Politician (Neutral Evil)

[Kirize12]

I'll allow it, everyone's doing it so I might as well.

It's not like your role has competed yet anyways.

[Mace8937]

I'll allow it, everyone's doing it so I might as well.

It's not like your role has competed yet anyways.

Ok, thanks!

[ReEvolve]

I think this should be added however does it mean that if it is just you and one other person you can bribe them to vote against themselves?

[Blaze116]

Don't make any sorta poll with two yes options. It's just pointless because everyone who says no will click the bottom yes.

I support the role, not the poll.

[Kirize12]

Don't make any sorta poll with two yes options. It's just pointless because everyone who says no will click the bottom yes.

I support the role, not the poll.

It's not a poll, it's a petition.

[cxl1024]

Don't make any sorta poll with two yes options. It's just pointless because everyone who says no will click the bottom yes.

I support the role, not the poll.

It's not a poll, it's a petition.

Yeah but the title of the poll is a question so it's a little misleading. Hilary and Donald don't go around asking "Should I be voted for?" lol...

Mace, can you change it to "Vote to put this in the game."

[Mace8937]

Don't make any sorta poll with two yes options. It's just pointless because everyone who says no will click the bottom yes.

I support the role, not the poll.

It's not a poll, it's a petition.

Yeah but the title of the poll is a question so it's a little misleading. Hilary and Donald don't go around asking "Should I be voted for?" lol...

Mace, can you change it to "Vote to put this in the game."

Ok.

I think this should be added however does it mean that if it is just you and one other person you can bribe them to vote against themselves?

Uhhhh, you do know that you can't vote yourself up, right?
If it's just you and a Townie: Town wins. If it's you and a non-Town: Whatever role was left and you win.

[Cenas4life]

This role sounds quite interesting. I would however suggest making it a mafia role instead of a neutral role as I think that way it would be more effective. Since I overall like it though, /Support

[Mace8937]

This role sounds quite interesting. I would however suggest making it a mafia role instead of a neutral role as I think that way it would be more effective. Since I overall like it though, /Support

There's an argument about that on the first page. You could check it out and find out why it's better as Neutral Evil. If you still disagree with it being Neutral, I'll be here to agree to disagree.

[Skulomania]

The Politician is definitely better as Neutral Evil. With the quite uneventful and lacking NE roles currently in the game, i think this is an NE role that is quite needed in the game.

Most roles on the role-thread are good/fair, but only a few are actually needed and should be implemented in the game. This is one of those roles.

[Dylan6249]

This is a role that is confirmed to be in the card game. So maybe it will also be in the main game

http://cdn.crowdfundinsider.com/wp-cont ... alem-2.jpg

[Cenas4life]

This role sounds quite interesting. I would however suggest making it a mafia role instead of a neutral role as I think that way it would be more effective. Since I overall like it though, /Support

There's an argument about that on the first page. You could check it out and find out why it's better as Neutral Evil. If you still disagree with it being Neutral, I'll be here to agree to disagree.

After reading the posts on the first page, I agree that it should be a nuetral evil role. /More Support

[Kirize12]

This is a role that is confirmed to be in the card game. So maybe it will also be in the main game

http://cdn.crowdfundinsider.com/wp-cont ... alem-2.jpg

Did you even read the description?

[JazzMusicStops]

This is a role that is confirmed to be in the card game. So maybe it will also be in the main game

http://cdn.crowdfundinsider.com/wp-cont ... alem-2.jpg

If you read both roles you would know that they are completely different

[Mace8937]

I'm just going to put a message at the top of the OP that will be a reminder that this is not the Card Game's Politician.

The Politician is definitely better as Neutral Evil. With the quite uneventful and lacking NE roles currently in the game, i think this is an NE role that is quite needed in the game.

Most roles on the role-thread are good/fair, but only a few are actually needed and should be implemented in the game. This is one of those roles.

Thank you

[PoptartPresident]

Actually. I while back I came up with a Mafia role very similar to how this works. (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=44766&hilit=+Vote+Blocker)

I'd love it if you'd take my post into consideration, and try to compare it with your politician role.
Because I really believe someone with this similarish ability should be in the game.

