have more options available to you

jester represents failure , you failed find a help your ally and they died so now you want to die with them morbid but it it is the perfect role to become

i don't see a problem with a NE the wants to help NK it is the lowest winrate after all.

[Gooose26]

yea but becoming a witch would just doesnt make sense , witch is all rdy a powerful role
there shouldn't be role that becomes them,

also getting witch wouldn't feel has good anymore cause you know you could get rogue and become witch anyway and have more options available to you

jester represents failure , you failed find a help your ally and they died so now you want to die with them morbid but it it is the perfect role to become

i don't see a problem with a NE the wants to help NK it is the lowest winrate after all.

You do understand that the Jester wins by dying, and can kill aomebody afterwards... so death is a victory, not a failure. Witch can't kill, only stall, and helps scum. Helping only the nk means that the mafia will now become the low winrate...