Polymath (Neutral Benign)

[Skulomania]

I agree with you completely on NB getting a bad reputation, and I think this is a balanced role with a lot of potential, as others have said. Also, I love the name and inspiration - it's really creative. I've always wanted an intellectual or philosophical role in the game, considering how many roles are murderers or brute force users. Well done!

Thank you for your positive feedback!

I think you are the first to comment on the name and my inspiration, so thank you. Its nice to get recognition for the finer details like that.

And yeah with all the other role alignments having the limitations of ' kill all mafia,evil,town etc' , the Neutral Benign role has that capability to be extremely unique in its makeup.

And if you want to see an intellectual/philosophical role in the game(as do I), then my next project/addition to this role i think you will definitely like. Although it won't be out for a little awhile. So stay tuned.

[TehLonelyNinja]

While this role is very creative, it also seems very complex. Personally, I feel as if it is useless to every other role in the game, HOWEVER, it could be a very interesting challenge in the game.

[Cenas4life]

While this role is very creative, it also seems very complex. Personally, I feel as if it is useless to every other role in the game, HOWEVER, it could be a very interesting challenge in the game.

It could affect the other roles, by giving away information about which faction an individual is in.

[Skulomania]

While this role is very creative, it also seems very complex. Personally, I feel as if it is useless to every other role in the game, HOWEVER, it could be a very interesting challenge in the game.

Thank you for your positive feedback, however i suggest taking a read on the "Impact" section of the role to get an idea of the impact the role has on the other roles. Although i am going to roughly describe in this post how this role very much impacts every role in the game.

It may not directly impact each and every role in a game, but it impacts the highest-priority players in a game in a way that trickles down to every other member in that alignment and to every other role in every alignment, essentially impacting every role in the game, some directly and indirectly.

Here is an example of 1 sequence to show you how it impacts every role in the game. The leak of a jailor's identity to the mafia. And you will see the trickle effect to every role in the game, and thus will get a better idea of just how impactful the role can be, especially regarding multiple sequences or completely different sequences. Every sequence has its own unique impacts.

If the Polymath leaks the jailor's identity to the mafia (although not directly as the role simply gives the highest-priority player and not the role itself), the mafia can essentially kill the jailor at night. This sequence impacts every town role by decreasing its chances of winning, as it impacts the leaked player directly because it has died and every other town member because of the impact of their member's death. The sequence also impacts every mafia role including its highest priority player, because it gave them a target to kill and has increased their chances of winning, which impacts every mafia role regardless of who got the message. AND also the Neutral alignment is affected by this sequence because with the jailor dying, their chances have also increased and has also impacted a potential executioner who has just become a jester which has changed the playing field and etc. And then the sequence of leaking the mafia member to the neutrals has all these similar impacts and implications, and then the neutral's member being leaked to town has these impacts as well, and etc and etc if you loop the alignment order. So you get the idea.

So yeah, the role i believe has tremendous impact on the game and all the alignments, and what makes it even better is that its impact is balanced and fair. Its impact is also what makes the role essentially hunted by every alignment, which is what makes the role such a unique, fun, and challenging Neutral Benign.

[Crazyzombie168]

I like this role, but I didn't get it that much. By "leader" do you mean the role that the evils would want to kill most? Either way I like it.

[Skulomania]

I like this role, but I didn't get it that much. By "leader" do you mean the role that the evils would want to kill most? Either way I like it.

Thank you for your positive feedback.

"Leaders" in the rolecard is essentially a different word used for highest priority player. So if you're asking what the leaders are, they are the highest priority players in their respective alignment. If you are asking the measure in which priority is calculated, it is simply what role is perceived the most impactful and important to their alignment.

If you're unclear about anything feel free to let me know and I will do my best to explain it to you.

Note: I actually recently moved up Blackmailer in the priority list due to to the update changes. So the priority list is flexible in the sense that it changes accordingly to updates. I was debating changing the Mayor's ranking but I figured potentially having information leaked to the individual that has the voting power of 3 people is extremely valuable, regardless of if the role can't whisper now.

[Crazyzombie168]

So basically the most dangerous role in the alignment?