Don't you think it'd be a good Mafia support role? (Please reply to this only if you read my post)

[Kirize12]

It's too powerful as Mafia Support.

[Mace8937]

In Ranked Mafia already have a confirmed 3-4 votes for their team (4 if the Any is Mafia).
Then add the extra daily vote from the Politician (If he is turned over to being Mafia). That's 4-5 five votes every single day! (Unless Politician is rb'ed)
There are 15 players in a regular game. With the Politician's extra vote, Mafia already has about/exactly 1/3 majority! And that fraction keeps increasing as they keep killing.

Let me just do some math:
So. With the maximum daily votes for the Mafia being 5 votes. 5/15.
With there being 3 Neutrals in the game. 3/15.
3/15 + 5/15 (If Amnesiac turns evil) = 8/15! Which gives the max amount of evil votes in Ranked majority over Town's votes.
If the Amne doesn't turn evil, it does give Town majority (8/15), but that will quickly change through the night with killings.
Like Kirize said, it would be way too powerful as Mafia. Giving it power it shouldn't.

[Drackzgull]

Excelent role idea, definitely should be added to game. I have just one small suggestion:

If you are forced to target yourself, the ability should just fail, because:
- You are already using the Neutral Evil slot, the presence of a Witch is quite unlikely. (in ranked)
- If there is a Witch anyway, they will almost never make you target yourself. Why would they ever unless just randomly and just once?
- If it was a Transporter that messed you up, then the Transporter did his job, and it's fair that they get you to fail.
- Conceptually it makes no sense to bribe yourself, your money is still your money. It makes even less sense to gain voting power from that.

Other than that this is pure perfection. /Support

[Mace8937]

Excelent role idea, definitely should be added to game. I have just one small suggestion:

If you are forced to target yourself, the ability should just fail, because:
- You are already using the Neutral Evil slot, the presence of a Witch is quite unlikely. (in ranked)
- If there is a Witch anyway, they will almost never make you target yourself. Why would they ever unless just randomly and just once?
- If it was a Transporter that messed you up, then the Transporter did his job, and it's fair that they get you to fail.
- Conceptually it makes no sense to bribe yourself, your money is still your money. It makes even less sense to gain voting power from that.

Other than that this is pure perfection. /Support

Witch: Witch would make you target yourself in case you're Jailor to execute whoever you are jailing. Make you kill yourself, if you have no NI and are able to kill. Arso to ignite. Werewolf to stay at home. etc. There's alot of people who do this if you might be one of these roles.
Last point: Balance > Lore

[Drackzgull]

Excelent role idea, definitely should be added to game. I have just one small suggestion:

If you are forced to target yourself, the ability should just fail, because:
- You are already using the Neutral Evil slot, the presence of a Witch is quite unlikely. (in ranked)
- If there is a Witch anyway, they will almost never make you target yourself. Why would they ever unless just randomly and just once?
- If it was a Transporter that messed you up, then the Transporter did his job, and it's fair that they get you to fail.
- Conceptually it makes no sense to bribe yourself, your money is still your money. It makes even less sense to gain voting power from that.

Other than that this is pure perfection. /Support

Witch: Witch would make you target yourself in case you're Jailor to execute whoever you are jailing. Make you kill yourself, if you have no NI and are able to kill. Arso to ignite. Werewolf to stay at home. etc. There's alot of people who do this if you might be one of these roles.
Last point: Balance > Lore

- To force the Jailor to execute someone the Witch must control them to target the jailed person, not themselves. Making them target themselves roleblocks the execution, but anyone except the jailed person works for that as well.
- Making you kill yourself is almost exclusively beneficial for the Witch if you're a Vigilante, and in that case it's far better to make the Vigilante kill another townie, except in very specific and uncommon late game scenarios where a Politician will almost never be suspected of being the Vigilante.
- An exception to the above is making a Mafioso kill themselves when there is no Godfather and the Witch is taking sides with the Neutral Killing. Again an uncommon late game scenario where the Politician won't be the suspect.
- Forcing a Werewolf to stay home is suicide, they will kill all visitors and the Witch will be one of them.
- Arsonist; that one is a good point.

