Shadowalker (Neutral Killing)

[simabean]

After further evaluation, I cannot support this role.

It's a hardcounter to Lookout.
It's a hardcounter to Bodyguard.

Those two reasons are enough for me to not like this role.

I can see two easy ways to fix both of these problems.
- Make it detectable by lookout when you kill your target's target.
- Make them effected as normal if their target is being bodyguarded.

If this change is made, I will fully support this role.

While these changes need to be made, preferably it should come with a minor advantage, that doesn't hardcounter any other roles.

[murat1996]

After further evaluation, I cannot support this role.

It's a hardcounter to Lookout.
It's a hardcounter to Bodyguard.

Those two reasons are enough for me to not like this role.

I can see two easy ways to fix both of these problems.
- Make it detectable by lookout when you kill your target's target.
- Make them effected as normal if their target is being bodyguarded.

If this change is made, I will fully support this role.

I think BMG said they don't want a role that completely nullifies the BG. So that's why I made it partial

[simabean]

Just make the BG work as normal on the target's target. Otherwise many attacks are unaffected. You visit the BG, who visits revealed mayor, guess who's dead. Just give the role an advantage, like bypassing night immunity. 2/3 of Neutral Killings do that anyway (though if there is a smaller advantage, it might be more appropriate.)

[Optimistia]

After further evaluation, I cannot support this role.

It's a hardcounter to Lookout.
It's a hardcounter to Bodyguard.

Those two reasons are enough for me to not like this role.

I can see two easy ways to fix both of these problems.
- Make it detectable by lookout when you kill your target's target.
- Make them effected as normal if their target is being bodyguarded.

If this change is made, I will fully support this role.

/support

[murat1996]

Just make the BG work as normal on the target's target. Otherwise many attacks are unaffected. You visit the BG, who visits revealed mayor, guess who's dead. Just give the role an advantage, like bypassing night immunity. 2/3 of Neutral Killings do that anyway (though if there is a smaller advantage, it might be more appropriate.)

Bypassing night immunity for a role that kills every night is OP. The BG immunity I have is fine, being complete immune would make sense in a way, because being killed when visiting someone that targets someone being visited by multiple BG can be bad.

However with complete immune to BG would mean that the only way to him would be by the hanging, jailor,arsonist ignition,werewolf and Veteran.

Does that make sense? Maybe.

After further evaluation, I cannot support this role.

It's a hardcounter to Lookout.
It's a hardcounter to Bodyguard.

Those two reasons are enough for me to not like this role.

I can see two easy ways to fix both of these problems.
- Make it detectable by lookout when you kill your target's target.
- Make them effected as normal if their target is being bodyguarded.

Wait, that's either one way or either one.

Another thing is what you mean on the second one?

[simabean]

Let me rephrase second one "target's target."
It ruins the point of BG if Shadowalker ignores them.
Bypassing night immunity was a suggestion, because I could find no other advantages. As I said, something less powerful would be more appropriate. I don't know what that advantage could be, but I was brainstorming. Bypassing TPs is only fair in extreme circumstances. Like in the way my Avenger only has one kill, so bypasses it.

[murat1996]

Let me rephrase second one "target's target."
It ruins the point of BG if Shadowalker ignores them.
Bypassing night immunity was a suggestion, because I could find no other advantages. As I said, something less powerful would be more appropriate. I don't know what that advantage could be, but I was brainstorming.

Second one you said effected like normal on bodyguarded targets, targets target was in the Lookout scenario.

[simabean]

You're just confusing me now. But I mean the target's target (the one being attacked) bodyguard would function as normal.

[murat1996]

You're just confusing me now. But I mean the target's target (the one being attacked) bodyguard would function as normal.

I guess, but I can't put in both.


Edit: which one do you prefer?

[simabean]

If you don't put in both, it still has the hardcounter problem. If I had to chose, add the lookout fix.

[Nellyfox]

If SW can be seen visiting who they shadow then keep it as that.
BG should be able to kill it.

Stop calling this RNG, it's not RNG.

[murat1996]

If SW can be seen visiting who they shadow then keep it as that.
BG should be able to kill it.

Stop calling this RNG, it's not RNG.

I think my brain is fried.

I see what your saying, but my brain can't process it x.x

Edit: the only thing I understand is to get rid of the partial BG immunity

[Nellyfox]

A - SW
B - Townie
C - Lookout
D - Bodyguard
E - Other role

A shadows B. B visits D. C watches B. C sees A visit B, A kills D.