[Skulomania]

So basically the most dangerous role in the alignment?

The most important and impactful, so dangerous could be another word for it but it is not the exact meaning.

Vigilante can be potentially dangerous but it is not high in the ranking list because it does not hold as much importance and impact as other roles that are higher on the list, like its TI and TP counterparts. (however veteran is high because of its extremely impactful nature)

[Crazyzombie168]

So basically the most dangerous role in the alignment?

The most important and impactful, so dangerous could be another word for it but it is not the exact meaning.

Vigilante can be potentially dangerous but it is not high in the ranking list because it does not hold as much importance and impact as other roles that are higher on the list, like its TI and TP counterparts. (however veteran is high because of its extremely impactful nature)

Yeah I fully get it now. I also like how it tell the other factions who the leader is. This gives players a reason to kill this role, which is always needed.

[Skulomania]

Yeah I fully get it now. I also like how it tell the other factions who the leader is. This gives players a reason to kill this role, which is always needed.

I am glad you get it and that's exactly the reasoning behind making its ability extend to leaking the information. It may be a Neutral Benign, but it can be the highest targeted role in a game given the proper circumstances.

For example, imagine the role has just leaked the information of the retributionist to the mafia. The catch is not that the mafia kill the retributionist before it revives(which is huge for the mafia), but that now they know they are going to get their identity leaked to the Serial Killer soon, and so they must act fast.(implying the NK is alive by the time the identity is leaked and in the game) Now if the SK gets its hands on the identity of potentially the GF/Mafioso, the SK has extreme leverage to use, as it could either fakeclaim an invest role and have the person lynched, kill the individual, or if it is GF, it can expose them through a deathnote. If the deathnote mentions something like 'The Polymath leaked leader of mafia identity as #9", and now you can probably think to yourself, what if people use that as mindgames, people pretending to get information from the Polymath to validate their claims. So it definitely opens up a whole new deceptive playing field as well.

So yeah, this role definitely gives players(everyone) a reason to kill it, and which is why I like the role so much. But the best part is that the impact it has on the game, while powerful, is very balanced and fair; and its impacts are dynamic in the sense that every identity that is leaked has different consequences and at the time that they are leaked can hold different implications on the game.

[Crazyzombie168]

Yeah I fully get it now. I also like how it tell the other factions who the leader is. This gives players a reason to kill this role, which is always needed.

I am glad you get it and that's exactly the reasoning behind making its ability extend to leaking the information. It may be a Neutral Benign, but it can be the highest targeted role in a game given the proper circumstances.

For example, imagine the role has just leaked the information of the retributionist to the mafia. The catch is not that the mafia kill the retributionist before it revives(which is huge for the mafia), but that now they know they are going to get their identity leaked to the Serial Killer soon, and so they must act fast.(implying the NK is alive by the time the identity is leaked and in the game) Now if the SK gets its hands on the identity of potentially the GF/Mafioso, the SK has extreme leverage to use, as it could either fakeclaim an invest role and have the person lynched, kill the individual, or if it is GF, it can expose them through a deathnote. If the deathnote mentions something like 'The Polymath leaked leader of mafia identity as #9", and now you can probably think to yourself, what if people use that as mindgames, people pretending to get information from the Polymath to validate their claims. So it definitely opens up a whole new deceptive playing field as well.

So yeah, this role definitely gives players(everyone) a reason to kill it, and which is why I like the role so much. But the best part is that the impact it has on the game, while powerful, is very balanced and fair; and its impacts are dynamic in the sense that every identity that is leaked has different consequences and at the time that they are leaked can hold different implications on the game.

The Mafia can also side with this role if they find it and supply it with one of the leaders (if they have a consig) but they will haft to keep in mind the fact that it might end up finding the Mafia leader. They could give the Leader to this role, so they can ignore it, but it can just betray the Mafia by finding one leader and then just finding the Mafia leader. So this role would also be hard to trust with your life.