As I mentioned the Politician is already using the Neutral Evil slot so there also being a Witch is unlikely on top of the unlikeliness of the scenarios where the Politician will be forced on himself by the Witch. I think balacing the possibility of being forced to target yourself around the Transporter far outweights balancing it around the Witch.

Balance > Lore indeed, but Lore still gets a little consideration after balance has been argumented, and I have.

[Mace8937]

Excelent role idea, definitely should be added to game. I have just one small suggestion:

If you are forced to target yourself, the ability should just fail, because:
- You are already using the Neutral Evil slot, the presence of a Witch is quite unlikely. (in ranked)
- If there is a Witch anyway, they will almost never make you target yourself. Why would they ever unless just randomly and just once?
- If it was a Transporter that messed you up, then the Transporter did his job, and it's fair that they get you to fail.
- Conceptually it makes no sense to bribe yourself, your money is still your money. It makes even less sense to gain voting power from that.

Other than that this is pure perfection. /Support

Witch: Witch would make you target yourself in case you're Jailor to execute whoever you are jailing. Make you kill yourself, if you have no NI and are able to kill. Arso to ignite. Werewolf to stay at home. etc. There's alot of people who do this if you might be one of these roles.
Last point: Balance > Lore

- Forcing a Werewolf to stay home is suicide, they will kill all visitors and the Witch will be one of them.

Balance > Lore indeed, but Lore still gets a little consideration after balance has been argumented, and I have.

(Just going to focus on these two points)
1. Suiciding might be worth it to get rid of a few important Townies. But it be gamethrowing, considering you have to survive to the end of the game. Then again, you are killing Townies, which is towards your wincon. But I agree, it's a stupid strategy. Unless you got outed after voting the previous day, and were going to die anyway.
2. However, Lore should not affect the Balance of a role.

[Drackzgull]

Spoiler:

Excelent role idea, definitely should be added to game. I have just one small suggestion:

If you are forced to target yourself, the ability should just fail, because:
- You are already using the Neutral Evil slot, the presence of a Witch is quite unlikely. (in ranked)
- If there is a Witch anyway, they will almost never make you target yourself. Why would they ever unless just randomly and just once?
- If it was a Transporter that messed you up, then the Transporter did his job, and it's fair that they get you to fail.
- Conceptually it makes no sense to bribe yourself, your money is still your money. It makes even less sense to gain voting power from that.

Other than that this is pure perfection. /Support

Witch: Witch would make you target yourself in case you're Jailor to execute whoever you are jailing. Make you kill yourself, if you have no NI and are able to kill. Arso to ignite. Werewolf to stay at home. etc. There's alot of people who do this if you might be one of these roles.
Last point: Balance > Lore

- Forcing a Werewolf to stay home is suicide, they will kill all visitors and the Witch will be one of them.

Balance > Lore indeed, but Lore still gets a little consideration after balance has been argumented, and I have.

(Just going to focus on these two points)
1. Suiciding might be worth it to get rid of a few important Townies. But it be gamethrowing, considering you have to survive to the end of the game. Then again, you are killing Townies, which is towards your wincon. But I agree, it's a stupid strategy. Unless you got outed after voting the previous day, and were going to die anyway.
2. However, Lore should not affect the Balance of a role.

You are correct on both points. However the lore is not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that I believe, for reasons I have explained, that when the Politician's ability is forced to be targeted on himself, making the ability fail is a more balanced solution than it's current state. The lore just so happens to agree with my posture.

[Mace8937]

Spoiler:

Excelent role idea, definitely should be added to game. I have just one small suggestion:

If you are forced to target yourself, the ability should just fail, because:
- You are already using the Neutral Evil slot, the presence of a Witch is quite unlikely. (in ranked)
- If there is a Witch anyway, they will almost never make you target yourself. Why would they ever unless just randomly and just once?
- If it was a Transporter that messed you up, then the Transporter did his job, and it's fair that they get you to fail.
- Conceptually it makes no sense to bribe yourself, your money is still your money. It makes even less sense to gain voting power from that.