D guards E. A shadows B. B visits E. A attacks E, D protects E, kills A.

Make sense? I think I did this right at least.

[murat1996]

A - SW
B - Townie
C - Lookout
D - Bodyguard
E - Other role

A shadows B. B visits D. C watches B. C sees A visit B, A kills D.

D guards E. A shadows B. B visits E. A attacks E, D protects E, kills A.

Make sense? I think I did this right at least.

Oh right.

Thats usually what I have here, my idea originally was that the sw can only die by a BG indirectly, rather then directly, but I can get rid of that if that's weird.

For lookout, technically the attributes only goes into affect when the sw visits someone to end up visit the Lookouts target, and not being seen.

It can technically be seen whether he attacks his directly or not, but I guess I need to change some things and add in additional info as well regarding this.

[murat1996]

Is this what you guys wanted?(the change on the OP)

Sorry for Double post, as no one posted on the bump originally -.-


Edit: tell me if its better or worse.

[Mxbro]

A few suggestions:
- Remove Night Immunity
- Detectable by lookout
- Killable by Bodyguard
- Change the name?

[murat1996]

A few suggestions:
- Remove Night Immunity
- Detectable by lookout
- Killable by Bodyguard
- Change the name?

1. Nk must have Night immunity, so no
2. I thought I did that :/
3. It can be killed by a third party BG.
4. No, the name stays.

[BPsycho2]

Best way to make this role completely fair would be to remove night immunity. It would still be a good role, even without it.

Last post got removed. boring

Either way, terrible idea. All NK's need night immunity to properly function.

Remember what happened to the Werewolf.

[murat1996]

Best way to make this role completely fair would be to remove night immunity. It would still be a good role, even without it.

Last post got removed. boring

Either way, terrible idea. All NK's need night immunity to properly function.

Remember what happened to the Werewolf.

WW started off as half night immunity until it was given full night immunity when Vamps and VH came up.


But that's irrelevant to this role.

[Mxbro]

Don't really like it to be honest. I don't see any point in it.

[murat1996]

Don't really like it to be honest. I don't see any point in it.

Why? Its perfectly fine.

[murat1996]

That moment that your original comment didn't get answered.......


Sorry for double post, but I had to get that a crossed :/

Nelly, your free to merge this comment, but I just had point something out.

[Scootalootaloo]

Special Attributes: Partial Bodyguard Immunity,Night immunity.

Can you explain why the bodyguard immunity is partial? from what I understand, under no circumstances would the BG be able to kill them.

=====================

In other news, I like the idea behind it. It feels like a mix of SK (one kill/night) and WW (kills based on who visits who). It's also a sort of NK lookout because you can tell who someone visited, but by following someone instead of seeing who comes to a certain player.
I like that all the aspects are, sorta kinda, pulled from various existing roles.

Now hypothetically (since ppl like recording wills as, for example, witch) someone would be able to tell that "Player X is immune because I visited them the same night the shadowwalker visited me, and they aren't dead." This is kinda a stretch but I know it would come up occasionally (such as someone knowing Player X is {sheriff or invest results here} based on the witch's will)

TL/DR I like the idea and these are some of the reasons I like it

[murat1996]

Special Attributes: Partial Bodyguard Immunity,Night immunity.

Can you explain why the bodyguard immunity is partial? from what I understand, under no circumstances would the BG be able to kill them.

=====================

In other news, I like the idea behind it. It feels like a mix of SK (one kill/night) and WW (kills based on who visits who). It's also a sort of NK lookout because you can tell who someone visited, but by following someone instead of seeing who comes to a certain player.
I like that all the aspects are, sorta kinda, pulled from various existing roles.

Now hypothetically (since ppl like recording wills as, for example, witch) someone would be able to tell that "Player X is immune because I visited them the same night the shadowwalker visited me, and they aren't dead." This is kinda a stretch but I know it would come up occasionally (such as someone knowing Player X is {sheriff or invest results here} based on the witch's will)

TL/DR I like the idea and these are some of the reasons I like it

Its partial, because the Bodyguard YOU target cannot guard their target. However, another BG can kill you.


Now originally I had a similar thing with the lookout, where it could NOT see the sw when the sw's target visited them, which I think should be there.

However, it depends on the community which they prefer.

(Still originally)Lookout can only see the SW, if they killed their initial target, or visit them in general and the the target didn't die.

However now I only have the BG there, although I'm still open to suggestions.

[murat1996]

That moment when you ask a question, and no one answers.

Again sorry for double posting