[Skulomania]

The Mafia can also side with this role if they find it and supply it with one of the leaders (if they have a consig) but they will haft to keep in mind the fact that it might end up finding the Mafia leader. They could give the Leader to this role, so they can ignore it, but it can just betray the Mafia by finding one leader and then just finding the Mafia leader. So this role would also be hard to trust with your life.

That is a very good point you make, and extremely true.

Due to the alignment order, it always goes Town -> Mafia -> Neutral. And because of this, the mafia always know that they will get the identity of a town member first before they are in danger of being exposed. And so if the consigliere actually finds the Polymath early, he could tell the mafia, and they would essentially wait for the Polymath to leak the town's member. Then when they get the leak, they kill the Polymath. (either after or before they kill the leaked town target, but even this strategy can pose risky in the sense that if they kill the town target and leave the polymath for one more day, it can potentially get lucky,or if the polymath is skilled, and find the leader of the mafia in 1 guess.)

Also to note though the Polymath is not betraying the mafia, as it has no allies, and its goal is to find at-least 2 out of the 3 the alignments, so it essentially must expose a mafia member if it wants to win. But your point of the mafia potentially exploiting the Polymath as a strategy is very true, and sad. Poor Polymath is just being used.

[Crazyzombie168]

The Mafia can also side with this role if they find it and supply it with one of the leaders (if they have a consig) but they will haft to keep in mind the fact that it might end up finding the Mafia leader. They could give the Leader to this role, so they can ignore it, but it can just betray the Mafia by finding one leader and then just finding the Mafia leader. So this role would also be hard to trust with your life.

That is a very good point you make, and extremely true.

Due to the alignment order, it always goes Town -> Mafia -> Neutral. And because of this, the mafia always know that they will get the identity of a town member first before they are in danger of being exposed. And so if the consigliere actually finds the Polymath early, he could tell the mafia, and they would essentially wait for the Polymath to leak the town's member. Then when they get the leak, they kill the Polymath. (either after or before they kill the leaked town target, but even this strategy can pose risky in the sense that if they kill the town target and leave the polymath for one more day, it can potentially get lucky,or if the polymath is skilled, and find the leader of the mafia in 1 guess.)

Also to note though the Polymath is not betraying the mafia, as it has no allies, and its goal is to find at-least 2 out of the 3 the alignments, so it essentially must expose a mafia member if it wants to win. But your point of the mafia potentially exploiting the Polymath as a strategy is very true, and sad. Poor Polymath is just being used.

Wait, there is an order? Never knew.

[Skulomania]

Wait, there is an order? Never knew.

Yeah, that is one of the ways I made the ability balanced. I re-quoted the section to show you, although I do suggest you read the additional information section, if you have not already. The role post is rather long, but all the detail is important.

-Your ability will only work identifying the players when following the Alignment Order. (Identifying town, mafia, neutral in that order and the order repeats if completed)--(Town and Mafia is the ideal scenario in order to reach your goal which is identifying 2 of the 3 alignments, if mafia gets eliminated ; Town and Neutral, if Town gets eliminated; Mafia and Neutral)
-The Notifying Alignment Order (Town,Mafia,Neutral) : Town's top priority player is told to mafia's top priority player, mafia's top priority player is told to neutral's top priority player, and neutral's top priority player is told to Town's top priority player. If Mafia die, the Neutral's player will be informed of Town's identity ; If Neutral die, Town will be informed of Mafia's identity. If Town die, the Mafia will be informed of Neutral's top player.

[Fenraiser]

Honestly, as of right now, I can think of no other suggestions that can help you.

I especially like the new dynamic the polymath would have on the game. It is entirely unique, and it is as neutral (and benign) as you can possibly get. It is also a huge target with its capabilities. It wouldn't be an easy win, and would require skill and great scum reading/reverse scum reading to do.

Although, I'd wonder if this role as of 8/9/2016 were implemented in the game, would players lynch it on the spot? Probably not, since all factions would want to use the polymath to their advantage. That is also another thing the polymath might rarely face.

Overall, awesome!

(Cannot think of constructive criticism at the moment).

[hillyhawk]

I'm really impressed with the detail you've put into it - a lot more detail than I could put into something like this! - and I think this would work really well in the game! It's suitably balanced, and it allows a specifically investigative role to appear in all three superfactions. I would love to see this implemented for sure.