Other than that this is pure perfection. /Support

Witch: Witch would make you target yourself in case you're Jailor to execute whoever you are jailing. Make you kill yourself, if you have no NI and are able to kill. Arso to ignite. Werewolf to stay at home. etc. There's alot of people who do this if you might be one of these roles.
Last point: Balance > Lore

- Forcing a Werewolf to stay home is suicide, they will kill all visitors and the Witch will be one of them.

Balance > Lore indeed, but Lore still gets a little consideration after balance has been argumented, and I have.

(Just going to focus on these two points)
1. Suiciding might be worth it to get rid of a few important Townies. But it be gamethrowing, considering you have to survive to the end of the game. Then again, you are killing Townies, which is towards your wincon. But I agree, it's a stupid strategy. Unless you got outed after voting the previous day, and were going to die anyway.
2. However, Lore should not affect the Balance of a role.

You are correct on both points. However the lore is not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that I believe, for reasons I have explained, that when the Politician's ability is forced to be targeted on himself, making the ability fail is a more balanced solution than it's current state. The lore just so happens to agree with my posture.

However, why would the Politician not be able to do his ability when Witched/Transported to himself when other roles can?
Killing, going on alert, checking if vampire (useless, but still happens), blackmailing, cleaning, etc.
It seems unfair if the Politician is targeted to himself and it does nothing, when other roles have to deal with the consequences/time wasting of targeting themselves.

[Drackzgull]

Spoiler:

Excelent role idea, definitely should be added to game. I have just one small suggestion:

If you are forced to target yourself, the ability should just fail, because:
- You are already using the Neutral Evil slot, the presence of a Witch is quite unlikely. (in ranked)
- If there is a Witch anyway, they will almost never make you target yourself. Why would they ever unless just randomly and just once?
- If it was a Transporter that messed you up, then the Transporter did his job, and it's fair that they get you to fail.
- Conceptually it makes no sense to bribe yourself, your money is still your money. It makes even less sense to gain voting power from that.

Other than that this is pure perfection. /Support

Witch: Witch would make you target yourself in case you're Jailor to execute whoever you are jailing. Make you kill yourself, if you have no NI and are able to kill. Arso to ignite. Werewolf to stay at home. etc. There's alot of people who do this if you might be one of these roles.
Last point: Balance > Lore

- Forcing a Werewolf to stay home is suicide, they will kill all visitors and the Witch will be one of them.

Balance > Lore indeed, but Lore still gets a little consideration after balance has been argumented, and I have.

(Just going to focus on these two points)
1. Suiciding might be worth it to get rid of a few important Townies. But it be gamethrowing, considering you have to survive to the end of the game. Then again, you are killing Townies, which is towards your wincon. But I agree, it's a stupid strategy. Unless you got outed after voting the previous day, and were going to die anyway.
2. However, Lore should not affect the Balance of a role.

You are correct on both points. However the lore is not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that I believe, for reasons I have explained, that when the Politician's ability is forced to be targeted on himself, making the ability fail is a more balanced solution than it's current state. The lore just so happens to agree with my posture.

However, why would the Politician not be able to do his ability when Witched/Transported to himself when other roles can?
Killing, going on alert, checking if vampire (useless, but still happens), blackmailing, cleaning, etc.
It seems unfair if the Politician is targeted to himself and it does nothing, when other roles have to deal with the consequences/time wasting of targeting themselves.

Because the ability of the Politician is stealing someone's vote, if you steal your own vote then you only get your vote, the way you have it it becomes an entirely different ability when used on yourself, duplicating the target's (you) vote instead of stealing it. The Bodyguard is a good example of a similar case, if as a Bodyguard you're forced to target yourself then you get forced to use your vest, if you don't have your vest anymore then you just fail, you don't get to guard yourself, and potentially sacrifice yourself to protect yourself killing your attacker. True, the Bodyguard's vest is a different ability than the one he uses on others, but so is the Politician's, the difference is the Politician can't use this alternate ability unless he's forced to.

EDIT: I actually just thought of a better alternative than just making it fail. Make it disable your LeftBox to cast your vote, while making your RightBox comandeer your vote. This way the ability can be forced on yourself, and it's the same ability you use on anyone else.