One quick question though... with the neutral order, where does the vampire fit in for it?

/support

[Skulomania]

Honestly, as of right now, I can think of no other suggestions that can help you.

I especially like the new dynamic the polymath would have on the game. It is entirely unique, and it is as neutral (and benign) as you can possibly get. It is also a huge target with its capabilities. It wouldn't be an easy win, and would require skill and great scum reading/reverse scum reading to do.

Although, I'd wonder if this role as of 8/9/2016 were implemented in the game, would players lynch it on the spot? Probably not, since all factions would want to use the polymath to their advantage. That is also another thing the polymath might rarely face.

Overall, awesome!

(Cannot think of constructive criticism at the moment).

Thank you for your positive feedback, and your positive points on the role are spot on, and i can see that you understand the role well.

And you bring up a good question. Obviously it differs for game modes, but in a normal ranked game, it is essentially not in the best interest for town to even remotely attempt to exploit the Polymath. And i use the term 'exploit' because there is no 'teaming up' with the Polymath. The reason why it is not in towns best interest is because of the alignment order, which was purposefully made to ensure that the role is an immediate threat to Town. There is no 'claiming polymath d1' or 'becoming town'. There is also no claiming Polymath for scum. This role is completely unique and its effects impact everyone, but starting with town.

The mafia, as discussed a bit earlier, has room to exploit the role and potentially not lynch/kill it, but with the alignment order, it forces mafia to target the Polymath potentially in the middle of the game. So while the mafia can exploit the role early, it will eventually have to get rid of it/find it unless they want their winning chances to decrease (if NK is alive). However, the Polymath's impact can vary, as it could also potentially inform the Witch of who the mafia is, which can be a good and bad thing. But is it worth the risk? The mafia have more room to strategist, although the Polymath poses as a threat nonetheless there. Note: The survivor may even get their hands on the information, causing them to decide and strategize on if they want to team up with the mafia or expose them and team up with town, or the NK, etc and etc. The strategy, implications and impacts of the identities leaked are as endless as one's imagination.

The Neutral alignment has a bit of a grey area, in that sense that Neutral Killings are essentially safe from exposure. However NE, NB and NC(will add) can be quite negatively impacted by their identity being leaked to town, as it could detrimentally decrease their chances of winning.

And this is not including all the dynamic changes that occur if an alignment is eliminated, in the sense that the information is leaked to the next alignment, so if all the neutrals are dead, a mafia identity being leaked to the town can be absolutely devastating, and so on and so on. The strategies and impact change as the circumstances unfold.

If you come up with any feedback that brings up any concerns let me know, although bringing up positive feedback and questions is equally as important in terms of discussing its potential and overall impact on the game.

I'm really impressed with the detail you've put into it - a lot more detail than I could put into something like this! - and I think this would work really well in the game! It's suitably balanced, and it allows a specifically investigative role to appear in all three superfactions. I would love to see this implemented for sure.

One quick question though... with the neutral order, where does the vampire fit in for it?

/support

Thank you for the positive feedback!

And that is a great question. I forgot to add it.

Now to think where Vampires should go on the list...*contemplating*

[RegyptianStrut]

Wow I feel like this one might actually get added. I like it.

Polymath sounds like a cool name. Genius could work too.

[Cenas4life]

Honestly, as of right now, I can think of no other suggestions that can help you.

I especially like the new dynamic the polymath would have on the game. It is entirely unique, and it is as neutral (and benign) as you can possibly get. It is also a huge target with its capabilities. It wouldn't be an easy win, and would require skill and great scum reading/reverse scum reading to do.

Although, I'd wonder if this role as of 8/9/2016 were implemented in the game, would players lynch it on the spot? Probably not, since all factions would want to use the polymath to their advantage. That is also another thing the polymath might rarely face.

Overall, awesome!

(Cannot think of constructive criticism at the moment).

Thank you for your positive feedback, and your positive points on the role are spot on, and i can see that you understand the role well.

And you bring up a good question. Obviously it differs for game modes, but in a normal ranked game, it is essentially not in the best interest for town to even remotely attempt to exploit the Polymath. And i use the term 'exploit' because there is no 'teaming up' with the Polymath. The reason why it is not in towns best interest is because of the alignment order, which was purposefully made to ensure that the role is an immediate threat to Town. There is no 'claiming polymath d1' or 'becoming town'. There is also no claiming Polymath for scum. This role is completely unique and its effects impact everyone, but starting with town.

The mafia, as discussed a bit earlier, has room to exploit the role and potentially not lynch/kill it, but with the alignment order, it forces mafia to target the Polymath potentially in the middle of the game. So while the mafia can exploit the role early, it will eventually have to get rid of it/find it unless they want their winning chances to decrease (if NK is alive). However, the Polymath's impact can vary, as it could also potentially inform the Witch of who the mafia is, which can be a good and bad thing. But is it worth the risk? The mafia have more room to strategist, although the Polymath poses as a threat nonetheless there. Note: The survivor may even get their hands on the information, causing them to decide and strategize on if they want to team up with the mafia or expose them and team up with town, or the NK, etc and etc. The strategy, implications and impacts of the identities leaked are as endless as one's imagination.

The Neutral alignment has a bit of a grey area, in that sense that Neutral Killings are essentially safe from exposure. However NE, NB and NC(will add) can be quite negatively impacted by their identity being leaked to town, as it could detrimentally decrease their chances of winning.

And this is not including all the dynamic changes that occur if an alignment is eliminated, in the sense that the information is leaked to the next alignment, so if all the neutrals are dead, a mafia identity being leaked to the town can be absolutely devastating, and so on and so on. The strategies and impact change as the circumstances unfold.

If you come up with any feedback that brings up any concerns let me know, although bringing up positive feedback and questions is equally as important in terms of discussing its potential and overall impact on the game.

I'm really impressed with the detail you've put into it - a lot more detail than I could put into something like this! - and I think this would work really well in the game! It's suitably balanced, and it allows a specifically investigative role to appear in all three superfactions. I would love to see this implemented for sure.

One quick question though... with the neutral order, where does the vampire fit in for it?

/support

Thank you for the positive feedback!

And that is a great question. I forgot to add it.

Now to think where Vampires should go on the list...*contemplating*

I would put the vampire above the witch and below the arsonist in priority.

[Skulomania]

Wow I feel like this one might actually get added. I like it.

Polymath sounds like a cool name. Genius could work too.

Thank you for your positive feedback. And i am glad you like the name.

I would put the vampire above the witch and below the arsonist in priority.

Yeah that is the most reasonable place i can think of putting it . But as with all the other roles, it is always subject to change.

Thanks for your advice.

[BPsycho2]

I think I now understand the role better, thanks to a combined effort from you, and TenNoOkami.

I do believe the Polymath should strive to be the most helpful, this will require remodeling.
Town
Mayor
Jailor
Retributionist (Town "Power")
Transporter
Bodyguard
Doctor
Investigator
Spy
Sheriff
Vigilante
Escort
Medium
Vampire Hunter

This is, in all senses, the Mafia's "hit list". If I miss anything, be sure to edit at your own discretion, kind sir.

And here's Mafia.
Godfather
Mafioso (Mafia Killing) (Right Hand)
Consigliere (Left Hand)
Janitor (Most powerful Mafia role)
Disguiser (Scapegoat)
Forger
Consort.

With neutrals, I've no idea what the order should be, but it shouldnt hurt the Mafia too much.
(I still don't see Vampire on the list, yet.)

[Skulomania]

I think I now understand the role better, thanks to a combined effort from you, and TenNoOkami.

I do believe the Polymath should strive to be the most helpful, this will require remodeling.
Town
Mayor
Jailor
Retributionist (Town "Power")
Transporter
Bodyguard
Doctor
Investigator
Spy
Sheriff
Vigilante
Escort
Medium
Vampire Hunter

This is, in all senses, the Mafia's "hit list". If I miss anything, be sure to edit at your own discretion, kind sir.

And here's Mafia.
Godfather
Mafioso (Mafia Killing) (Right Hand)
Consigliere (Left Hand)
Janitor (Most powerful Mafia role)
Disguiser (Scapegoat)
Forger
Consort.

With neutrals, I've no idea what the order should be, but it shouldnt hurt the Mafia too much.
(I still don't see Vampire on the list, yet.)

Thank you for your suggestions.

For town, I will keep the veteran high at the top(you fail to mention the vet) because it poses as a challenge for the Polymath and potentially punishes it for not finding the town's leader fast enough. However i do want to discuss a few roles. Do you feel the transporter should be above Town Protective, and why? And also, what do you think is more important, the veteran or the retributionist? I am debating between putting the veteran on top of the retributionist, or vice versa. Let me know what you think.

For mafia, you are missing a few roles but here is the current list. Let me know what roles you feel should be higher or lower.

- Godfather
- Mafioso
- Consigliere
- Blackmailer
- Janitor
- Framer
- Consort
- Forger
- Disguiser

For neutral, the current list currently is reasonable in the sense that it has the potential to negatively and positively impact the mafia(and neutral+town), however it also potentially can do nothing. By this i mean that, if the NK is the leader, the NK will not be exposed, which will not impact really anyone. The Neutral Killing however may not like that the Polymath may potentially know of his or her identity. If an NE(Witch in particular, although also other NE), it can potentially positively impact the mafia by having the witch the identity of a mafia. However this may also be a bad thing however. The executioner may pretend to be sheriff and get the mafia exposed person lynched and thus convince town to lynch his/her target, etc. If the NB is exposed, it can also force the survivor /amnesiac potentially to be exposed to town and thus team with town, or it may get the identity of mafia and either help them or use that information to gain town's trust, etc. So essentially it has possible negative and positive impacts. The impacts are quite endless, as it is up to the individual to decide what his/her strategy and next move will be. Keep in mind this is not taking into account if an alignment is eliminated and the information is leaked to the alignment after, which has whole new implications and impacts.

I have tried to ensure that the Polymath will always be considered a threat, and to every alignment. Ignore or fail to kill the Polymath, and the Polymath may make rounds around the alignment order exposing multiple leaders of each alignment. Do not kill/lynch the Polymath in time and you may have your identity leaked to someone who can kill you, etc. The implications are essentially as endless as one's imagination , as stated before.

If anyone else would like to chime in and give their opinions on the proposed questions stated above , feel free to. The more feedback the better.

*Also adding the vampire now, forgot x2*

[Cenas4life]

I would put the transporter above the TP roles, as I see the transporter as a powerful role that can be used for both protection and for killing. As for the Veteran and Retributionist, I think the veteran should take priority over the retrib as I like the concept that if those higher Town Roles are killed, that the polymath must risk a visit to the veteran to try and identify him. I also feel the veteran should go over the retrib, because I personally feel it is simply more impactful than the retributionsit.

[Skulomania]

I would put the transporter above the TP roles, as I see the transporter as a powerful role that can be used for both protection and for killing. As for the Veteran and Retributionist, I think the veteran should take priority over the retrib as I like the concept that if those higher Town Roles are killed, that the polymath must risk a visit to the veteran to try and identify him. I also feel the veteran should go over the retrib, because I personally feel it is simply more impactful than the retributionsit.

Yeah i can definitely see why transporter should be higher in the priority list ranking for town, and i agree about the veteran remarks. I will move transporter higher up and leave the veteran above the ret. Everything else though in the priority list ranking seems relatively fine, for now at least. If you feel that a certain role should be higher or lower, just let me know and i will definitely consider it.

[BPsycho2]

whoops.

Godfather
Mafioso (Mafia Killing) (Right Hand)
Consigliere (Left Hand)
Janitor (Most powerful Mafia role)
Disguiser (Scapegoat)
Blackmailer
Forger
Consort.

WAIT I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING.

THERE'S NO POINT GOING UNDER MAFIOSO, SINCE ONE OR THE OTHER WILL ALWAYS EXIST, SO THE OTHERS WILL FAIL TO BE MENTIONED AT ALL TIMES.

Eureka?